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Would You Trade a Top-4 D-man For a Top-6 Forward?

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#61 Monteeun

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:07 PM

When J-Bow was a UFA, CDC went absolutely bananas wanting him over resigning Kesler and a few other core players.

It was comedy hour.

Try not to remind me again that people actually wanted Camalarri and Gabby over resigning the Twins.

Yeah, that happened here.


I do not believe you. :frantic:
I refuse too.
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BAD MOVE!!!

BAD FING MOVE

HAHAHA ANOTHER INJURED MORON ON OUR TEAM

HE WILL JOIN US IN 2019

Benning will be fired next year. Hope he enjoys screwing around for a few months. I just cant believe this. Another injured BC player. We just got rid of garrison. Seems like the canucks and linden just wanted any BC born player. Doesn't matter if hes good or not. We don't need another Linden to get us to game 7 of the Stanley cup and lose. We need someone to win us a cup.

5 million a year for Vrbata? 6 million for Miller? Kesler for Bonino and 24th instead of 10th pick or one of their top prospects? Garrison for scraps?

ive already lost faith in JB. Ive never EVER had this bad of a feeling about management.

 


#62 Mike27

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:12 PM

Edler's salary is killing us? Dude, the guy took a discount. Do you know how many worse defenseman are making more money? How about paying Garrison 4.6M - a whole 400K less than Edler's 5.0M - for his 4 goals and 7 points?

Wow.

Let's not forget Edler's salary is $3.2 m, making him the 5th best paid dman on the Canucks. His new contract doesn't start until next year. The guy who said Edler's contract was killing us clearly has no idea what he is talking about
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Trade Bieksa? Not even if it was a one for one deal for a guy like Ovechkin. And I am being serious. Linden53

#63 Monteeun

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:13 PM

Let's not forget Edler's salary is $3.2 m, making him the 5th best paid dman on the Canucks. His new contract doesn't start until next year. The guy who said Edler's contract was killing us clearly has no idea what he is talking about


Maybe he's thinking of the 5 mil in terms of if his plays continues the way it is. Its a small mistake.

Right now of course its no big deal. Or not big of a deal just yet.

Edited by Monteeun, 20 March 2013 - 08:14 PM.

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BAD MOVE!!!

BAD FING MOVE

HAHAHA ANOTHER INJURED MORON ON OUR TEAM

HE WILL JOIN US IN 2019

Benning will be fired next year. Hope he enjoys screwing around for a few months. I just cant believe this. Another injured BC player. We just got rid of garrison. Seems like the canucks and linden just wanted any BC born player. Doesn't matter if hes good or not. We don't need another Linden to get us to game 7 of the Stanley cup and lose. We need someone to win us a cup.

5 million a year for Vrbata? 6 million for Miller? Kesler for Bonino and 24th instead of 10th pick or one of their top prospects? Garrison for scraps?

ive already lost faith in JB. Ive never EVER had this bad of a feeling about management.

 


#64 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:18 PM

I do not believe you. :frantic:
I refuse too.


Well, as a fellow Class Of 03-er, we have all seen our fair share of ridiculous musings from this board.
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#65 Monteeun

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:20 PM

Well, as a fellow Class Of 03-er, we have all seen our fair share of ridiculous musings from this board.


:emot-parrot:
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BAD MOVE!!!

BAD FING MOVE

HAHAHA ANOTHER INJURED MORON ON OUR TEAM

HE WILL JOIN US IN 2019

Benning will be fired next year. Hope he enjoys screwing around for a few months. I just cant believe this. Another injured BC player. We just got rid of garrison. Seems like the canucks and linden just wanted any BC born player. Doesn't matter if hes good or not. We don't need another Linden to get us to game 7 of the Stanley cup and lose. We need someone to win us a cup.

5 million a year for Vrbata? 6 million for Miller? Kesler for Bonino and 24th instead of 10th pick or one of their top prospects? Garrison for scraps?

ive already lost faith in JB. Ive never EVER had this bad of a feeling about management.

 


#66 ikillchicken

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:36 PM

You don't need to be good offensively to be a d-man. A defenseman has to be good defensively. Go figure right?



The presumption that defenseman = defensive and forward = offensive is an outdated relic of thinking. There are more defensive players and there are more offensive players. Obviously the offensive ones can't be a liability defensively (this goes for forwards and D men) but that's about as far as it goes. Dismissing offensive ability as a complete second fiddle to defensive play simply because it comes from a defenseman is foolish. The fact that the Canucks entire defense can move the puck well and help out offensively has been a huge part of our success in the past. If we were to move a guy like Edler we could suddenly find that capacity majorly diminished with even a single injury.

