Tom Sestito Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Here's my take. I honestly believe we need some heart, and a coaching change. Not to Vigneault, but fire Newell Brown if anyone. He's the guy who runs the powerplay. I think we should get Jason Arnott on a PTO and stick him on the fourth line. I believe we lost experience there, and he'd be useful as a replacement for manny. Just my thoughts, even though we've already passed on Arnott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeburn Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Oh just like it's a teachers fault because a student isn't academically inclined. I'm sorry. AV tells them what they have to do to win. They have to go play the game and get the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Terry Murray was fired last year in LA because his team was lackluster and weren't performing with a 13-12-4 record then went 2-2 for their interim coach and then went on to go 25-13-11 with Daryl Sutter. Sometimes its not the students Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 For frack sakes, make a coaching change already. AV is soo brutal. Always getting outcoached, makes awful line combinations when the choices are so obvious. Mishandled countless rookies (Hodgson, Grabner and now soon to be Kassian and Schroeder) Get this team back on track. Bring in Lindy Ruff "The master at in-game adjustments" to jump start the team. Maybe Kassian could re-ignite his play. This team is going to miss the playoffs, or get knocked out in the first round because AV simply cannot coach. Ok I'm done ranting... for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj vic Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 AV has become the soft target for canuck fans. There is a hell of a lot more wrong with this team than the coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Zamboni Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 what if av gets fired and the team continues to suck or gets worse, then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus099 Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Note that the Sabres didn't fire Ruff because he was a bad coach, nor do I believe it was his fault, but the team needed to realize that they were not performing up to where they should be, and therefore, something had to be done. Usually the coach is the one to take the fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeburn Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Everybody talks about Hodgson by taking Gillis' words at face value. When have you EVER heard anything negative said by Hodgson even after being thrown under the bus by AV and MG? Hodgson has been touted as captain material at EVERY stage of his career. Characters like that don't all of a sudden change overnight especially when he's only a rookie/sophmore in the NHL who hasnt proven anything yet. If he had that kind of selfishness, it would have come out by the time he was eligible for the draft. Up until the trade, all we heard were positive things about Hodgson. My guess is that MG made the move and then realized he might have goofed. He then thought of the best way to save face. I'm sure Hodgson's dad has called MG previously regarding his son's career but really, is that THAT big of a deal? Hodgson himself was not the problem so you dont just throw away an asset. I like Kassian but in all reality, Hodgson has a higher ceiling and we could definitely use him now. But my point is, if AV treated Hodgson better from the beginning, maybe the phone calls from Dad would not have been as frequent. Yeah I admit it's abnormal that a father calls the GM of a hockey club but at the same time, if he knows his son is going to be a star but sees a dumbass coach railroading his kids career, it might be difficult to sit and watch. It's kind of like how we complain about AV and his poor choices but imagine that AV's making the poor choices with your son (who has succeeded at every level of hockey) and you had the GM's phone number lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Both Vigneault and Gillis get the blame. Gillis for not providing enough skill guys and AV for not utilizing the few they do have properly. A.V is terrible at developing skilled prospects. Schroeder goes down to the minors to get his confidence up to be recalled and play with some skill guys right to try to get on a roll?... Wrong instead he puts him on the 4th line and leaves a career journeyman in his spot!!! No instead Vigneault has something against skilled young players and will only give a chance to the ones that are good defensively. He ruins the frustrates young players to the point where they want to leave see Shirokov and Hodgson while chasing away others like Grabner. The only way for young players to develop is to give them ice time and live with the mistakes that are bound to come. AV doesn't do that he staples Kassian or Schroeder to the bench if hey have a couple of rough shifts and puts them on the 4th line with grinders instead of letting them play with some skill guys for an extended period to show what they can really do. You have to be patient with young players and AV seems like he has no patience and only has time for the grinders who are safe defensively but provide little offensively. Every coach has a best before date. AV is starting to get much closer to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I just wanna say if users claim that av is allowed to fall back pn past success (president trophies, scf) then kassian can fall back on his jr numbers, edler can fall back on his 50lts last year. Hank and dank fall back on their arts, lu amd scheids fall back on their jennings and kesler falls back on his 40g selke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Well said. And true. It's conceivable that the general public will truly never know the ins and outs of what transpired behind the scenes that lead to the Hodgson trade away, but we do know a few things... 