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Chinese Signs Out Of Hand in Richmond Says Petition


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#121 inane

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:36 PM

It seems a lot of people are worked up over nothing. Or in other words, making a mountain out of a molehole.

It is really the businesses who advertise only in Chinese are the ones who suffer because they are losing sales by catering to one group.

So why are people so upset? Veiled racism?


Yeah, who cares. I know if I go by a place and the signs are entirely in Chinese, I won't go there.

People like to pretend like Vancouver/GVRD is so diverse, it used to be but not so much anymore...
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#122 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

There is a need to separate the two issues, IMHO.

1) Lack of signage in an official language.
2) Government regulation of the topic.

There are more ways to exert pressure on businesses who do not practice inclusionary signage and service than simply not being a paying customer or requiring legislation.

The practise should be a social taboo, in my opinion, and it behooves the population who are being excluded by another to publicly decry those who do. Negative publicity can have a great affect on social change.


I don't see a single Chinese small business owner who caters to his nationality exclusively giving any amount of a damn about what social taboos are in place. They not only preserve their language, but their own social customs and taboos.


It seems a lot of people are worked up over nothing. Or in other words, making a mountain out of a molehole.

It is really the businesses who advertise only in Chinese are the ones who suffer because they are losing sales by catering to one group.

So why are people so upset? Veiled racism?


Yes, totally. This thread is chock-full of neo-Nazis.


Regulation of commercial speech contravenes the Charter's guarantee of freedom of expression as the SCOC has noted. In the case of the French language on signs it had to do with the preservation of French language and culture being overwhelmed so in that case it was a reasonable limitation.

The same argument does not apply in this case.


So it's really a charter issue. Good to know it's never going to change then. Suppose I'll avoid larger and larger parts of Richmond as the city grows and signs along with it.

I'm taking my racism to Surrey.
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#123 Hamhuis Hipcheck

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:40 PM

The amount of racism is strong in this thread.
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#124 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:43 PM

The amount of racism is strong in this thread.


Why do you think they renamed White noise to cultimultural? Too many skinheads.
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#125 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

Yeah, who cares. I know if I go by a place and the signs are entirely in Chinese, I won't go there.


And this should be the action of anyone who has a problem with a business' signage. Not starting a petition and trying to get government wasting time and resources where it is totally unnecessary...
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#126 Jaimito

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

<p>

<br />
It seems a lot of people are worked up over nothing.  Or in other words, making a mountain out of a molehole.<br />
<br />
It is really the businesses who advertise only in Chinese are the ones who suffer because they are losing sales by catering to one group.<br />
<br />
So why are people so upset?  Veiled racism?

that's the sense I get. But there are people with way too much time on their hands. The ladies forming petition been working on it for a yr or so.

some guy in the above post about taxes or hiring FOBs, talk like that reminds of the racists I met growing in the 80's Vancouver. People in class calling u a refugee etc.
He obviously doesn't see those immigrants now coming here by first class air and driving Ferraris and Bentleys, and paying millions in taxes. They hate u when ur poor or rich.
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#127 Hamhuis Hipcheck

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:56 PM

It's like we're trying to assimilate everyone like the USA, instead of being what defines Canada, multicultural and accepting.
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#128 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

<p>
that's the sense I get. But there are people with way too much time on their hands. The ladies forming petition been working on it for a yr or so.

some guy in the above post about taxes or hiring FOBs, talk like that reminds of the racists I met growing in the 80's Vancouver. People in class calling u a refugee etc.
He obviously doesn't see those immigrants now coming here by first class air and driving Ferraris and Bentleys, and paying millions in taxes. They hate u when ur poor or rich.


:lol:

FOB is something us immigrants that grew up here use to describe newly arrived immigrants, of any nationality. And if you think those cash businesses declare every nickle, let me laugh twice as hard.

:lol: :lol:
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#129 theminister

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

And this should be the action of anyone who has a problem with a business' signage. Not starting a petition and trying to get government wasting time and resources where it is totally unnecessary...


These are not the only two options.

Starting a public debate and dialectic on the issue from Richmond residents may make small but noticeable changes in new businesses and business associations.

You can help the owners consider their bottom line in more ways than not shopping there.

One way would be to shop at those that display both and to personally thank them for doing so.

If people are aware that it is becoming a hot button topic then the forward thinkers will understand the benefits of not limiting their market. It maybe that some businesses have never really even thought that much about it, not knowing that residents of other cultures maybe interested in being a customer.
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#130 Electro Rock

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

Anyone can see its not a good thing for the average person when a powerful ethnic bloc with an agenda takes over a city, whether its Chinese in the Lower Mainland, Cubans in Miami, Mexicans in the border states or whatever.