Plus we have so many two way defensemen in Garrison, Bieksa, Hamhuis, and Ballard that Edler is expendable.


Yeah, if Ballard suddenly turns into an effective offensive and defensive player, we maybe could afford to move a D. But neither of those things have happened in his time here so far. Hence I have no desire to count on it happening going forward.
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#67 Alex Burrows 14

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:43 PM

Edler put up 49 points last year sure, but he was a +/- of 0!!! He's a defensive disaster waiting to happen. Take Smith and a pick and run.


R u being serious right now? LOL thats funny.

Ya he is not great defensively but you can teach defense, you cant teach his offense.

Edler is worth way more then that
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#68 etsen3

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:27 PM

Depends on which Top 4 D and which Top 6 forward. Obviously if Pittsburgh offered up Crosby for Edler (as an extreme example) I'm taking it 11 times out of 10.
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#69 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:41 PM

Edler, Schroeder, Booth, two 1st round picks for Shea Weber. lol jp

Naw, if any of the D needs to be traded it's Keith Ballard... He gets paid too much to play in the bottom two and he keeps getting scratched by AV anyways. :rolleyes:
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"It's an opportunity, we don't look at it as a last chance... We look at it as an opportunity to do something great. We are going to take it period by period, shift by shift. You just have to be better than the guy across from you... Every guy in this locker room I can say believes we can do this." - Ryan Kesler

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#70 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:51 PM

trade edler? bc he's having a tough year after an all star year and he's 26?

you people are simply idiots

you want to blame one player who is our best young defenseman who's having an off year.

well look at our goals against people, of the playoff teamsin the west we're the worst.

does Edler have something to do with that of course, but the whole defense is playing terrible, the whole team is playing terrible defensively, and the coaching staff have alot to do with that as well.

you people think so damn short term its actually unbeleivable.

a guy is having a tough year so move him, even when its a team issue???. and then what in 2 years he's proving that he was the all star he was showing and he's 28 then what

all you idiots will then whine about how bad a trade it was

Edited by BuretoMogilny, 20 March 2013 - 10:06 PM.

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#71 Ron_Burgundy

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:01 PM

Keep our top 6, try to trade Ballard and Lou for a 3rd line center and a backup goalie. With the way Alberts and Barker have played this year, I'd say we have enough depth at D.

Or trade Edler or Bieksa for a 2nd line scoring center.
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#72 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:20 PM

According to many, Ballard is a top-4 d-man.

We're gonna have to do something with regards to shedding space on D. Esp. w Tanev's RFA status.

Edler is the only guy on the OP's list without a NTC. But he's also the only one with any untapped top-tier potential.

The problem isn't so much our top-4 as it is spending so much on our bottom pairing. Not many teams do that for as long as we have. But imho it's all part of our duty as a Canadian franchise to subsidize the mistakes made by southern teams' GM's.

We inherited Florida. They are our pathetic kid brother franchise that always shows up to dump off laundry and borrow money.

TO bails out teams. Montreal bails out teams. Calgary picks up scraps. Winnipeg picks up scraps. Ottawa too. Edmonton has a bit more trouble with this as not even scraps want to play there.

Well i'm getting kinda sick of it, myself. It's this kinda cap wasteage that will only ensure we never winna cup.
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#73 Burr's bandwagon

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:30 PM

Couple ideas with Philly involved

To Vancouver: Sean Couturier, Nick Cousins

To Philly: Alex Edler

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Couturier - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Higgins - Lapierre - Weise

or

To Vancouver: Wayne Simmonds

To Philly: Alex Edler

Sedin - Sedin - Simmonds
Burrows - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Higgins - Lapierre - Weise



Edler for Simmonds?? Now i've heard it all.. :picard:
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#74 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:52 PM

NTC's side, theoretically speaking, would you trade one of our top 4 defensemen (Hamhuis, Edler, Bieksa, Garrison) for a bonafide top 6 forward? I love our team's depth on D but I think our team is one game changing forward from elite status - which has been compounded by the loss of Kesler and Booth to injury.

Alberts and Barker haven't been horrible by any means and Tanev has taken significant strides this year. I would not be hesitant to field D pairs of Hamhuis-Bieksa, Edler-Tanev, and a combination of Ballard/Alberts/Barker/Vandermeer if it meant augmenting the forwards corp in a manner that would allow them to provide another ~goal per game, which could very well mean the difference between win or lose.

