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Kassian is a Power Forward not a Grinder!


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#61 Guest_Gumballthechewy_*

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:05 AM

Try 15 shots in his first 7 games, (5 goals) and nothing since.

Shot volume is the greatest indicator of a players offensive possession. Zack isn't generating offense in any way right now.


What about Henrik? According to that logic Hank is a crappy offensive player.

Stats are only half the picture, if not less.

If you actually watch Kassian (when not playing with the twins) he's the type of player that tries to setup other players. He set up Booth a ton of times, but he was unable to finish.

He's more of a playmaker, so he doesn't need to shoot as much when guys like Higgins and Booth are on the same line.


Exactly. When he was with the Sedin's he was the trigger man, that's all he needed to be, on any other line he's more of a passer.

Kassian has all the tools to succeed in the NHL he just needs to learn consistency.

Edited by Gumballthechewy, 20 March 2013 - 09:07 AM.


#62 Drakrami

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:07 AM

So what was his AHL stats? If given play time and an offensive role, Kassian will shine. So why are his AHL stats horrible as well?

#63 brownky

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:21 AM

AV has probably lost the team, and we do need a coaching change but lets not forget what the man has acomplished.

I'm tired of people saying AV misshandes young tallent.

He does it the same with everyone.
Go back to Jr, play in the AHL.
work your way up the lineup while taking care of your end of the rink.

You can say he mishandled CoHo and Grabner because they dont play for us but part of the reason they thrive today was from the pace they developed.

It's frustrating, it's hard to watch, but it's best for the player.


He does it the same with everyone.

That's the start, and end of the problem. He is incapable of changing his methodology be it development or methodology and tactics. Not every young player responds to the same methods as others. A sign of a *great* coach is one who can get the most out of every single one of his players. Not 60% of them. If a player is not responding to the handling, throwing them under the bus again and again is not going to make them all of a sudden "get it", most of the time.

Hodgson was going to pan out no matter how badly he was handled by the coaching staff. Now he's got a chance to actually shine, and he's taken advantage. Grabner was given Tavares and a first line shot on the isles. And he ran with it. Here, he got fourth line or third line.

His accomplishments in the past are nothing. I'm not content with what he's accomplished; the stanley cup is the only thing that matters. He has not brought that, and by this years' performance from key players, he won't be the one to do it. His kick at the can has passed, give it to someone else.

#64 Monty

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:22 AM

Everyone needs to take a step back and remember just how young he is. Most players take time to develop. At 22 years of age, there's no reason for people to start panicking. One of the best examples I'll use right now is Blake Wheeler. It has taken Wheeler 8 years since being drafted, and he's finally turned into a 60 point player. It's going to take time with Kassian.

Can you imagine drowning AT a KK Rev concert?

  


i'm pretty sure that's how zombies are born.


#65 Kack Zassian

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:31 AM

So what was his AHL stats? If given play time and an offensive role, Kassian will shine. So why are his AHL stats horrible as well?


Our AHL team has had a knack for not being a very offensive system.
(Look at Hodgsons numbers).

I think Raymond was our last PPG player in the AHL.

#66 chrisbanks

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:35 AM

Brad Isbister had more points in Jrs... and the way kassian is playing he would be lucky to turn into a Brad Isbister

#67 Kack Zassian

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:39 AM

What about Henrik? According to that logic Hank is a crappy offensive player.

Stats are only half the picture, if not less.


I should clarify, on ice shot differential is the greatest offensive possession metric (corsi).

Kassian has ~7 corsi, which isn't bad. But when you weigh that against Booth (his modt frequent linemate the last 10 games) hes posting Sedin-like corsi. ~20, it puts Zacks number into perspective.

#68 Hugemanskost

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:49 AM

So what was his AHL stats? If given play time and an offensive role, Kassian will shine. So why are his AHL stats horrible as well?


46 points in 58 games is horrible? Wouldn't mind a few more guys like that on the Canucks!

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#69 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:19 AM

Try 15 shots in his first 7 games, (5 goals) and nothing since.

Shot volume is the greatest indicator of a players offensive possession. Zack isn't generating offense in any way right now.


Gotta consider minutes played though. If a guy gets 2 shots a game but plays 7 minutes... If that same guy gets 2 shots a game and plays 22 minutes... Not the same ratio...

Kassian's production dropped when he was put on bottom lines. Normal.

Again, the Sedins are being manhandled, shut down, with no retribution from who? Burrows? I trust that MG's "the guy" would be far better at defending the Sedins than AV's guy; Burrows.

Also, the Sedins will produce anyways while putting Burrows on other lines instantly sparks them up. That would be spreading the wealth amongst the rest of the forwards and subsequently increase secondary scoring.

But that's just a far fetched idea.

#70 Guest_Gumballthechewy_*

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:36 AM

I should clarify, on ice shot differential is the greatest offensive possession metric (corsi).

Kassian has ~7 corsi, which isn't bad. But when you weigh that against Booth (his modt frequent linemate the last 10 games) hes posting Sedin-like corsi. ~20, it puts Zacks number into perspective.