I have 3 Chinese friends, who are all fairly recent immigrants, and they tell me straight out that the way things are going here are not to the benefit of those born and raised here.
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#131 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

These are not the only two options.

Starting a public debate and dialectic on the issue from Richmond residents may make small but noticeable changes in new businesses and business associations.

You can help the owners consider their bottom line in more ways than not shopping there.

One way would be to shop at those that display both and to personally thank them for doing so.

If people are aware that it is becoming a hot button topic then the forward thinkers will understand the benefits of not limiting their market. It maybe that some businesses have never really even thought that much about it, not knowing that residents of other cultures maybe interested in being a customer.


A little more proactive than my solution, but the main point I was trying to make is that dragging the government into it is unnecessary.
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#132 theminister

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:24 PM

A little more proactive than my solution, but the main point I was trying to make is that dragging the government into it is unnecessary.


I agree.

My point is that, regardless of the above stated opinion, it is a real issue in our society if we truly want to be progressive. Stating such does not make one a racist in any way, shape or form.

Turning a blind eye to the divisiveness, as it's a highly emotional topic, benefits no one.
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#133 theminister

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

It's like we're trying to assimilate everyone like the USA, instead of being what defines Canada, multicultural and accepting.


Is this not a two way street?
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#134 Hamhuis Hipcheck

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

Is this not a two way street?


Common mistake but not excusable. :P (Points to who knows where that's from)

Canada: Mosaic. Everyone is a part of the picture, yet different culture/people still have their identity.
USA: Melting pot. Everyone is forced into the "American" culture regardless of background.

Edited by Hamhuis Hipcheck, 18 March 2013 - 01:41 PM.

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#135 theminister

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:48 PM

Common mistake but not excusable. :P (Points to who knows where that's from)

Canada: Mosaic. Everyone is a part of the picture, yet different culture/people still have their identity.
USA: Melting pot. Everyone must be forced into the "American" culture regardless of background.


You fundamentally misunderstand my post.

Multiculturalism is not an excuse for self ghettoisation.
The Charter that Wet has posted many times underlines commitment to official languages.

We are not talking about cultural freedom. We are not talking about race. We are talking about exclusionary practices.


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#136 Wetcoaster

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 01:59 PM

You fundamentally misunderstand my post.

Multiculturalism is not an excuse for self ghettoisation.
The Charter that Wet has posted many times underlines commitment to official languages.

We are not talking about cultural freedom. We are not talking about race. We are talking about exclusionary practices.

No we are talking about freedom of expression as the SCOC pointed out in Ford v. Quebec.

The status of English as an official language does not compel people to speak it nor use it as is clearly set out:

AND WHEREAS the Constitution of Canada and the Official Languages Act provide that English and French are the official languages of Canada and neither abrogates nor derogates from any rights or privileges acquired or enjoyed with respect to any other language


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#137 DaMacNamedDre

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:18 PM

Put the sign in English but i'm still not eating dog.

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Edited by DaMacNamedDre, 18 March 2013 - 02:19 PM.

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#138 Common sense

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:24 PM

Put the sign in English but i'm still not eating dog.

Posted Image


I have yet to see one Richmond restaurant serve dog. If there's this much uproar over something like shark fin, imagine the field day PETA will have over canine.
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#139 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:28 PM

Put the sign in English but i'm still not eating dog.

Posted Image


That looks delicious.
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#140 Imuzi

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 02:29 PM

I rarely spend any time in Richmond seeing as how it's really out of my way so I can't really comment on the issue of the signage.

Although someone suggested that there was a "Chinese only" restaurant or something and while I severely doubt that such a place exists that just ain't right.
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#141 Jägermeister

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:16 PM

I really don't see how people wanting businesses to include an official language of our country in addition to the business owners native language is seen as racist or an attempt to assimilate them.

For the record, I don't care if businesses don't have English signage.
However I would think it is a questionable business decision to effectively exclude a significant proportion of the population.

Edited by Jägermeister, 18 March 2013 - 04:27 PM.

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#142 theminister

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:24 PM

No we are talking about freedom of expression as the SCOC pointed out in Ford v. Quebec.