In addition, this would force our second/third line tweeners Raymond, Higgins and Hansen into roles where they would have better chances to succeed against lesser opposition. A bottom six of Raymond, Higgins, Hansen, Lapierre, Schroeder, Kassian, Pinnizotto and Weise looks pretty solid to me. Of course one of these players would have to move up pending Booth's return.

Consider the percentage of our cap tied up in our defenders when we can only dress 6 as opposed to 12 forwards. But the combined (4.6 Bieksa + 4.6 Garrison + 4.5 Hamhuis + 4.2 Ballard + 3.25 Edler + 0.9 Tanev) 21.05 million we have tied up in cap in addition to the 9.3M in goalies adds up to nearly half of next year's 64M salary cap.

Under next year's cap (WITH Burrows and Edler's raises), this averages to 4M per goalie and defender and we have the remaining 32M for 12 forwards (12M remaining for 9 players with Sedins, Kesler, Burrows accounted for). Surely a salary redistribution is in order. By the way, these numbers do not include our 13th forward or our #7+8 defensemen.

Some notes - this is based on our current roster, assuming Kesler returns to form.

So! Would you and if so who would you trade? Or who you like to see acquired? You don't necessarily have to provide a proposal, even just players you'd like to see in blue and green.

Go Canucks go!


Actually, this is really only an argument for drafting and developing quality prospects and getting younger. Quality players at any position are costly. When we struggle on defence, swapping a top four D for another supposed top six forward is a joke - isn't that what Booth and Burrows were supposed to be at 4.2? How about eating one of thoe contracts instead, along with one of Ballard or Luongo's and there you go - cap room - but you need inexpensive prospects to fill key spots - our most likely to be useful young are Gaunce and Jensen - in the absence of Hodgson and Grabner. D is harder to fill with youth - we lucked out with Tanev - but we need a couple more - maybe Corrado? Connauton looks unlikely because of his poor D, McNally needs to make up for his year of suspension. Andersson is steady, but is he ready?
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#75 Moonshinefe

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:55 PM

If it was an awesome forward for Edler (legit 30+ goal scorer, not David Booth), sure. If it was a 20+ goal scorer for Ballard, sure... Not sure I'd want to part with anyone else at this point.

Edited by Moonshinefe, 20 March 2013 - 10:55 PM.

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#76 The Big Luongo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:06 PM

Edler is greatly overrated so i would package him, Raymond and Luongo for something big possibly even a 1st rounder also and fix this team up for a cup run.

Then i would call up K Connauton and have him play lots of PP time and see what he's got.


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#77 The Big Luongo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:17 PM

trade edler? bc he's having a tough year after an all star year and he's 26?

you people are simply idiots

you want to blame one player who is our best young defenseman who's having an off year.

well look at our goals against people, of the playoff teamsin the west we're the worst.

does Edler have something to do with that of course, but the whole defense is playing terrible, the whole team is playing terrible defensively, and the coaching staff have alot to do with that as well.

you people think so damn short term its actually unbeleivable.

a guy is having a tough year so move him, even when its a team issue???. and then what in 2 years he's proving that he was the all star he was showing and he's 28 then what

all you idiots will then whine about how bad a trade it was


Tough year?? Ya right i wish!!

You're living in lala land buddy if you think this is the first time Edler has struggled defensively. Edler has been as brutal as last years playoffs and half of this season more times then not throughout his career.

The guy is soft as butter, has no heart whatsoever and is a liability pretty much all over the ice.

The only difference is now people are finally noticing how incompetent he is and how much he can hurt this team.
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#78 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:19 PM

Tough year?? Ya right i wish!!

You're living in lala land buddy if you think this is the first time Edler has struggled defensively. Edler has been as brutal as last years playoffs and half of this season more times then not throughout his career.

The guy is soft as butter, has no heart whatsoever and is a liability pretty much all over the ice.

The only difference is now people are finally noticing how incompetent he is and how much he can hurt this team.


Hyperbole much?
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#79 Pears

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:20 PM

Edler for Simmonds?? Now i've heard it all.. :picard:

How is Edler for Simmonds a bad trade? Philly gets the top pair D man they've been looking for and we get the top six power forward we've been looking for. This is a hockey trade if I've ever seen one
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#80 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:22 PM

How is Edler for Simmonds a bad trade? Philly gets the top pair D man they've been looking for and we get the top six power forward we've been looking for. This is a hockey trade if I've ever seen one


Its probably because its a touch lopsided. Eddie can garner more i suspect.