1) the only people who have known/worked with him and who have bashed him, are those who traded him away 2) AV and MG are only human, and it's simply not unheard of for humans to rationalize their own decisions (good or bad) by finding fault with the other party after the fact (see: breakup of marriages and friendships, firings of long term employees, conflicts between life-long business partners, etc.) 3) Hodgson expressed only surprise, if not a shock equal to what media and fans expressed, upon learning he was traded (so kinda hard to imagine he wanted out of Vanc., much less asked for a trade, as many fans have since claimed on the basis of nothing) 4) At no time before or after the trade did Hodgson ever behave or talk in any way that was less than that of a professional young athlete (ie: there are no photos, first hand accounts, or verified quotes of the kid ever expressing a "primmadonna" attitude - it's simply been implied by AV/MG after the fact, and repeated so many times by fans and media alike that it sounds like a "fact") 5) By all accounts, Hodgson's current coaching staff and teammates don't have any problems with him either, and in fact he's spoken of highly (ie: linemates Vanek and Pomminville have credited him for their success as line, etc.), and yet if the claims that this kid demanded more ice-time, etc. were true, you'd expect he'd be even MORE of a "primaddona" post-trade (ie: like rewarding a toddler for bad behaviour only serves to teach the toddler to continue to act up). 6) Other claims, such as that Hodgson is a "defensive liability" with offensive potential only if "sheltered", have been entirely debunked by the kid's performance since (consistently producing offense when put in any game situation and up against top lines/defense, steadily improving two-way game, one of the regulars on the PK, etc.), such suggests that other claims made by AV/MG (and media and fans since the trade) may be equally misplaced if not outright untrue. -------------------- But all that aside, going back to the thread's actual subject - yeah, I'd vote for it being time for a new coach. Not because of Hodgson or the subsequent Hodgson trade, but because of what that whole saga flags out about how players are generally managed under the current regime... Hodgson hasn't debunked the claims against his game simply by being some sorta awesome superstar, but by being given a chance to develop game after game. His defensive game has steadily improved this season because he's been given a chance to gain the experience needed to get better. He's not benched for every mistake, trying to play under fear of being humiliated by a public "call out", or left not knowing his role such that he's running around in circles chasing useless hits to prove he can be another grinder as a means to stay out of the press box, etc. Can't say the same for Kassian, Grabner, Ballard, Schroeder, etc. Yep, I'd vote to change the coach - and the GM, who has systematically failed to inject, find and/or otherwise sign some youth to replace the generation lost under AV's tenure. Gillis claimed to want to model the Canucks after Detroit, lol. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeywoot Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I don't expect to change your closed mind about the subject. But you have no valid argument for keeping AV other than regular season success and an intense fear that his replacement might not be better. If you think the only reason the Canucks lost to Boston was because of injuries then you are proving my point about AV........the coach's JOB is to overcome injuries in the playoffs......by getting the most out of the 23 man roster.....Some coaches can, and some - like AV - can't. Because they keep going back to what has worked in the past instead of trying something new and getting all players on the team playing with confidence and to their strengths. It is called getting outcoached..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllEyezOnMe Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I don't see how people think that lindy ruff will suddenly come here like a knight in shining armour and save this team before the remainder of the season ends. Like what do you guys even expect him to do? Oo yehh he'll Make kesler a 50 goal scorer, sedins will be averaging 7 hits per game and fighting back when tested by opposition, and last but not least Tom sestito will lead the team scoring .... get serious lol lindy ruff nor any other can't do SH*T half way through this season especially in the state this team is already in. The team's has to wake up they don't need a specific coach to do it for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeywoot Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Well said. And true. It's conceivable that the general public will truly never know the ins and outs of what transpired behind the scenes that lead to the Hodgson trade away, but we do know a few things... 1) the only people who have known/worked with him and who have bashed him, are those who traded him away 2) AV and MG are only human, and it's simply not unheard of for humans to rationalize their own decisions (good or bad) by finding fault with the other party after the fact (see: breakup of marriages and friendships, firings of long term employees, conflicts between life-long business partners, etc.) 3) Hodgson expressed only surprise, if not a shock equal to what media and fans expressed, upon learning he was traded (so kinda hard to imagine he wanted out of Vanc., much less asked for a trade, as many fans have since claimed on the basis of nothing) 4) At no time before or after the trade did Hodgson ever behave or talk in any way that was less than that of a professional young athlete (ie: there are no photos, first hand accounts, or verified quotes of the kid ever expressing a "primmadonna" attitude - it's simply been implied by AV/MG after the fact, and repeated so many times by fans and media alike that it sounds like a "fact") 5) By all accounts, Hodgson's current coaching staff and teammates don't have any problems with him either, and in fact he's spoken of highly (ie: linemates Vanek and Pomminville have credited him for their success as line, etc.), and yet if the claims that this kid demanded more ice-time, etc. were true, you'd expect he'd be even MORE of a "primaddona" post-trade (ie: like rewarding a toddler for bad behaviour only serves to teach the toddler to continue to act up). 