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Chinese Signs Out Of Hand in Richmond Says Petition


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#151 Common sense

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:00 PM

Did you read my posts? The ones that state that Steveston was a good percentage (majority) of Japanese people when I was growing up in a Japanese fishing village? No one had a problem and it has nothing, at all, to do with "caucasian"...that's just convenient for you to throw out there in order to ignore the facts. We had Japanese gardens (Garry Point has retained some of that feel), a Buddhist Church (that I frequented at times with friends) and Japanese Cultural Center that are still there/in use. The main grocer was run by a lovely Japanese couple ("Steve" & "Shirley") who sold candy, groceries and meat (lol). So don't tell me it's about "wanting to keep it caucasian". Bullocks (I think?). I never even knew that we were different in any way, because I was raised that way. We were neighbours. "Family". Our best friends next door were Japanese and, to this day, my Dad boasts the gardening tips that his best friend, Yuki, taught him. So to suggest this nonsense about wanting to "keep" anything other than a united sense of community is garbage and misinformed. Again - the convenient argument, but it doesn't make it true. It angers me...don't paint a picture that is based on a lack of information. I have never had a shred of racism in me, however, I'm learning quickly through this new thinking that doesn't embrace or welcome me and says "you don't have to come here". WTH is that? Don't tell me I have to support that kind of thinking, because I won't.

To further clarify - it's not people with another language as a "primary" language...it's the sole language. With no desire to change that. How about addressing that refusal to "bend" or leave behind the desire to stay with what they know?

You don't just turn "racist" overnight...it's either there or it's not. This hasn't been the climate in Richmond, so what's changed? Suddenly, overnight everyone lost all tolerance? Took a pill that made them start hating? No. The sense of "community" and "unity" is being threatened and, of coure, there will be a reaction to that. Join in. Welcome us, we'll welcome you and we'll continue to have the best place ever together. That's my message. I don't like hearing this "go someplace else" crap. It doesn't support this sense of community.

Going to back away for a bit, as the point is obviously lost on some here who have tunnel vision.


...you still fail to address the crux of my argument in the second paragraph. What is meant when a poster here says "we as citizens should not be changing our ways of life or bending to make it easier for new Canadians to adapt to our society"? As I said in a previous post, that already sets up an "us" vs "them" mentality, where "they" are the uncultured noble savages in the city.
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#152 Jester13

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:08 PM

So what if everyone adopts this philosophy then? If you don't like it, don't come? Doesn't it go against everything we're trying desperately to avoid? That, to me, is a big step backward. Is it not?

Do we not lose the "multi" part if we all can't participate together? Is exclusion and segregation a direction we really want to head (back) to? That's what this leads to.

It's not racist to want to join in. It's not racist to stand up against an attitude that says "I don't care - if you don't like it don't come here...it's my property and I'll do as I please". That's not something we should adopt...it isn't the "Canadian" way. The Canadian way is to share a sense of "community" that everyone can enjoy, but this does little to support that.

I'm tired of people using the "veiled racism" card. How about applying it to those who really don't care to cater to anyone but their own? Do you not see that you're being hypocrites in not applying your thinking across the board. So Chinese people who come without any intention or desire to assimilate, communicate, or associate with anyone aren't being "racist"? Give me a break...it's a two sided coin. Maybe we should change the city welcome from "Island City by Nature" to "If You Don't Like It, Don't Come"?

Honestly, that's what you're suggesting? That's in the best interest of the residents? No, it's not.

Seriously - don't throw out the "veiled racist" BS unless you are applying it across the board and have the same standards for all. The day I can say "sorry, if you don't like it don't come" without being called a racist is the day I'll accept the same in return. That isn't the case, so I rest mine. Not a bone of racism in my body...I just like fair treatment for all. I have lived here my entire life and have never seen this before...it isn't about positive change, or I'd be on board. The day I'm being sent the message "go elsewhere" is a sorry day indeed.

