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Is it time for a new coach?


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#61 whytelight

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:42 AM

Leafs and Ron Wilson = loosers
Leafs and Randy Carlyle = winners

#62 aqua59

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:46 AM

Leafs and Ron Wilson = loosers
Leafs and Randy Carlyle = winners


Really, what have they won under Carlyle? Did they win last night? When was the last time they won? The Leafs have to make the playoffs before they can say they've won anything. Leafs are still a joke!

#63 Gollumpus

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:47 AM

I don't believe the Sedins are doing that good right now anyways. Are we winning? NO. Would it hurt to play Kassian with the Sedins again? NO.


I'm all in favour of playing Kassian on the top line. I think the Sedins play a different style of game with him than they do with Burrows. However, this was the point made by various pundits. When did the Sedins really start to put up a lot of points? It was after Kassian was removed from the top line and Burrows was added back in.


Coaches are suppose to make adjustments and in my opinion he hasn't made them. He could of tried Schroeder on the wing with the Canucks as a pose to putting him in a lose sittuation on the 4th line. Wouldn't Schroeder of been served better playing with players that may help him succeed?


At the risk of sounding like an AV apologist, I'm pretty sure he does make adjustments both before and during a game.

Schroeder was tried on the wing, last season in Chicago. Apparently he sucked at it. Perhaps he can work on that part of his game now that he is back in Chicago.

Playing Schroeder at 2C up here wouldn't do anyting for his game or his confidence. And it would likely not do the team any favours. He'd likely get beat more often than not in the faceoff circle (44% this season), and he still needs to adapt to the bigger and faster NHL game. I hope he does well.

regards,
G.
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#64 Gollumpus

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

Lets not carried away. He's never had a stacked team. He's had a good team but not stacked.


That 2006 - 07 wasn't stacked?

I do like Ruff as a coach. And it's not his fault that the Sabres management couldn't keep their team together (unlike Gillis). However, Ruff's results are just as reliant upon the players on the ice as any other coach.

I wouldn't expect to see any huge differences (other than the honeymoon bump) in having Ruff here rather than AV.


regards,
G.
Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#65 gumshoe242

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:56 AM

The other problem with AV is his lack of being able to groom our young talent.
If we don't get Ruff I'd be very dissapointed but another guy I'd consider is Crawford. He has a real team here that he can coach. He won a cup with the Avalanche.


Fall down and bumped your head, did ya? So sorry 'bout that.

#66 Italia2006

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:59 AM

Really, what have they won under Carlyle? Did they win last night? When was the last time they won? The Leafs have to make the playoffs before they can say they've won anything. Leafs are still a joke!


In Carlyle's defence, he has made a team that should of been doing a lot worse than they are, a contender for a playoffs spot. He also has made them a lot more difficult to play against.

#67 Italia2006

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:00 PM

That 2006 - 07 wasn't stacked?

I do like Ruff as a coach. And it's not his fault that the Sabres management couldn't keep their team together (unlike Gillis). However, Ruff's results are just as reliant upon the players on the ice as any other coach.

I wouldn't expect to see any huge differences (other than the honeymoon bump) in having Ruff here rather than AV.


regards,
G.


Maybe his voice wasn't being heard anymore and the same can be said for AV.

#68 Gollumpus

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:01 PM

Two question marks fulfills your requirement for snideness?

Whatever. Last thing I need to do with my weekend is argue with strangers on the internet.


Back at yah. :)

So, two question marks fulfills your requirements?

And I don't believe we were arguing, merely exchanging opinons. You chose to express yours with a touch of what could be described as sarcastic disbelief, and then disliked it when I returned the favour.

Otherwise, it's a nice day out there. We should all go for a walk. :)

regards,
G.
Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#69 Italia2006

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:01 PM

Fall down and bumped your head, did ya? So sorry 'bout that.


Sure, if that makes you feel better about yourself.

#70 Gollumpus

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

Maybe his voice wasn't being heard anymore and the same can be said for AV.


