Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo
* - - - - 1 votes

Kassian is a Power Forward not a Grinder!


  • Please log in to reply
80 replies to this topic

#1 NewYorkYankees8771

NewYorkYankees8771

    K-Wing Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 67 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 11

Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:09 AM

*
POPULAR

Can some people please stop all this "oh yeah I see Zack Kassian becoming a Steve Ott or Chris Neil third liner type of player down the road". He isin't getting points lately because he is being badly handled and should be in a top line role in my opinion (alternating with burrows) with more time on the power play.


The main thing is that based on his prior resume, he is destined to be a tough skilled guy, not some random goon.



This proves that he has the ability to be a top line or 2nd line guy(at the very worst):

- 4th overall in the 2007 OHL midget draft just behind ryan o'reilly, taylor hall and ahead of matt duchene, cam fowler, ryan ellis
- He put up 80 points in 57 games played that year in 2007 with the Windosr Midget AAA Spitfires, so this shows that he is no late bloomer, he was a scorer in minor hockey.
- Won gold at the 2008 Ivan Hlinka U-18 with guys like Taylor Hall, Matt Duchene, Evander Kane, Brayden Schenn,
- A point a game guy during his NHL draft year in 2009 (63 points in 61 games with the Peterborough Petes) (yet again shows he can produce)
- 13th Overall in the 2009 NHL Draft. ( If he was only destined to be just be a "goon" theirs no way he would have been drafted this high, obviously he can score.
- 77 points in 56 games in 2011 in his last year or junior
- Made the 2011 World junior team in his last year of junior ( he can skate)
- 26 points in 30 games with Rochester Americans of the AHL in 2011-2012


There you go, and what is my point you ask?

It is that Zack Kassian has a lot more potential offensively then his critics thinks he has and I believe he is being mistreated by Alain VIgneault by all of a sudden only getting third line minutes after his excellent start to the season (almost a goal a game). He should rotate with burrows on the top line and like I said, he has played with superstars before (Hall, Duchene etc...)
  • 15
luongo-crosby-phaneuf-e.kane

#2 wendythirteenthrashers

wendythirteenthrashers

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 567 posts
  • Joined: 21-March 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:13 AM

Yep totally mishandled....
  • 0

#3 Bob.Loblaw

Bob.Loblaw

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,250 posts
  • Joined: 24-November 09

Posted 19 March 2013 - 01:25 AM

Steve Ott was prolific in the OHL, and he's a solid player here in the NHL too. Neil is definitely that grinder-type guy, but I don't see why Kassian can't get goals that way.

He doesn't possess the ability to hold his own on the first line, at least not now. Simply put, he doesn't deserve it. And right now, we're definitely not in a position to test his chemistry, since our team desperately needs wins.
  • 2
Posted Image

Hockey_Crazy is a god. But I still got dibs on Yuna.

#4 Kryten

Kryten

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,616 posts
  • Joined: 02-February 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:32 AM

Kassian has to earn it, it shouldn't be given to him. Until he decides to play hard on both sides of the puck, he can stay on the 4th line as far as I'm concerned.
  • 3
Posted Image

#5 Baggins

Baggins

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,955 posts
  • Joined: 30-July 03

Posted 19 March 2013 - 02:44 AM

Can some people please stop all this "oh yeah I see Zack Kassian becoming a Steve Ott or Chris Neil third liner type of player down the road". He isin't getting points lately because he is being badly handled and should be in a top line role in my opinion (alternating with burrows) with more time on the power play.


The main thing is that based on his prior resume, he is destined to be a tough skilled guy, not some random goon.



This proves that he has the ability to be a top line or 2nd line guy(at the very worst):

- 4th overall in the 2007 OHL midget draft just behind ryan o'reilly, taylor hall and ahead of matt duchene, cam fowler, ryan ellis
- He put up 80 points in 57 games played that year in 2007 with the Windosr Midget AAA Spitfires, so this shows that he is no late bloomer, he was a scorer in minor hockey.
- Won gold at the 2008 Ivan Hlinka U-18 with guys like Taylor Hall, Matt Duchene, Evander Kane, Brayden Schenn,
- A point a game guy during his NHL draft year in 2009 (63 points in 61 games with the Peterborough Petes) (yet again shows he can produce)
- 13th Overall in the 2009 NHL Draft. ( If he was only destined to be just be a "goon" theirs no way he would have been drafted this high, obviously he can score.
- 77 points in 56 games in 2011 in his last year or junior
- Made the 2011 World junior team in his last year of junior ( he can skate)
- 26 points in 30 games with Rochester Americans of the AHL in 2011-2012


There you go, and what is my point you ask?