I want Richmond to continue to be a place where we know our neighbours. Where we gather at places as friends, not have to avoid them because we're unsure. I don't think my way of thinking is wrong. Most of my friend/neighbours and people I do business with are Chinese. And they, too, express the same feelings. Hell, you only need scroll through to see that many here in support of this ARE Chinese people. So they're "racist"? C'mon, come up with something more creative.


It's not that you are wrong in thinking this, it's just that you are mistaken to think that because you think this way means that everyone should think that way. I don't know anyone in my neighbourhood, I don't even know my neighbour in the apartment next to me, or across from me, and frankly I don't really care to either, but this doesn't make me a bad person, nor does it make them bad people to not want to know and be friends with me either. I think you might be living in a fantasy land tho (I promise I don't mean that in a mean way). As cities grow and become ever more populated people begin to lose touch with those around them and stick to their close groups. There is nothing wrong or divisive with this at all; it is simply the reality of major metropolitan cities and the reality of things.


I agree but I still love his legal input he adds more to a thread than most

Not to mention that the legal stuff he has quoted has gone through the top courts where they apply the most rigorous scrutiny of moral and ethical standards so as to apply to Canadian values and society. The law(s) they have come up with regarding this issue are IMHO fair and balanced and for the greater good, and worth accepting until proven otherwise. I honestly think that those who do not feel like the rulings on this matter are fair and just might want to rethink and research a little more to have a clearer idea of the opposing ideas that contradict their own because they just might be missing something.

Edited by Jester13, 18 March 2013 - 06:09 PM.

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#153 hockeyfan87

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:17 PM

As a Canadian of Scottish-Dutch ancestry I found the fact that ground zero for this "problem" is a place called Aberdeen Centre. Does anyone else enjoy that irony?
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#154 DonLever

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:27 PM

Did anyone see Global News at 6:00 pm? The two people presenting the petition are old and white haired.

Is this a generational thing? Are these folks living in the past when Richmond was almost 100% white? You can knock it all you want about this petition, but I think racism is involved. People don't come straight out and say they don't like Chinese people. But I beleived there is something more to this petition.
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#155 aeromotacanucks

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:28 PM

honestly I donīt see what is the big deal of demand have signs on your national language...

if you live in Canada speak English or French or at least make an effort to do this, if you live in Spain speak Spanish, if you live in Brazil speak Portuguese, if you live in Russia speak Russian and so go on...

people in Richmond arenīt complaining about chinese signs, they are complaining about "chinese only" signs. a diferent culture is good BUT you have to remember where you are. if the country where you are living speaks a diferent language from yours so speak the local language to be understood...

itīs not racism, itīs respect the local culture. the fact you just asked to have the right to understand what is on the signs. in your house you can use your language as much as you can...

BUT outside your house people may not understand your language, if you have the right to keep your culture with you while living on another country the people around have the right to understand what youīre saying...



for example. I really donīt like some asians living in Brazil for years and refuse to speak our language outside their homes with other people, they try make business in their language with us but off course they canīt. but it doesnīt make me racist, I just want that they (immigrants) respect our language and culture on the same way I respect their language and culture.

only when the police come they "sudelly" learn Portuguese fluently. because itīs a federal law here demands to get a Brazilian citizenship (if youīre from another country) that the person learn and speak our language. and thereīs an exam (written and oral) for this...


my country, my language. respect our local culture. if you want live here at least make an effort to speak our local language...

Edited by aeromotacanucks, 18 March 2013 - 06:32 PM.