The status of English as an official language does not compel people to speak it nor use it as is clearly set out:

AND WHEREAS the Constitution of Canada and the Official Languages Act provide that English and French are the official languages of Canada and neither abrogates nor derogates from any rights or privileges acquired or enjoyed with respect to any other language


You are only looking at it from a legal perspective.

I am advocating a social response.
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#143 debluvscanucks

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:02 PM

And this should be the action of anyone who has a problem with a business' signage.


So what if everyone adopts this philosophy then? If you don't like it, don't come? Doesn't it go against everything we're trying desperately to avoid? That, to me, is a big step backward. Is it not?

Do we not lose the "multi" part if we all can't participate together? Is exclusion and segregation a direction we really want to head (back) to? That's what this leads to.

It's not racist to want to join in. It's not racist to stand up against an attitude that says "I don't care - if you don't like it don't come here...it's my property and I'll do as I please". That's not something we should adopt...it isn't the "Canadian" way. The Canadian way is to share a sense of "community" that everyone can enjoy, but this does little to support that.

I'm tired of people using the "veiled racism" card. How about applying it to those who really don't care to cater to anyone but their own? Do you not see that you're being hypocrites in not applying your thinking across the board. So Chinese people who come without any intention or desire to assimilate, communicate, or associate with anyone aren't being "racist"? Give me a break...it's a two sided coin. Maybe we should change the city welcome from "Island City by Nature" to "If You Don't Like It, Don't Come"?

Honestly, that's what you're suggesting? That's in the best interest of the residents? No, it's not.

Seriously - don't throw out the "veiled racist" BS unless you are applying it across the board and have the same standards for all. The day I can say "sorry, if you don't like it don't come" without being called a racist is the day I'll accept the same in return. That isn't the case, so I rest mine. Not a bone of racism in my body...I just like fair treatment for all. I have lived here my entire life and have never seen this before...it isn't about positive change, or I'd be on board. The day I'm being sent the message "go elsewhere" is a sorry day indeed.

I want Richmond to continue to be a place where we know our neighbours. Where we gather at places as friends, not have to avoid them because we're unsure. I don't think my way of thinking is wrong. Most of my friend/neighbours and people I do business with are Chinese. And they, too, express the same feelings. Hell, you only need scroll through to see that many here in support of this ARE Chinese people. So they're "racist"? C'mon, come up with something more creative.
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#144 inane

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:17 PM

So what if everyone adopts this philosophy then? If you don't like it, don't come? Doesn't it go against everything we're trying desperately to avoid? That, to me, is a big step backward. Is it not?

Do we not lose the "multi" part if we all can't participate together? Is exclusion and segregation a direction we really want to head (back) to? That's what this leads to.

It's not racist to want to join in. It's not racist to stand up against an attitude that says "I don't care - if you don't like it don't come here...it's my property and I'll do as I please". That's not something we should adopt...it isn't the "Canadian" way. The Canadian way is to share a sense of "community" that everyone can enjoy, but this does little to support that.

I'm tired of people using the "veiled racism" card. How about applying it to those who really don't care to cater to anyone but their own? Do you not see that you're being hypocrites in not applying your thinking across the board. So Chinese people who come without any intention or desire to assimilate, communicate, or associate with anyone aren't being "racist"? Give me a break...it's a two sided coin. Maybe we should change the city welcome from "Island City by Nature" to "If You Don't Like It, Don't Come"?

Honestly, that's what you're suggesting? That's in the best interest of the residents? No, it's not.

Seriously - don't throw out the "veiled racist" BS unless you are applying it across the board and have the same standards for all. The day I can say "sorry, if you don't like it don't come" without being called a racist is the day I'll accept the same in return. That isn't the case, so I rest mine. Not a bone of racism in my body...I just like fair treatment for all. I have lived here my entire life and have never seen this before...it isn't about positive change, or I'd be on board. The day I'm being sent the message "go elsewhere" is a sorry day indeed.

I want Richmond to continue to be a place where we know our neighbours. Where we gather at places as friends, not have to avoid them because we're unsure. I don't think my way of thinking is wrong. Most of my friend/neighbours and people I do business with are Chinese. And they, too, express the same feelings. Hell, you only need scroll through to see that many here in support of this ARE Chinese people. So they're "racist"? C'mon, come up with something more creative.


From a business stand point, that's how capitalism works. You don't like how they are advertising the product? Don't buy it.

From a multi-culturalism/inclusion stand point, I think it's failing in Metro Van. It's just turning into ghettoization at this point.
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#145 Common sense

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:20 PM

I really don't see how people wanting businesses to include an official language of our country in addition to the business owners native language is seen as racist or an attempt to assimilate them.