It is that Zack Kassian has a lot more potential offensively then his critics thinks he has and I believe he is being mistreated by Alain VIgneault by all of a sudden only getting third line minutes after his excellent start to the season (almost a goal a game). He should rotate with burrows on the top line and like I said, he has played with superstars before (Hall, Duchene etc...)


What a kid does in midget, junior, or the AHL does not mean it will happen in the NHL.

He's still a prospect. He will be moved up and down the lines according to his play. Which has so far been inconsistent.
  • 1
Posted Image

#6 Rounoush

Rounoush

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,105 posts
  • Joined: 19-October 10

Posted 19 March 2013 - 04:57 AM

Kassian has to earn it, it shouldn't be given to him. Until he decides to play hard on both sides of the puck, he can stay on the 4th line as far as I'm concerned.


Mostly agree with this. Kassian has to learn be consistent and reliable defensively. Until he learns this, he will get less minutes. Kesler and Burrows were put through the exact same treatment and look how they turned out.
  • 0
Posted Image
Thanks a bunch to khalifawiz501 for the signature.

#7 Kevin Biestra

Kevin Biestra

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,869 posts
  • Joined: 31-October 08

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:02 AM

The Midget Draft?

That doesn't prove anything in 2013.
  • 1
Posted ImagePosted Image


Biestra speaks. Biestra educates.

Let Canucks management know you want King Richard Brodeur in the Ring of Honour with no further delay! He's been retired for 25 years!

http://forum.canucks...e-king-richard/

#8 Dr. Hockey

Dr. Hockey

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 443 posts
  • Joined: 24-August 09

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:25 AM

Steve Ott was prolific in the OHL, and he's a solid player here in the NHL too. Neil is definitely that grinder-type guy, but I don't see why Kassian can't get goals that way.



He doesn't possess the ability to hold his own on the first line, at least not now. Simply put, he doesn't deserve it. And right now, we're definitely not in a position to test his chemistry, since our team desperately needs wins.


It's not working now. I say put him in top 6 so he can learn how to be top 6.
  • 0

#9 Lidstrom

Lidstrom

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 339 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 07

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:30 AM

Isn't he 22 years old? Let him earn his stripes. Bertuzzi, Kesler, Sedins all did the time on the 3-4th lines before becoming stars. Remember....he's 22.
  • 3
Posted ImagePosted Image

#10 Hairy Kneel

Hairy Kneel

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,079 posts
  • Joined: 01-November 10

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:36 AM

at this point he is still a project learning to play in the pro game..and that includes off ice preparation and maturing into his role and whats expected of him...I just hope he finds a niche to be consistent in the 4th line for now.
  • 0

#11 Blackberries

Blackberries

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,349 posts
  • Joined: 30-August 07

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:43 AM

*
POPULAR

Kassian has to earn it, it shouldn't be given to him. Until he decides to play hard on both sides of the puck, he can stay on the 4th line as far as I'm concerned.


what has ebbett done to earn a second line center spot over schroeder? Why is Edler getting top minutes despite being a liabilty on defense. His stupid little drop passes cause at least one turn over a game. AV's choices have nothing to do with responsibily its about who he thinks will tow the line, and the line is rope a dope take no chances hockey.
  • 6
Posted Image
Movember Kassian

#12 Nino

Nino

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,540 posts
  • Joined: 10-May 10

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:55 AM

It's not working now. I say put him in top 6 so he can learn how to be top 6.


In Chicago?
  • 1

#13 Noheart

Noheart

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,810 posts
  • Joined: 01-June 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:57 AM

AV has probably lost the team, and we do need a coaching change but lets not forget what the man has acomplished.

I'm tired of people saying AV misshandes young tallent.

He does it the same with everyone.
Go back to Jr, play in the AHL.
work your way up the lineup while taking care of your end of the rink.

You can say he mishandled CoHo and Grabner because they dont play for us but part of the reason they thrive today was from the pace they developed.

It's frustrating, it's hard to watch, but it's best for the player.