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#156 theminister

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:38 PM

Did you read my posts? The ones that state that Steveston was a good percentage (majority) of Japanese people when I was growing up in a Japanese fishing village? No one had a problem and it has nothing, at all, to do with "caucasian"...that's just convenient for you to throw out there in order to ignore the facts. We had Japanese gardens (Garry Point has retained some of that feel), a Buddhist Church (that I frequented at times with friends) and Japanese Cultural Center that are still there/in use. The main grocer was run by a lovely Japanese couple ("Steve" & "Shirley") who sold candy, groceries and meat (lol). So don't tell me it's about "wanting to keep it caucasian". Bullocks (I think?). I never even knew that we were different in any way, because I was raised that way. We were neighbours. "Family". Our best friends next door were Japanese and, to this day, my Dad boasts the gardening tips that his best friend, Yuki, taught him. So to suggest this nonsense about wanting to "keep" anything other than a united sense of community is garbage and misinformed. Again - the convenient argument, but it doesn't make it true. It angers me...don't paint a picture that is based on a lack of information. I have never had a shred of racism in me, however, I'm learning quickly through this new thinking that doesn't embrace or welcome me and says "you don't have to come here". WTH is that? Don't tell me I have to support that kind of thinking, because I won't.

To further clarify - it's not people with another language as a "primary" language...it's the sole language. With no desire to change that. How about addressing that refusal to "bend" or leave behind the desire to stay with what they know?

You don't just turn "racist" overnight...it's either there or it's not. This hasn't been the climate in Richmond, so what's changed? Suddenly, overnight everyone lost all tolerance? Took a pill that made them start hating? No. The sense of "community" and "unity" is being threatened and, of coure, there will be a reaction to that. Join in. Welcome us, we'll welcome you and we'll continue to have the best place ever together. That's my message. I don't like hearing this "go someplace else" crap. It doesn't support this sense of community.

Going to back away for a bit, as the point is obviously lost on some here who have tunnel vision.


Deb, we have a very similar experience as I too was raised in Steveston. Everything you say is entirely accurate.

The Japanese locals, most of whom's first gens were monolingual, we're culturally separated for a generation as they were old Japan. Their children, however, carved out a unique cultural identity that they are and should be proud of. Between they and other Stevestonites was nothing but mutual respect and admiration, not fear and bigotry.

My hope, is that same dynamic replicates itself under these somewhat different circumstances.

I'll be damned if I sit by passively, silence my own voice and 'let the market decide.'

We're better than that and my expectations are greater than that.
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#157 Wetcoaster

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:43 PM

You are only looking at it from a legal perspective.

I am advocating a social response.

No I am not.

But you are advocating something contrary to our chosen social policies.

Multiculturalism as enacted in the Canadian Multiculturalism Act is the implementation of a social policy - as Trudeau said there is no official culture and all cultures are considered equal with no one culture pre-eminent. That is the essence of the social policy that is multiculturalism.

Our social policies value diversity not assimilation - it is a policy choice that encompasses such things as multiculturalism, affirmative action and employment equity. The legislation is simply a means of expressing such social policy. The US of A OTOH rejects multiculturalism, affirmative action and employment equity. That is the social policy choices that they make.

To require English on commercial signage does violence to those principles because you are sending a message that English is superior.


University of B.C. psychology professor Andrew Scott Baron said he believes a signage policy could be “dangerous” to the community.


“I think it would have more negative ramifications than positive,” Baron said.


“It establishes a status hierarchy. It says that English is the proper language.”


Baron said the policy could do the most harm to young kids, who don’t understand the politics and might receive the message that “to be Canadian means not to speak Chinese.”


The multiculturalism expert said that living in an increasingly global world means learning to appreciate and speak other languages, rather than setting one above the other.

http://www.theprovince.com/life/Chinese+language+signs+proportion+formal+policy+solution/8110355/story.html#ixzz2NwfzaaBs
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#158 theminister

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

Incorrect. I wasn't advocating requiring anything.

I was advocating asking.


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#159 Mike Vanderhoek

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 06:57 PM

If you live in Canada, or move to Canada from another country, learn the english langauge. You want to live in this great country, learn to adapt to ur great country.
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#160 Wetcoaster

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:02 PM

If you live in Canada, or move to Canada from another country, learn the english langauge. You want to live in this great country, learn to adapt to ur great country.