IMO, the petitioners aren't racist; they're simply misguided and misled to believe that English should be the langua franca when a majority of Richmondites are ethnically Chinese and speak either Cantonese or Mandarin as their primary language.

What is borderline racist are some of the posts here - the ones that say "we as citizens should not be changing our ways of life or bending to make it easier for new Canadians to adapt to our society." It hints to a desire to go back to a time before Chinese immigrants made Richmond their home and the town a majority Caucasian place
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#146 debluvscanucks

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

IMO, the petitioners aren't racist; they're simply misguided and misled to believe that English should be the langua franca when a majority of Richmondites are ethnically Chinese and speak either Cantonese or Mandarin as their primary language.

What is borderline racist are some of the posts here - the ones that say "we as citizens should not be changing our ways of life or bending to make it easier for new Canadians to adapt to our society." It hints to a desire to go back to a time before Chinese immigrants made Richmond their home and the town a majority Caucasian place


Did you read my posts? The ones that state that Steveston was a good percentage (majority) of Japanese people when I was growing up in a Japanese fishing village? No one had a problem and it has nothing, at all, to do with "caucasian"...that's just convenient for you to throw out there in order to ignore the facts. We had Japanese gardens (Garry Point has retained some of that feel), a Buddhist Church (that I frequented at times with friends) and Japanese Cultural Center that are still there/in use. The main grocer was run by a lovely Japanese couple ("Steve" & "Shirley") who sold candy, groceries and meat (lol). So don't tell me it's about "wanting to keep it caucasian". Bullocks (I think?). I never even knew that we were different in any way, because I was raised that way. We were neighbours. "Family". Our best friends next door were Japanese and, to this day, my Dad boasts the gardening tips that his best friend, Yuki, taught him. So to suggest this nonsense about wanting to "keep" anything other than a united sense of community is garbage and misinformed. Again - the convenient argument, but it doesn't make it true. It angers me...don't paint a picture that is based on a lack of information. I have never had a shred of racism in me, however, I'm learning quickly through this new thinking that doesn't embrace or welcome me and says "you don't have to come here". WTH is that? Don't tell me I have to support that kind of thinking, because I won't.

To further clarify - it's not people with another language as a "primary" language...it's the sole language. With no desire to change that. How about addressing that refusal to "bend" or leave behind the desire to stay with what they know?

You don't just turn "racist" overnight...it's either there or it's not. This hasn't been the climate in Richmond, so what's changed? Suddenly, overnight everyone lost all tolerance? Took a pill that made them start hating? No. The sense of "community" and "unity" is being threatened and, of coure, there will be a reaction to that. Join in. Welcome us, we'll welcome you and we'll continue to have the best place ever together. That's my message. I don't like hearing this "go someplace else" crap. It doesn't support this sense of community.

Going to back away for a bit, as the point is obviously lost on some here who have tunnel vision.
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#147 My Account

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 04:58 PM

He is incapable of looking at anything from a moral/social perspective. The guys like a robot spouting out case law and never actually providing his own opinion on a subject. The only exception is when he tells you you're stupid for trying to look at things another way.


I agree but I still love his legal input he adds more to a thread than most
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#148 Lockhart

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:07 PM

We should just stop letting unskilled immigrants in the country.
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#149 Machine Gun Kelly

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:19 PM

I'm all for multi-culturalism, but when I go to a major Canadian city, and I feel like I'm in a foreign country, I don't think that's fair.
I thought that's what China town was for?
I'm not to fond of the fact I cant read half of the signs in a Canadian city, I'm fully for the half of the sign must be in French or English, and then the other half can be in whatever, IMO a requirement of immigration should be knowledge of the language of English, or French ( Writing, reading)
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#150 Raffi Torres's Smirk

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 05:56 PM

Deb, I like where you're coming from and I understand how valuable a great community can be, and that you see this petition as a couple people just trying to keep their community awesome. Thats great.

The thing is, this kind of change cannot come from the top down. Instead of petitioning the City to do something about it, they should be showing these business owners the list of people that would be at their store if they had some english signage. Unless someone is being hurt, exploited, or anything else that would be an offence in civil or criminal court there is nothing the government should do.

This is a social matter, and if lasting change is the goal, it cannot be mandated. If that route has been tried, than might I suggest running for city council, for if it is an issue the majority of citizens care about they will make it known then. But right now it's looking like you are in the minority (not on this board, but in Richmond).
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