The Canucks really do not need another winger.
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#81 Pears

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:23 PM

Hyperbole much?

The guy hates Edler so I wouldn't put much merrit into what he says.

And honestly guys, I know some of you don't want to trade him, but if we traded Edler for a top six forward (preferably a 1st liner), and then got a top 4 right handed D man for Luongo and won a Cup, would it be worth it?
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#82 Pears

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:24 PM

Its probably because its a touch lopsided. Eddie can garner more i suspect.

The Canucks really do not need another winger.

Yea you're right. I was thinking of a Edler for Couturier+Simmonds deal but figured I would get flamed so I resorted to Edler for Simmonds straight up
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#83 Kryten

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:28 PM

Hyperbole much?


None at all. He is spot on.
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#84 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:31 PM

The guy hates Edler so I wouldn't put much merrit into what he says.

And honestly guys, I know some of you don't want to trade him, but if we traded Edler for a top six forward (preferably a 1st liner), and then got a top 4 right handed D man for Luongo and won a Cup, would it be worth it?


Teams would covet Edler. For sure. There is a lot of upside.

For conversations sake, if trading him brought in a FO specialist and a RH D man. Im all for it. And GMs usually state if theres a deal that can be made that would improve the team, they would seriously consider the possibilities.

As it stands, it seems like GMs would be hesitant on trading away core players at this junction, unless of course you are one of the teams bottom dwelling.

Even then, if i was a GM, i would be hard pressed to think of trades in a short season.

A thing you might want to consider is that you are subtracting size from the blueline, and Eddie may not be hampered by back issues after a summer of rest. So its risky, but you could speculate he would yield a decent return.
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#85 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:34 PM

None at all. He is spot on.


Nope he is exaggerating.

And im not saying that to be an apologist. He sure has not been as good as he can be. But he has been better in the past, and struggled with consistency.

He was actually wonderful last year. Took on his new role and ran with it.

This year after major back surgery, not so much.
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#86 Kryten

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:35 PM

Teams would covet Edler. For sure. There is a lot of upside.

For conversations sake, if trading him brought in a FO specialist and a RH D man. Im all for it. And GMs usually state if theres a deal that can be made that would improve the team, they would seriously consider the possibilities.

As it stands, it seems like GMs would be hesitant on trading away core players at this junction, unless of course you are one of the teams bottom dwelling.

Even then, if i was a GM, i would be hard pressed to think of trades in a short season.

A thing you might want to consider is that you are subtracting size from the blueline, and Eddie may not be hampered by back issues after a summer of rest. So its risky, but you could speculate he would yield a decent return.


I agree with this. That means we are stuck with Eddie for better or worse. I hope Eddie grows a backbone, and keeps it from getting any injured than it already is.
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#87 Phil_314

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:35 PM

Yes. I like Edler for Bobby Ryan. Straight up.


Within the context of this discussion I'd say either do that or get Eberle/ Voracek.

Ryan could center the 2nd power play and be either the play maker or finish plays off himself.

Jordan could be useful since he's smart, has a good shot and is right handed and aside from Kes the team doesn't really have a consistent right-handed scorer on the PP, which could result in lots of missed one-timer opportunities.

Voracek would be great as well, could be the 2nd line play making winger Kes could use.

Ryan - Kes // Kes - Eberle // Kes - Voracek

I'd do any of those if the team could get another right handed D-man to play in the Top 4 with Garrison.
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#88 The Big Luongo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:37 PM

The guy hates Edler so I wouldn't put much merrit into what he says.

And honestly guys, I know some of you don't want to trade him, but if we traded Edler for a top six forward (preferably a 1st liner), and then got a top 4 right handed D man for Luongo and won a Cup, would it be worth it?


Haha you always get all sensitive whenever i say anything bad about your little bf Edler.

The guy is what i said he is face it buddy.

Soft as butter, no heart, mistake prone and not improving one bit and hurting the team.
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#89 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:39 PM

I agree with this. That means we are stuck with Eddie for better or worse. I hope Eddie grows a backbone, and keeps it from getting any injured than it already is.


No pun intended? :bigblush:
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#90 Pears

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:44 PM

Haha you always get all sensitive whenever i say anything bad about your little bf Edler.

The guy is what i said he is face it buddy.

Soft as butter, no heart, mistake prone and not improving one bit and hurting the team.

If Edler is as bad as you say it is, explain how he was tied for 13th in Norris voting?

Edited by Steven Stamkos' Mullet, 20 March 2013 - 11:46 PM.

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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it






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