That is not required.
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#161 Kass9

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:06 PM

6 pages in and I haven't read anything.... So I'm assuming racism has come up?
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#162 DonLever

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:34 PM

Deb, we have a very similar experience as I too was raised in Steveston. Everything you say is entirely accurate.

The Japanese locals, most of whom's first gens were monolingual, we're culturally separated for a generation as they were old Japan. Their children, however, carved out a unique cultural identity that they are and should be proud of. Between they and other Stevestonites was nothing but mutual respect and admiration, not fear and bigotry.

My hope, is that same dynamic replicates itself under these somewhat different circumstances.

I'll be damned if I sit by passively, silence my own voice and 'let the market decide.'

We're better than that and my expectations are greater than that.


It has nothing to with the market place.

Change is already coming to 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Chinese Canadians, the same way it has happened with the Japanese Canadians. It comes in the form of mixed marriages between Caucasian and Chinese people. You seen it, so many Caucasian men with Asian girlfriends and wives.
So why let government decide policy. Assimulaion is already happening.

So big deal we have a few stores with Chinese only signs.

Setting your hair on fire over such a minor issue is riduculous.
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#163 Common sense

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:50 PM

If you live in Canada, or move to Canada from another country, learn the english langauge. You want to live in this great country, learn to adapt to ur great country.


...mais je parle français. N'est-ce pas permis?
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#164 prana16

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 09:44 PM

*
POPULAR

That is not required.


Thanks robo "lawyer". Wanna grab some original thought and join the conversation?
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#165 debluvscanucks

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:07 PM

The multiculturalism expert said that living in an increasingly global world means learning to appreciate and speak other languages, rather than setting one above the other.


Read your own quote and tell me, again, why that doesn't apply to Chinese people?


And to those mentioning what these women look like...so how far off "racism" is stereotyping and judging people on their appearance without knowing anything about them? Before you board the PC bus, check your baggage?


Anyhow, was pulled in here by a report but after 3 minutes, I see some are still simply regurgitating the same garbage without addressing ANY of the valid points being presented. Well done. No one's "setting their hair on fire" so save the dramatics...it doesn't help your case, it just makes it look desperate. It's called discussion and not everyone in this life will share your opinion. But you don't need to throw that stuff in for emphasis. You're double talking here, Don...is it a minor issue and we're silly or is it worthy of you sticking around to dig your heels in as you are?


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#166 theminister

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 10:52 PM

So I see there are three groups.

Those that think the responsibility rests with:

1) the Law
2) the Market
3) the People

I am solidly #3.
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#167 GodzillaDeuce

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 11:21 PM

So I see there are three groups.

Those that think the responsibility rests with:

1) the Law
2) the Market
3) the People

I am solidly #3.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6cyDsuNx_U

Edited by GodzillaDeuce, 18 March 2013 - 11:24 PM.

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#168 Hugemanskost

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 11:52 PM

Food for thought...

I say that there is no such thing as "race". Genetically, homo sapiens sapiens are 99.9% identical. The only significant genetic differences we have as humans are the ones we can see... skin, hair and eye color, skull and eye shape, etc. Those of us who dislike / "hate" people based on these physical differences are, well... interesting. We are all members of the human race who all descended from early Africans, if you believe in evolution.

Frequently, our disdain for people different than ourselves is based upon culture, not "race". You know... Our languages... The foods and beverages we consume... The higher beings we worship... The clothes we wear... Our politicking... Our beliefs and values...

This whole sign argument is cultural, not racial, in my opinion. If one wishes to put a certain language on a sign of a building that they, own, rent or lease, so be it, as long as it's within the law. People are allowed to target the clients that they wish to patronize their shops. I don't understand why a shopkeep would want to do this, but, that's not for me to judge.

Canada is a multicultural country, not a "melting pot" like the States. To each their own, I say. To each their own.
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#169 Buggernut

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:18 AM

Different issues.

Your construct assumes those countries are equivalent to Canada... and they are not on any number of levels.