6) Other claims, such as that Hodgson is a "defensive liability" with offensive potential only if "sheltered", have been entirely debunked by the kid's performance since (consistently producing offense when put in any game situation and up against top lines/defense, steadily improving two-way game, one of the regulars on the PK, etc.), such suggests that other claims made by AV/MG (and media and fans since the trade) may be equally misplaced if not outright untrue. -------------------- But all that aside, going back to the thread's actual subject - yeah, I'd vote for it being time for a new coach. Not because of Hodgson or the subsequent Hodgson trade, but because of what that whole saga flags out about how players are generally managed under the current regime... Hodgson hasn't debunked the claims against his game simply by being some sorta awesome superstar, but by being given a chance to develop game after game. His defensive game has steadily improved this season because he's been given a chance to gain the experience needed to get better. He's not benched for every mistake, trying to play under fear of being humiliated by a public "call out", or left not knowing his role such that he's running around in circles chasing useless hits to prove he can be another grinder as a means to stay out of the press box, etc. Can't say the same for Kassian, Grabner, Ballard, Schroeder, etc. Yep, I'd vote to change the coach - and the GM, who has systematically failed to inject, find and/or otherwise sign some youth to replace the generation lost under AV's tenure. Gillis claimed to want to model the Canucks after Detroit, lol. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 But I think at least part of that is the fact that AV is turning players into those kind of players so he can have that kind of team. I don't think it is all on MG as there are some pretty interesting lineup and role decisions made by AV with some players who would be better off in a different role. And it seems to be in all cases they are offensive players being asked to play defensive and/or dump and chase hockey rather than play to their strengths. In some ways AV is coaching this team to what he wants them to become not what they truly are at this point. Gillis needs to make a decision on what team he wants and what coach can coach it that way because right now there is a huge disconnect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I have to disagree. People overstate the role of the coaches. Swap AV and Julien, with the same roster and injuries. Results would have been similar. A toss up between the two teams. It did come down to seven games afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 We need a second line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ride the red Pony Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 This team has no identity right now, I like the way teams like Columbus, Ottawa etc. are winning, with arguably lesser talent. They are out working, out husseling, out hitting and doing all the little things right. Mentally the nucks are very fragile right now, and it is the coaches job to relieve some of that, he needs to put them in a position to succeed, IMO I don't think AV is doing that. I think with the way he has handled certain situations he has got them playing safe, so scared of failure that the team is losing confidence in a hurry, no swagger, heads hanging, Henrik saying "dank and I have gotta be better" after every game. Well Henrik good to see you man up, but time to start calling out the whole team, not just you two, cuz if AV won't do it someone in the dressing room is gonna have too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Killer Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I wish we had the GM/Coaching system that we have in London. That's a prime example of how to run a team. I know junior hockey is different and everything, but they truly understand the aspect of talent development and scouting very well. That's something we need work on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc_devil Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Improper use of Hodgson and Schroeder talent and using them as 4th line center. Hodgson has sure proven their statements wrong and is producing in Buffalo as a top line center competing against top line defense pairings. I though AV and MG said he would be unable to produce in those situations. Along with the improper utilization of Ballard, Kassian, Booth, Garrison and where Grabner showed a scoring ability when called up he was quickily dissmissed. Grabner and Hodgson have both produce against number one defensive parings something AV claimed they'd be unable to do. Imagine what he'd could be doing here on a second or third line against weaker defense pairings, not to mention he was that pp 2nd unit center. Everyone seems to forget why the Sedins plus minus is soo good. It also helps due to the fact they aren't put in defensive situations and no pk ice time. So expectations of other top line player to be like that is fairly impossible yet demanded of rookies? Av just doesn't know how to reconize talent and use them properly. As for Kesler and Burrows excuse they were already defensively minded players who luckily had offensive abilities were given the opportunity thanks to the Sedins suggestions and limited options. AV and his staff just need to go. How many more games do we need to see their inadaptability and same old game plan they just don't know how to use incoming players or upcoming talent while being outcoached. Free the team let them enjoy themselves and use their strengths instead of the same old crap. Get someone who can coach and inspire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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