There's generally some truth in this observation. It may well be true about Ruff. From some comments on the Sabres forums, they like Ruff and what he has done for that team over the years, however they also acknowledge that he was no longer the guy for the job.

This being said, I see AV and Ruff as being in completely different situations. AV is coaching a team how management want him to coach it (more offense), and they are giving him better support to play that style than Ruff got in Buffalo.

This being said, perhaps if the team was built closer to what AV would like, and they played a style which was more in line with AV's beliefs, maybe the Canucks would be a better team. Maybe there would have been bigger, talented players drafted right from the start of Gillis' term here if he hadn't forced the idea of the Canucks being fast and skilled and, as it turned out, also small.

regards,
G.
Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#71 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

It's time for an entire coaching staff change. Bowness has been here since Moses wore short pants. Newell Brown was great at first the the PP has been garbage for as long as I can remember now and hasn't improved. Both of them are displaying their inability to help the boys fix what is wrong with this team -- PP productivity and defensive play.

Of course this cannot be done now at this point in the season anyway. We have to ride out the season with them leading the way.
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#72 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:33 PM

I don't believe the Sedins are doing that good right now anyways. Are we winning? NO. Would it hurt to play Kassian with the Sedins again? NO.

It kind of surprises me that this keeps popping up in so many threads...

Last night notwithstanding, Kassian plays with the twins after virtually every penalty kill. This has been happening for weeks, with pretty much zero effectiveness. Against the Preds, the twins managed to set up the cycle in the offensive zone and it took Kass a grand total of one pass to give the puck away. This almost never happens with Burrows, because he's familiar with the Sedin cycle and knows where to go and where to put the puck.

Kassian had good offensive numbers when he played on the top line because both Sedins are good at finding the open man. However, Danny and Hank's numbers were suffering because the reverse is not true. Their numbers improved immediately after being reunited with Burrows.

So in answer to your question: Yes. It would hurt to play Kassian with the Sedins again. Give him time to familiarize himself during the after-PK shifts and maybe the idea could be revisited later in the season.

Edited by RUPERTKBD, 17 March 2013 - 12:35 PM.

Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#73 Italia2006

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:45 PM

It kind of surprises me that this keeps popping up in so many threads...

Last night notwithstanding, Kassian plays with the twins after virtually every penalty kill. This has been happening for weeks, with pretty much zero effectiveness. Against the Preds, the twins managed to set up the cycle in the offensive zone and it took Kass a grand total of one pass to give the puck away. This almost never happens with Burrows, because he's familiar with the Sedin cycle and knows where to go and where to put the puck.

Kassian had good offensive numbers when he played on the top line because both Sedins are good at finding the open man. However, Danny and Hank's numbers were suffering because the reverse is not true. Their numbers improved immediately after being reunited with Burrows.

So in answer to your question: Yes. It would hurt to play Kassian with the Sedins again. Give him time to familiarize himself during the after-PK shifts and maybe the idea could be revisited later in the season.


Do you honestly think that one shift after a penalty kill is going to make a difference. The Canucks as a whole look like crap. You might as well try new things and get people going. The Sedins and Burrows is not working right now. Lets get Kassian going and play him with the Sedins for a game or 2.

#74 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:55 PM

Do you honestly think that one shift after a penalty kill is going to make a difference. The Canucks as a whole look like crap. You might as well try new things and get people going. The Sedins and Burrows is not working right now. Lets get Kassian going and play him with the Sedins for a game or 2.

Both goals last night. If not for three very lucky Redwing bounces, that game could have been in doubt at the end. However, without the Sedin-Burrows chemistry in evidence, Howard could easily have pitched a shutout. The Canucks at this point don't have the luxury of testing out your theory...
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#75 Italia2006

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

Both goals last night. If not for three very lucky Redwing bounces, that game could have been in doubt at the end. However, without the Sedin-Burrows chemistry in evidence, Howard could easily have pitched a shutout. The Canucks at this point don't have the luxury of testing out your theory...