Canada is not required to operate like any other country, including the US of A and other countries are not required to follow Canada's lead.


Yeah, we're supposed to bend over for them more than they do for us. How about a little consistency in principle, instead of what the Holy Charter says?

Regulation of commercial speech contravenes the Charter's guarantee of freedom of expression as the SCOC has noted. In the case of the French language on signs it had to do with the preservation of French language and culture being overwhelmed so in that case it was a reasonable limitation.

The same argument does not apply in this case.


Are you for absolute adherence to the Charter or not? Doesn't the Charter apply to Quebec just as much as it does to us? Either you are for it or you are not? NO EXCEPTIONS! To make them would make you hypocritical.
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#170 Buggernut

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:20 AM

It's like we're trying to assimilate everyone like the USA, instead of being what defines Canada, multicultural and accepting.


Shouldn't the acceptance go both ways? Of us accepting them and them accepting us by communicating in the official language of their host country?
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#171 Magikal

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:25 AM

Sorry. No breaks given to those who thinly mask their racism through the ol' "get with the white culture or get back on your boat" language. When you want to stop using that pathetic "our" word, let me know.

For those that refuse to learn "your" language and assimilate into "your" culture, they're not receiving basic Canadian rights such as healthcare (even though we pay in a lump sum for it), voting rights, or job hiring priorities. That's the tradeoff, but hey...less people to fight over jobs, doctor's office queues, and less ethnic vote targeting schemes.


What you are talking about is assimulation. If we follow your logic, we should adapt to the aboriginal culture, who were here first, rather than imposing our culture on them.


We are talking about today, not 200+ years ago when there was no established country with laws, programs etc. We are talking about today in a country that accepts all races and creeds. However in such a great country with such a great mission as true multiculturalism, there needs to be a basic set of guidelines to make such a thing possible. Otherwise we get nothing but a false sense of multiculturalism where everyone segregates themselves to little communities with nothing but people from their same race/creed, and there is no effort into communicating with one another to better understand each other. Promoting our national languages and attempting to tear down the language barriers only opens the doors for better communication and understanding of one another. Nowhere am I suggesting or hinting that we attempt to abolish anyone's heritage, language or culture, only to promote true multiculturalism through Canadian national languages and systems.

It isn't "my language or culture" solely, it's something very Canadian should be identifying themselves with.

I'm not saying, for example, that Polish-Canadians should only identify themselves with French/English and Canadian culture. i am saying that they should include those things as well as their Polish heritage.

Anyone should be allowed to speak/practise their native tongue at all times, but by everyone having the ability to speak one of our two official languages, only moves us forward as a nation to understand one another and bring us together. I'm talking about setting our differences aside, not erasing them.

Edited by Magikal, 19 March 2013 - 12:26 AM.