Oh, ok. I'll take your word for it, that stuff doesn't mean much to me, it all confusing. :P

#71 Kack Zassian

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:47 AM

Gotta consider minutes played though. If a guy gets 2 shots a game but plays 7 minutes... If that same guy gets 2 shots a game and plays 22 minutes... Not the same ratio...

Kassian's production dropped when he was put on bottom lines. Normal.

Again, the Sedins are being manhandled, shut down, with no retribution from who? Burrows? I trust that MG's "the guy" would be far better at defending the Sedins than AV's guy; Burrows.

Also, the Sedins will produce anyways while putting Burrows on other lines instantly sparks them up. That would be spreading the wealth amongst the rest of the forwards and subsequently increase secondary scoring.

But that's just a far fetched idea.


Kassian was also shooting 33% with the Sedins which was ridiculously unsustainable.

Most nights hes getting 15-16 minutes a game.. So the ice time is there (he likely would have got a few assists if Booths shooting % werent so low).



#72 TimberWolf

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:05 PM

Brad Isbister had more points in Jrs... and the way kassian is playing he would be lucky to turn into a Brad Isbister


There is concern and just plain wanting someone to fail.

Kassian will be fine, try not to be too miserable when that happens.

I was saying Lu-Urns...

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#73 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

Kassian has to earn it, it shouldn't be given to him. Until he decides to play hard on both sides of the puck, he can stay on the 4th line as far as I'm concerned.


He also sucks at passing and cycling - hard to call him a first liner until that is in his repertoire - and he can't get big ice-time till he can defend - which he has shown little interest in being conscienstious about so far.

#74 cbdoubleu

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

When are they going to tell Kassian this spendid news?

#75 CanadianRugby

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:01 PM

I can't believe there are still people defending Kassian's play this season.

Right now.. Sestito > Kassian

Kassian just looks lost out there. Send him to the minors and bring him up when he learns the system and is capable of getting out of his own zone without turning the puck over half the time. Hopefully the Sedins haven't retired by then.

#76 Kryten

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:12 PM

W
O
O
S
H


Lol, in my defense there are a few posters in this topic on my ignore list. Blissfull ignorance comes with a price.
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#77 bossram

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:34 PM

Kassian isn't being treated. 3rd line minutes is what he should be getting right now.

AV had made every player who came up through the system earn their way here. Kesler, Burrows, Hansen, even the Sedins all had to work their way up the lineup. Kassian will too. He won't be gifted anything. And that's how it should be.
What is the deal with Mike Gillis, it always seems like he's sweating...

#78 Hairy Kneel

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:53 PM

While he's injured we should look at trying a couple young guys like the Lain or Gaunce or whomever and see whose good on faceoffs and find a 4th line alternate (strictly focusing on face off wins)

#79 PLOGUE

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

Until he learns the following, he isn't a grinder or a power forward:
1. Hard work is required, every off day, every practice, every minute of every shift, every off season.
2. Defensive awareness.
3. Consistency. This kid flies one game/shift and coasts for two to three after that.
4. Not to sulk. My opinion is that Kassian disappeared for four games after he was demoted to the fourth line because he was mad. Should be trying even harder to gain your spot back, not making it easier to leave you there.

Same goes for Ballard. Prove your worth before you think you are entitled to special treatment. You want to be treated like the Sedins or Edler. Work as hard as they have for their careers.

QUOTE (ephysdad @ Oct 26 2008, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Or then of course there's always the Ferry

Also,
I'm putting together a list of the criteria to be a "real" Canuck's fan. So far I have this:

1. I cheer for the Canucks, whatever happens.
2. I never say anything bad about the Canucks.
3. I know the difference between "real" fans and posers just by how they post on the CDC or where they sit at GM Place.
4. I wouldn't dream of leaving a game before it ended, even if it meant missing a train, ferry or a threesome with the wife and her hot best friend?
5. I make 10+ posts a day and I have over 10,000 posts on the CDC, so my Canuck "street-cred" is huge. Go away noob!
6. No one F's with me. I train in MMA. I'm really tough. I'll curb stomp yo' donkey.
7. I make a tonne of $$$$.
8. I'm witty.
9. If it meant missing a game, I wouldn't study for a midterm.
10. I roll with a guy who has a wicked car.
11. I like to post "source?" a lot.


#80 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:46 PM

Funny how fans have turned on Edler, you'll love him again as soon as he starts putting up points. lol You fickle fans are hilarious, ohh pickles, wait I want onions... No cheeeesseeeee! Just shut the hell up. :emot-parrot:

"It's an opportunity, we don't look at it as a last chance... We look at it as an opportunity to do something great. We are going to take it period by period, shift by shift. You just have to be better than the guy across from you... Every guy in this locker room I can say believes we can do this." - Ryan Kesler

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#81 senorsnipes

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 08:16 AM

I agree!!!! The kid is young, fast, and has good vision w/hands. He should become a Lucic type player.




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