  • 1
Posted Image

BEASTLY!!!

#14 wendythirteenthrashers

wendythirteenthrashers

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 567 posts
  • Joined: 21-March 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:58 AM

I find when KASS gets more minutes he has a better game..... I was watching the Tampa game where Boucher has 5 thriving rookies.... Because he plays them to their strengths.... You also see him talking to his players.... That's a coach!
  • 2

#15 higgyfan

higgyfan

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,552 posts
  • Joined: 15-July 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:29 AM

I've never heard anyone say that Kass is a 'goon'. Most people on this board can see that he has some great skills and will eventually be an important player on this team. As we all know, players like Zak take longer to develop than the finesse players, as they have a broader game to learn. Having him play on different lines is the best way for him to learn the game. Giving him rewards (PP time and some shifts with the Sedins) will also keep him motivated. As far as I'm concerned, he was playing well with Booth and Higgy, which makes him a 3rd liner right now. In a couple of years, I think he will be a consistent 2nd liner.

I don't have a problem comparing him to Ott. Ott has been the most sought after player at trade deadline for the past couple of years. I am hopeful that Kass will outpace Ott and start looking more like Bert in the coming years.
  • 0

#16 Kack Zassian

Kack Zassian

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,240 posts
  • Joined: 06-January 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:00 AM

21 shots in his last 19 games.

Hes not generating nearly enough offense to deserve top-6 on a team (that is currently lacking 2/3 of its 2nd line).


  • 0

#17 wendythirteenthrashers

wendythirteenthrashers

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 567 posts
  • Joined: 21-March 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:09 AM

21 shots in his last 19 games.

Hes not generating nearly enough offense to deserve top-6 on a team (that is currently lacking 2/3 of its 2nd line).



And? ....... That's because he's not a PUCKHOG and is trying to make plays on limited minutes...... Sheesh....
  • 1

#18 Kack Zassian

Kack Zassian

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,240 posts
  • Joined: 06-January 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:15 AM

And? ....... That's because he's not a PUCKHOG and is trying to make plays on limited minutes...... Sheesh....


Try 15 shots in his first 7 games, (5 goals) and nothing since.

Shot volume is the greatest indicator of a players offensive possession. Zack isn't generating offense in any way right now.
  • 1

#19 Kack Zassian

Kack Zassian

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,240 posts
  • Joined: 06-January 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:16 AM

And? ....... That's because he's not a PUCKHOG and is trying to make plays on limited minutes...... Sheesh....


Also hes getting 15-16 minutes most nights.. Dont know what your idea of limited minutes is..
  • 1

#20 LeanBeef

LeanBeef

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,162 posts
  • Joined: 17-June 11

Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:21 AM

Try 15 shots in his first 7 games, (5 goals) and nothing since.

Shot volume is the greatest indicator of a players offensive possession. Zack isn't generating offense in any way right now.

If you actually watch Kassian (when not playing with the twins) he's the type of player that tries to setup other players. He set up Booth a ton of times, but he was unable to finish.

He's more of a playmaker, so he doesn't need to shoot as much when guys like Higgins and Booth are on the same line.
  • 0
Sig too big.
"Being a Canuck fan, maybe sometime down the road be a Vancouver Canuck.... that would conquer all my dreams"
-Milan Lucic

#21 Fred65

Fred65

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,025 posts
  • Joined: 19-April 10

Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:22 AM

The best any one do today when it comes to Kassian is .....hope.

I don't believe the stats he showed in junior have little to do with today he was a kid in a mans body. No one wanted a piece of Kassian, in the NHL there's a lot of guys that will challenge him and have the strength to push off on the guy. Stregth and size is not the only deciding factor. He has some skill but his operating system doesn't seem to be working to well. Needs to many reboots
  • 0

#22 Butters Stoch

Butters Stoch

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,641 posts
  • Joined: 23-March 07

Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:22 AM

Putting up points in JR and AHL doesn't mean anything. Steve Bernier was a power forward able to rip it up at every level before he played in the NHL but that hasn't gotten him very far in the NHL.
  • 1

sig by Malkin71

#23 stonecoldstevebernier

stonecoldstevebernier

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,774 posts
  • Joined: 05-November 09

Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:33 AM

He's still inexperienced and inconsistent, he's not going to be handed a spot on the top line and 1st unit PP without earning it. His excuse for not producing shouldn't be, "Oh, he's not playing with the Sedins anymore" - ever heard of secondary scoring? He's averaged 13:37 of ice time since he last scored. That's more than enough to get one goal. Even more so, considering he doesn't kill penalties like Hansen, Raymond, and Higgins do - you know, other wingers who don't play with the Sedins. His skill is there, his consistency isn't yet.
  • 0

Posted Image

3DS FC: 2664 3135 8148. Feel free to add me!