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#172 DonLever

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:38 AM

Chinese signs in Richmond to stay after council rejects proposed English bylaw













Richmond City Council decided Monday they don’t want to be the language police, after a 1,000-strong petition urging them to mandate the use of English or French on signage in the city was essentially struck down at City Hall.
Long-time Richmond residents Kerry Starchuk and Ann Merdinyan presented the petition to council in the hopes a bylaw would be created, requiring one of Canada’s official languages on omnipresent Chinese-language signage seen on businesses, bus stops and leaflets around in the city.
“Harmony is built on understanding. Communication is key,” said Merdinyan, in a short presentation heard by a standing-room only crowd in the council chambers.
“We must become a community inclusive to all people,” she said.
The petition included signatures from 800 Richmond residents, collected in the spring of 2012.
Starchuk and Merdinyan suggested new business adopt the proposed bylaw immediately, while established businesses be given two to three years to conform.
Richmond Mayor Malcolm Brodie was the first to say he doesn’t want city staffers to become the language police, and appeared irked at the fact Councillor Chak Au thought the decision to receive the petition as reviewable information was not enough.
“There’s some rich information here we can differentiate,” said Au.
“If we can have a platform to look at the information more carefully and create a process ... through meaningful discussion is a better approach,” said Au.
Au suggested consultations be made with city merchants, the Chinese community and groups against signage unreadable to about half of the cities population.
In Richmond, nearly 60 per cent of residents reported a non-official language as their mother tongue in 2011.
Just about 37 per cent reported English-only as their mother tongue.
“Personally, I have no problem for signage to be bilingual,” said Au.
No other councillor, nor Mayor Brodie, seconded his motion.
Councillor Evelina Halsey-Brandt spoke on the issue, saying every business in the city has the right to attract customers of their choice.
“If they don’t want me because they haven’t informed me on the business they offer, I’ll talk with my wallet,” said Halsey-Brandt, herself once a landed immigrant of Slavic descent who couldn’t speak English upon arrival.
“I’ve never felt excluded,” she said.
Merdinyan and Starchuk disagree.
“We feel excluded from a certain part of the city,” said Merdinyan, who tabled petitions to the federal, provincial and municipal governments.
“We had hoped to be heard,” she said, citing Richmond’s Aberdeen Shopping Centre as an example of a commercial centre with a signage policy in place.
Aberdeen’s policy states its retailers must use at least 70 per cent English and French in their signage, while the remaining 30 per cent can be of any language.
Richmond resident Randolf Richardson, 40, was against the petition, believing this is an issue of freedom of expression.
“The problem I have is when we force people to express themselves in some way,” Richardson said.
“I see traditional Chinese, simplified Chinese, I see some Russian signage. If you go to Surrey ... you’ll certainly see signage in languages that come from India.”
Merdinyan says she doesn’t expect council to go further with the issue, and is not sure where to go from here herself.
“Home, for tea,” she said, in her British accent.

Edited by DonLever, 19 March 2013 - 12:40 AM.

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#173 theminister

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:41 AM

It has nothing to with the market place.

Change is already coming to 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Chinese Canadians, the same way it has happened with the Japanese Canadians. It comes in the form of mixed marriages between Caucasian and Chinese people. You seen it, so many Caucasian men with Asian girlfriends and wives.
So why let government decide policy. Assimulaion is already happening.

So big deal we have a few stores with Chinese only signs.

Setting your hair on fire over such a minor issue is riduculous.


I think you miss the big picture.

Intermarriage is but a small part of the change and is really an unnecessary, though beneficiary, step in the process. This is more a reflection of integrated societies. Not dominated ones but those that see themselves equal of intermarriage. It's a byproduct not a cause.

Our best step in engaging our neighbours, not through the courts but in the streets, is to find a common understanding in the new cultural landscape.

We have two choices, socially. We either co-habitate, learn from each other and prosper, or we remain divided and try to out compete each other to our mutual disadvantage.

I am quite sure which choice I prefer.
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#174 DonLever

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:43 AM

Referring to the above Province article, read the last sentence, Merdinyan, "Home for Tea", in her British accent.

The nerve of that foreign born person telling people what language a sign can have. Not even born here, and complaining about other new comers.
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#175 Bure1994Mclean

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:19 AM

As a Chinese Canadian I think that's the least they can do. I mean they could do something like in Aberdeen Mall where you must have both English/Chinese but with Chinese more prominent than the English.
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OMG SUNDIN.

The word fear is not in our dictionary, it is in the eyes of the enemy.

The objective of war is not to die for your country, it is to make the enemy die for theirs.

One generation plants the trees, the other gets the shade.

#176 Hugemanskost

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:06 AM

Have a read of what the lads in Pink Floyd had to say in 1973. Kinda poignant, no?

Us And Them - Pink Floyd


Us and them
And after all we're only ordinary men.
Me and you.
God only knows it's not what we would choose to do.
'Forward' he cried from the rear
And the front rank died.
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who.
Up and down.
But in the end it's only round and round.
Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried.
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside.

