DonLever Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Give me a break. There is no us vs them. Were all in the same boat together. it's a matter of coming to an established country and learning the way the citizens of that country operate on a daily basis. We are one of if not the most accepting country towards others and their beliefs, ways of life etc. but we as citizens should not be changing our ways of life or bending to make it easier for new Canadians to adapt to our society. We have several programs that reach out to new Canadians to help them learn our languages, laws etc. all on tax payer money. There is really no excuse for immigrants to not be able to speak our languages and function in our society. When you have a worthwhile response let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Common sense Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Give me a break. There is no us vs them. Were all in the same boat together. it's a matter of coming to an established country and learning the way the citizens of that country operate on a daily basis. We are one of if not the most accepting country towards others and their beliefs, ways of life etc. but we as citizens should not be changing our ways of life or bending to make it easier for new Canadians to adapt to our society. We have several programs that reach out to new Canadians to help them learn our languages, laws etc. all on tax payer money. There is really no excuse for immigrants to not be able to speak our languages and function in our society. When you have a worthwhile response let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Disgusted by it, TBH. That's saying something because I'm Asian and identify as a Canadian ONLY, even if I do speak the languages. Surely there's something in the Charter regarding discrimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dral Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Don't understand the signs because they are in another language? There's an app for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 here's an article about Quebec trying to ban the word pasta on Italian menus etc. Quebec language police try to ban 'pasta' from Italian restaurant menu http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/01/quebec-language-police-ban-pasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimito Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 more interesting reads: "Joey Kwan, Aberdeen's promotion and public relations manager, noted to The Vancouver Sun this year: "To our surprise, based on an internal research, 70 per cent of the existing tenants don’t even have a Chinese name on their signage." In January, Joe Greenholtz, an immigration consultant and member of the Richmond Intercultural Advisory Committee argued that Chinese-only signage had nothing to do with multiculturalism and everything to do with business. He wrote in The Richmond News: "The store owners are making a statement about the clientele they hope to attract — most of the stores I’ve wandered into with Chinese-only signs sell products that have no appeal for me and that I often can’t even identify. It’s not about exclusionary practices, it’s a business decision about appealing to a defined demographic. Those who take offense at that, hiding behind the idea that it is somehow un-Canadian, or diminishes the capacity of immigrants to integrate, are feeling the pain of being irrelevant in their own backyards, for the first time." from: http://www.huffingto...ref=mostpopular The video on Quebec Bill 101/ language police at the bottom the link is worth while watching. Sign language reflects business By Joe Greenholtz, Special to the Richmond News http://www.richmond-...l#ixzz2NefSC1bz "Richmond’s Intercultural Advisory Committee was asked to look at the signage issue a few years ago and again last year. This time around, instead of debating only what are essentially ideological arguments, we commissioned an informal survey among RCMP officers in Richmond to find out whether there were any public safety implications. It turns out not having English signage makes it more difficult for police to respond to a call. The same would presumably be true for fire and ambulance services. Now that is an issue that bears further investigation and might justify a requirement for mandatory English signage. The red herring of tough love to help immigrants integrate does not. Quebec had to invoke the notwithstanding clause in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to pass its language law, making it clear that imposing language requirements is not a defense of Canadian values — quite the opposite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Give me a break. There is no us vs them. Were all in the same boat together. it's a matter of coming to an established country and learning the way the citizens of that country operate on a daily basis. We are one of if not the most accepting country towards others and their beliefs, ways of life etc. but we as citizens should not be changing our ways of life or bending to make it easier for new Canadians to adapt to our society. We have several programs that reach out to new Canadians to help them learn our languages, laws etc. all on tax payer money. There is really no excuse for immigrants to not be able to speak our languages and function in our society. When you have a worthwhile response let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 here's an article about Quebec trying to ban the word pasta on Italian menus etc. Quebec language police try to ban 'pasta' from Italian restaurant menu http://www.guardian....olice-ban-pasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 more interesting reads: "Joey Kwan, Aberdeen's promotion and public relations manager, noted to The Vancouver Sun this year: "To our surprise, based on an internal research, 70 per cent of the existing tenants don’t even have a Chinese name on their signage." In January, Joe Greenholtz, an immigration consultant and member of the Richmond Intercultural Advisory Committee argued that Chinese-only signage had nothing to do with multiculturalism and everything to do with business. He wrote in The Richmond News: "The store owners are making a statement about the clientele they hope to attract — most of the stores I’ve wandered into with Chinese-only signs sell products that have no appeal for me and that I often can’t even identify. It’s not about exclusionary practices, it’s a business decision about appealing to a defined demographic. Those who take offense at that, hiding behind the idea that it is somehow un-Canadian, or diminishes the capacity of immigrants to integrate, are feeling the pain of being irrelevant in their own backyards, for the first time." from: http://www.huffingto...ref=mostpopular The video on Quebec Bill 101/ language police at the bottom the link is worth while watching. Sign language reflects business By Joe Greenholtz, Special to the Richmond News http://www.richmond-...l#ixzz2NefSC1bz "Richmond’s Intercultural Advisory Committee was asked to look at the signage issue a few years ago and again last year. This time around, instead of debating only what are essentially ideological arguments, we commissioned an informal survey among RCMP officers in Richmond to find out whether there were any public safety implications. It turns out not having English signage makes it more difficult for police to respond to a call. The same would presumably be true for fire and ambulance services. Now that is an issue that bears further investigation and might justify a requirement for mandatory English signage. The red herring of tough love to help immigrants integrate does not. Quebec had to invoke the notwithstanding clause in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to pass its language law, making it clear that imposing language requirements is not a defense of Canadian values — quite the opposite." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 What you are talking about is assimulation. If we follow your logic, we should adapt to the aboriginal culture, who were here first, rather than imposing our culture on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggernut Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 To all the "live and let live" people, are you all for unobstructed free movement worldwide, and the freedom for Joe American/Canadian Whitey to relocate to any part of Asia or Africa and live entirely by his own ways without any regard for local language, culture or customs? If you're consistent on this, then you have a valid argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodBadUgly Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Eh, just leave it as is. I like to think I'm travelling to mainland China on my way home every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 To all the "live and let live" people, are you all for unobstructed free movement worldwide, and the freedom for Joe American/Canadian Whitey to relocate to any part of Asia or Africa and live entirely by his own ways without any regard for local language, culture or customs? If you're consistent on this, then you have a valid argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverpig Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 To all the "live and let live" people, are you all for unobstructed free movement worldwide, and the freedom for Joe American/Canadian Whitey to relocate to any part of Asia or Africa and live entirely by his own ways without any regard for local language, culture or customs? If you're consistent on this, then you have a valid argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Private businesses should be able to write in whatever language they want. It isn't like you're going into the voting booth in Richmond and all options and instructions are written in Mandarin. Businesses do many things to cater to specific populations. I'm not going to get up in arms about a 'women's only' gym. That business is making that specific strategic decision and it is their right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffi Torres's Smirk Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 ...It may feel abnormal to some that have never lived outside of where they grew up, but trust me it is felt and experienced in every major city throughout the world. Latin quarter, French quarter, Italian, Greek, Irish, Chinese, hipster etc etc etc. Once you get used to it you will begin to see the beauty in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockout Casualty Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Strange, I don't see anyone suggesting we adopt Quebec-style language laws, yet it keeps being mentioned as some kind of end-all argument against language laws. I am yet to read why regulating businesses to have English signage is bad. In Canada, we are all from different backgrounds, but English and French unify us all. Not having English is a round-about way of avoiding every other nationality. How's that different than putting up a sign "Chinese Only"? It would be bad if all minorities started behaving in this way, so why should anyone be permitted? I'm confident that every group that immigrates here has apprehensions about the locals, bordering on racism. My culture has it, and I know it's the same in cultures far removed from mine, including Chinese. This is what is being served by shops that cater to a particular segment of our city's population. Also we're yet to read of benefits of having Chinese only signs in large swaths of our city? I can see it benefiting newly arrived immigrants, sure, not that they would be hurt by a little English. It also serves the cash-only businesses who no doubt skim on the taxes. It makes it easy to hire FOBs who don't speak English and don't know the pay they get is pennies, nor the labor laws... just in case. It's the case in my culture, and it's sure as hell the case in other cultures where corruption permeates every level of society. It's good the government regulates smoking inside businesses though. Can't have a place where non-smokers aren't welcome, can we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetcoaster Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Strange, I don't see anyone suggesting we adopt Quebec-style language laws, yet it keeps being mentioned as some kind of end-all argument against language laws. I am yet to read why regulating businesses to have English signage is bad. In Canada, we are all from different backgrounds, but English and French unify us all. Not having English is a round-about way of avoiding every other nationality. How's that different than putting up a sign "Chinese Only"? It would be bad if all minorities started behaving in this way, so why should anyone be permitted? I'm confident that every group that immigrates here has apprehensions about the locals, bordering on racism. My culture has it, and I know it's the same in cultures far removed from mine, including Chinese. This is what is being served by shops that cater to a particular segment of our city's population. Also we're yet to read of benefits of having Chinese only signs in large swaths of our city? I can see it benefiting newly arrived immigrants, sure, not that they would be hurt by a little English. It also serves the cash-only businesses who no doubt skim on the taxes. It makes it easy to hire FOBs who don't speak English and don't know the pay they get is pennies, nor the labor laws... just in case. It's the case in my culture, and it's sure as hell the case in other cultures where corruption permeates every level of society. It's good the government regulates smoking inside businesses though. Can't have a place where non-smokers aren't welcome, can we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 There is a need to separate the two issues, IMHO. 1) Lack of signage in an official language. 2) Government regulation of the topic. There are more ways to exert pressure on businesses who do not practice inclusionary signage and service than simply not being a paying customer or requiring legislation. The practise should be a social taboo, in my opinion, and it behooves the population who are being excluded by another to publicly decry those who do. Negative publicity can have a great affect on social change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonLever Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 It seems a lot of people are worked up over nothing. Or in other words, making a mountain out of a molehole. It is really the businesses who advertise only in Chinese are the ones who suffer because they are losing sales by catering to one group. So why are people so upset? Veiled racism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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