#24 timberz21

timberz21

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,659 posts
  • Joined: 24-July 06

Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:45 AM

Agree 100%, We need secondary scoring,

Kassian was scoring with the Sedins. Burrows can score by himself (maybe not as much as with the Sedins) but still

Been saying it all along

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian (1st line, no doubt about it)
Raymond-Schroeder-Burrows (offensive 2nd line, not top notch but still a 2nd line in most NHL teams)
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen (Defensive, gritty, some scoring ability)


Isn't it obvious?? Why is AV complicating his life with trying to play Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, Raymond at center when your top 3 is right there???? Isn,t he saying the team need to simplify their game lol??
  • 1

#25 wendythirteenthrashers

wendythirteenthrashers

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 567 posts
  • Joined: 21-March 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:56 AM

Try 15 shots in his first 7 games, (5 goals) and nothing since.

Shot volume is the greatest indicator of a players offensive possession. Zack isn't generating offense in any way right now.


Great.... Another stats ostrich.... He's an unselfish playmaker trying to set up his LINEMATES .... Kudos.... Our team could use a little more of that attribute in its players.... He shoots when there is no other option.... When he's not stapled to the bench of course....
  • 0

#26 Kack Zassian

Kack Zassian

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,240 posts
  • Joined: 06-January 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:09 PM

Great.... Another stats ostrich.... He's an unselfish playmaker trying to set up his LINEMATES .... Kudos.... Our team could use a little more of that attribute in its players.... He shoots when there is no other option.... When he's not stapled to the bench of course....


That explains his 1 assist in his last 14 games? His playmaking ability is really shining.

Now I will concede he has an extremely low PDO, so the bounces should start going his way. His on ice shooting percentage should bump up by about 50%. But his totals would really benefit from shooting more (generates rebounds, assists, overall scoring).

He's 7th in forwards for shots, but when you factor in Kesler and Booth being injured most of the season, 9th on the team in shots? He just isn't generating offensive chances.
  • 0

#27 Kack Zassian

Kack Zassian

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,240 posts
  • Joined: 06-January 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

If you actually watch Kassian (when not playing with the twins) he's the type of player that tries to setup other players. He set up Booth a ton of times, but he was unable to finish.

He's more of a playmaker, so he doesn't need to shoot as much when guys like Higgins and Booth are on the same line.


I know Kassian is typically a playmaker, and the last 10 game shis most frequent linemates were Booth and Lapierre.
(Booth was generating lots of shots, and generally was extremely unlucky during that stretch.

But during those last 10 games, I mean 11 shots, -6, just not productive hockey no matter how you look at it.
  • 1

#28 Kack Zassian

Kack Zassian

    Canucks Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,240 posts
  • Joined: 06-January 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:17 PM

Great.... Another stats ostrich.... He's an unselfish playmaker trying to set up his LINEMATES .... Kudos.... Our team could use a little more of that attribute in its players.... He shoots when there is no other option.... When he's not stapled to the bench of course....


His last 10 games TOI
- 12, 15, 15, 16, 12, 14, 14, 7, 15, 12.

Not exactly stapled to the bench.
  • 0

#29 Walkin'2929

Walkin'2929

    Comets Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 316 posts
  • Joined: 26-August 08

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:17 PM

#####################

Edited by Horseman, 20 March 2013 - 09:13 AM.

  • 0

#30 wendythirteenthrashers

wendythirteenthrashers

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 567 posts
  • Joined: 21-March 12

Posted 19 March 2013 - 12:24 PM

I can just see you with all your columns and columns of numbers heaped up beside your computer.... I like the kids energy and really wish he'd receive some guidance in what's expected of him.... He's soaking it all in..... And attempting creativity on the ice only to be punished for it..which is more than I can say for some of our veterans.... Av needs to stop sh!tting on the kid.... Period.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.