"I mean, they're not gunna kill ya, so if you give 'em a quick short,
Sharp, shock, they won't do it again. Dig it? I mean he get off
Lightly, 'cause I would've given him a thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion, but really...I mean good manners
Don't cost nothing do they, eh?"
Down and out
It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about.
With, without.
And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?
Out of the way, it's a busy day
I've got things on my mind.
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died.



So many more important issues to deal with than signs and a bunch of old, white-haired, Brit Ex-patriots whining because another immigrant group has come to prominence in "British North America". One half of one percent of Richmond's population (200 000ish) signed the sign petition. Pretty insignificant, if you ask me. Safety is the only real concern regarding signs as it might be difficult to identify location in the event of an accident.

On another note, I wonder what the Musqueam Nation thought in the 1860's when Richmond's original foreign settlers put up their first signs, at Steveston, in English?

Edited by Hugemanskost, 19 March 2013 - 08:09 AM.

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webkit-fake-url://D8829558-F65F-49B9-9829-A7DFC7F2E6E4/application.pdf


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#177 ronthecivil

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:35 AM

Have a read of what the lads in Pink Floyd had to say in 1973. Kinda poignant, no?

Us And Them - Pink Floyd


Us and them
And after all we're only ordinary men.
Me and you.
God only knows it's not what we would choose to do.
'Forward' he cried from the rear
And the front rank died.
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who.
Up and down.
But in the end it's only round and round.
Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried.
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside.

"I mean, they're not gunna kill ya, so if you give 'em a quick short,
Sharp, shock, they won't do it again. Dig it? I mean he get off
Lightly, 'cause I would've given him a thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion, but really...I mean good manners
Don't cost nothing do they, eh?"
Down and out
It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about.
With, without.
And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?
Out of the way, it's a busy day
I've got things on my mind.
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died.



So many more important issues to deal with than signs and a bunch of old, white-haired, Brit Ex-patriots whining because another immigrant group has come to prominence in "British North America". One half of one percent of Richmond's population (200 000ish) signed the sign petition. Pretty insignificant, if you ask me. Safety is the only real concern regarding signs as it might be difficult to identify location in the event of an accident.

On another note, I wonder what the Musqueam Nation thought in the 1860's when Richmond's original foreign settlers put up their first signs, at Steveston, in English?


Who knows but how did doing nothing about it work out for them?

Seems to me the experience of the natives should be taken as a cautionary tale against immigration.

That said it's their right to be sinocentric racist douchebags that don't care to cater to anyone outside their immediate ethnic circle if they want to.
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#178 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

That is not required.



Nor should it be.

To Deb and the rest of the crusaders, I say: If you want to affect social change in Richmond, knock yourself out. Go and talk to the shop owners, bring it up on social media, whatever.

Just leave the government out of it.
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Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#179 theminister

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:25 AM

Nor should it be.

To Deb and the rest of the crusaders, I say: If you want to affect social change in Richmond, knock yourself out. Go and talk to the shop owners, bring it up on social media, whatever.

Just leave the government out of it.


Is that actually a dig? Are you criticizing those that are not shy about commenting on societal issues that they recognize as problematic? Many of those 'crusaders' are not advocating this petition in question or for government to get involved.

Does anyone that actively engages in public issues deserve derision?

How about these guys?



Be the change that you wish to see in the world.” ― Mahatma Gandhi


"It is better to do one's own duty, however defective it may be, than to follow the duty of another, however well one may perform it. He who does his duty as his own nature reveals it, never sins." - Lao Tzu



'If you think in terms of a year, plant a seed; if in terms of ten years, plant trees; if in terms of 100 years, teach the people.' - Confucius

Edited by theminister, 19 March 2013 - 11:56 AM.

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#180 WiseOne

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:40 AM

I don't understand what is wrong with the expecation that signs be in our national languages? Even on private property. That being said, I think people can put up a sign in whatever language they want, however if you are soliciting some type of business, use your native language AND either english or French.
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