I agree we're at the point where we need to win. Other than last night, they haven't been that productive.

#76 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

I agree we're at the point where we need to win. Other than last night, they haven't been that productive.

So, your cure for them "not being that productive" is to put them with a winger that they're less familiar with...? :huh:

Do you disagree that Danny and Hank are more productive now than they were at the beginning of the season?
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#77 Italia2006

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:16 PM

If Gillis doesn't want to do any coaching change then maybe a little change needs to be done. I'd change Newell Brown and get another voice in there. They need a kick in the ass and I can't see anyone from our coaching staff being able to do it.

#78 Italia2006

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:17 PM

So, your cure for them "not being that productive" is to put them with a winger that they're less familiar with...? :huh:

Do you disagree that Danny and Hank are more productive now than they were at the beginning of the season?


I agree with you. Were we winning more games at the beginning or now?

Edited by Italia2006, 17 March 2013 - 01:22 PM.


#79 cc_devil

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:20 PM

Gillis and the coaching staff need to go period. Gillis has allowed this crap to continue by resigning the bum and his staff.
Time for a new change in GM and coaching staff.

#80 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:20 PM

I agree with you. Where we winning more games at the beginning or now?


Then. Thanks to better goaltending, not because Kassian was on the first line.
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#81 Italia2006

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

Then. Thanks to better goaltending, not because Kassian was on the first line.


Good point.

#82 Stick-in-Rink

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

Our main downfall this season has been our defense and power play. Both Bones and Brown haven't adjusted... someone explain to me why they are still with us.

AV... well AV. Always puts those players he wishes to see succeed in those positions, while the players (Ballard) who have time and time played well, are still in the doghouse. It seems as if the players in the locker room have tuned him out, in a 2-1 game going into the 3rd period yesterday, how could we have come out so flat-footed in the 3rd? That's mainly to do with the coaching. If nothing is getting our team fired up right now, and this was the same issue last season, the coach needs to go.

AV is a good coach, but he's not the coach our team needs and he should have been long gone.

#83 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:32 PM

Good point.

Although I disagree with the whole "fire AV" bit, I do admit to being frustrated at times with the coaching decisions.

I can't for the life of me figure out why we keep trotting out the same 1st PP unit. The only thing that seems to be even partially effective right now is the Garrison point shot. (although he was back to shooting it wide again last night) If nothing else, I'd like to see Brown switch the defense pairings on the 1st unit. Bieksa-Garrison has been better than Edler-Hamhuis, IMO.

I don't know exactly how much autonomy Vigneault gives Brown, (I believe he handles his assistants like he handles his players; preferring to let them work out their issues) however, in this respect, I agree with AV's detractors in that as head coach, he needs to step in at some point and tell them what they're doing isn't good enough.

I think that time is long overdue with Newell Brown. (Although I disagree that Bowness is to that point. Yet.)
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#84 k_man08

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:34 PM

Dallas Eakins would be my first choice. He's done a marvelous job with leafs and their young players.
We need someone who will work with young players and give them a chance to succeed. Rather than whine about the youngesters playing sheltered minutes and force trades to happen so we can have more plugs with no scoring touch in our lineups.


-Hardcore Canucka

#85 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:36 PM

Dallas Eakins would be my first choice. He's done a marvelous job with leafs and their young players.
We need someone who will work with young players and give them a chance to succeed. Rather than whine about the youngesters playing sheltered minutes and force trades to happen so we can have more plugs with no scoring touch in our lineups.

Just curious: Which young players did AV "whine about" and force to be traded?
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#86 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

Just curious, are you guys hoping Gillis fires AV during this season, or should he wait until after the playoffs?



Ruff guided the Sabres to the playoffs twice in the last five years. This would have been twice in the last six had he not been fired. I'm not suggesting he's a bad coach, but obviously something went south in the Sabres dressing room.

Gillis inherited AV, as in he chose to keep AV back in 2008. Since then, Gillis has extended AV's contract (twice, I believe).

If anyone has a problem with AV's coaching style, then you also have a problem with Gillis, for it is Gillis who is keeping AV here. If AV has to go, then so should Gillis.

There are some who would view this as a good thing, and who knows, they may well get their wish. Perhaps it happening sooner rather than later will be a good thing, so we can all get started on threads about the good old days when Gillis and AV were running the team. :)

regards,
G.


With all due respect, AV has gone as stale here as Ruff did in Buffalo......if not more. At least a much less talented Buffalo team still worked hard under Ruff this season.

People are so scared to try a new coach....the question is why? Its not like AV has done anything in the playoffs outside of one run that almost ended in the 1st round with an epic failure partially because he got outcoached (again). Everything else he has done amounts to failure in the end when you look at the teams he had to coach.

Ruff took some much less talented teams further than AV has with very skilled teams.........

#87 flapjacks

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:39 PM

AV's coaching decisions are very questionable. And I'm not sure what he's like inside the room, but from what we know the players say that he usually doesn't have to say a lot extra to them. I think we'd benefit more from a coach who's more vocal about his opinions and demands of the team in order to spark them. I also am annoyed with the way he treats younger players. Putting them on the fourth line with grinders playing minimum minutes and then benching and sending them down to the AHL just because they don't produce does not seem justified to me. If he hasn't noticed, it's not only the young players that are performing poorly.

#88 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:42 PM

Although I disagree with the whole "fire AV" bit, I do admit to being frustrated at times with the coaching decisions.

I can't for the life of me figure out why we keep trotting out the same 1st PP unit. The only thing that seems to be even partially effective right now is the Garrison point shot. (although he was back to shooting it wide again last night) If nothing else, I'd like to see Brown switch the defense pairings on the 1st unit. Bieksa-Garrison has been better than Edler-Hamhuis, IMO.

I don't know exactly how much autonomy Vigneault gives Brown, (I believe he handles his assistants like he handles his players; preferring to let them work out their issues) however, in this respect, I agree with AV's detractors in that as head coach, he needs to step in at some point and tell them what they're doing isn't good enough.

I think that time is long overdue with Newell Brown. (Although I disagree that Bowness is to that point. Yet.)


You can't figure out why they keep trotting out the same PP unit? Because AV would rather lose with his favorites than win with anyone else carrying the mail. It is his trademark and a huge reason this team lost to Boston in the finals.........

The best coaches get the best out of every player and hold all of them accountable. Can you honestly say AV has done that to Edler this season? Or Hamhuis? Or Bieksa? Come on.....he plays favorites and while that can be ignored when you are dominating (although it shouldnt be but whatever), it should be addressed as soon as it becomes a chronic inhibitor to the team's success.....which it did over a year ago.

#89 k_man08

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:45 PM

Just curious: Which young players did AV "whine about" and force to be traded?


we all know coaches have a big decision on trades, esp if they have a good relationship with the GM. and you know who im referring to.


-Hardcore Canucka

#90 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:50 PM

You can't figure out why they keep trotting out the same PP unit? Because AV would rather lose with his favorites than win with anyone else carrying the mail. It is his trademark and a huge reason this team lost to Boston in the finals.........

The best coaches get the best out of every player and hold all of them accountable. Can you honestly say AV has done that to Edler this season? Or Hamhuis? Or Bieksa? Come on.....he plays favorites and while that can be ignored when you are dominating (although it shouldnt be but whatever), it should be addressed as soon as it becomes a chronic inhibitor to the team's success.....which it did over a year ago.

You know, this sound like some sort of prayer you say before you go to bed every night. I've answered all of these points many times and it's getting tiresome. I honestly don't understand why you continue to post your opinion in response to my posts, expecting me to change my mind and agree with you.

One more time: The Canucks lost to Boston because they were not healthy and Thomas played unbelievable in net.

2) I'm sorry your boy Ballard isn't getting more playing time, but it's not the reason the team is where it's currently at.

Let me know when you have something new to whine about.
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!




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