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Would You Trade a Top-4 D-man For a Top-6 Forward?

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#91 The Big Luongo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:45 PM

Hyperbole much?


You're just another guy in denial if you think otherwise.
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#92 Moonshinefe

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:49 PM

Yea you're right. I was thinking of a Edler for Couturier+Simmonds deal but figured I would get flamed so I resorted to Edler for Simmonds straight up


Couturier + Simmonds would be an over payment imo for Edler. But the Flyers are desperate, so who knows...

I actually don't think the Simmonds vs. Edler trade was that absurd. It's a bit of a gamble, Edler has been nowhere near expectations with his contract this season so far, while Simmonds is a guaranteed, net crashing winger who can score 20+ goals and can fight. Something the Canucks need desperately right now (and philly could use a high end D-man)

It all depends if Edler can return to form when he signed his contract.

Edited by Moonshinefe, 20 March 2013 - 11:53 PM.

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#93 Kryten

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:51 PM

Nope he is exaggerating.

And im not saying that to be an apologist. He sure has not been as good as he can be. But he has been better in the past, and struggled with consistency.

He was actually wonderful last year. Took on his new role and ran with it.

This year after major back surgery, not so much.


I disagree with this statement. As an ex-dman, I tend to watch them more closely than the others, and I have been unhappy with Edler since his rookie year (although I cut him slack like I would any rookie or sophomore looking to find their game). My problem with him is that he hasn't ever learned from his mistakes. He has a fantastic shot and a keen offensive hockey mind, but his puck handling, puck moving and defensive skills have always been subpar. Now it could be a lack of quality coaching that is holding him back (the regression of his teammates may be an indicator), but after seeing him play for this many years and not ironing out some of his problems on his own is disconcerting. I do believe his injury is making him play worse than his capabilities and how that may affect his ability to reach full potential worries me. If his potential is reached, then great, we can all shake hands and be happy. What worries me is how long do we have to wait for this to take place, if ever? Personally, I am done waiting.

Edit: And yes the pun was unfortunately intended, I was unsuccessful in trying to keep a lid on it. My apologies.

Edited by Kryten, 20 March 2013 - 11:54 PM.

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#94 TheRocket18

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:52 PM

get rid of a goalie first, don't trade the horse, trade the dman the coach doesn't play. get rh dman, edler more comfortable on left side.
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#95 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:18 AM

I disagree with this statement. As an ex-dman, I tend to watch them more closely than the others, and I have been unhappy with Edler since his rookie year (although I cut him slack like I would any rookie or sophomore looking to find their game). My problem with him is that he hasn't ever learned from his mistakes. He has a fantastic shot and a keen offensive hockey mind, but his puck handling, puck moving and defensive skills have always been subpar. Now it could be a lack of quality coaching that is holding him back (the regression of his teammates may be an indicator), but after seeing him play for this many years and not ironing out some of his problems on his own is disconcerting. I do believe his injury is making him play worse than his capabilities and how that may affect his ability to reach full potential worries me. If his potential is reached, then great, we can all shake hands and be happy. What worries me is how long do we have to wait for this to take place, if ever? Personally, I am done waiting.

Edit: And yes the pun was unfortunately intended, I was unsuccessful in trying to keep a lid on it. My apologies.


I usually played D as well in my Hockey playing, so im with you on watching the D-men do their work.

There is actually not alot i disagree with you on at all, because that is closer to what may be the truth than just a few off hand critiques that do not encompass what he brings or does not bring so far this season.

I do disagree about his season last year. He was given heavier minutes, and basically was asked to replace Ehrhoff. And i think he did a great job. So its cool to see things differently.

Eddie is interesting, because i do not blame anyone for being done with him. By virtue of the fact that i agree that its mystifying how he has not learned from his mistakes.

His mistakes are usually the same. And as you know, D is a peculiar position because you can teach it. Why he has not adjusted and shed his negative tendencies is beyond me.

You thoughtfully listed his usual deficiencies. But when he actually has a game where he is sound and those negatives are not there, he is excellent.

Therein lies the problem. Packaging it all together.

A mistake free Eddie would be huge for the team.

Id like to know why he doesnt play simpler until he is fully 100 per cent. Its why i think he may be getting mixed signals from coaches and his teammates.

He is not the only guy capable of generating offence from the blueline.

BTW: The pun was funny, intentional or not. ;)

Edited by BedBeats™2.0, 21 March 2013 - 12:19 AM.

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#96 BuretoMogilny

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:24 AM

Tough year?? Ya right i wish!!

You're living in lala land buddy if you think this is the first time Edler has struggled defensively. Edler has been as brutal as last years playoffs and half of this season more times then not throughout his career.

The guy is soft as butter, has no heart whatsoever and is a liability pretty much all over the ice.

The only difference is now people are finally noticing how incompetent he is and how much he can hurt this team.



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#97 kmotamed

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:30 AM

Well, technically Ballard could be a top 4 D on most other teams, so yes, I would be willing to trade him for a power forward/playmaker/sniper of some kind!
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#98 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:18 AM

get rid of a goalie first, don't trade the horse, trade the dman the coach doesn't play. get rh dman, edler more comfortable on left side.

Well, technically Ballard could be a top 4 D on most other teams, so yes, I would be willing to trade him for a power forward/playmaker/sniper of some kind!


AV has turned him into a guy who can't even play in the top six D's - and we pay him 4 mil - what the heck do you think we will get for a guy who has been turned into a player who is extremely over-payed? You sure won't get a forward of any value whatsoever.
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#99 OrrFour

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:40 AM

There is no way I'd trade one of our righties: bieksa, tanev.
I would consider trading one of our lefties: ham, edler, garrison.
But we would have to get back a CENTER! We have wingers coming out of our ears.
The center would have to be as young as whoever we give up and be a capable second liner.
If we can't get that center back then forget it.

Then I'd try to find another rightie defender for the third pair. We can trade a winger for this.
Lu ain't moving til after the season unfortunately.
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#100 kassians_fist

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:54 AM

No way should bieksa be traded. There are some players who are the heart and soul of the team, the core, and he is one of them. Yeah he has some bad games, everyone does. He brings a ton to this team.
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#101 Kryten

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:14 AM

I usually played D as well in my Hockey playing, so im with you on watching the D-men do their work.

There is actually not alot i disagree with you on at all, because that is closer to what may be the truth than just a few off hand critiques that do not encompass what he brings or does not bring so far this season.

I do disagree about his season last year. He was given heavier minutes, and basically was asked to replace Ehrhoff. And i think he did a great job. So its cool to see things differently.

Eddie is interesting, because i do not blame anyone for being done with him. By virtue of the fact that i agree that its mystifying how he has not learned from his mistakes.

His mistakes are usually the same. And as you know, D is a peculiar position because you can teach it. Why he has not adjusted and shed his negative tendencies is beyond me.

You thoughtfully listed his usual deficiencies. But when he actually has a game where he is sound and those negatives are not there, he is excellent.

Therein lies the problem. Packaging it all together.

A mistake free Eddie would be huge for the team.


Id like to know why he doesnt play simpler until he is fully 100 per cent. Its why i think he may be getting mixed signals from coaches and his teammates.

He is not the only guy capable of generating offence from the blueline.

BTW: The pun was funny, intentional or not. ;)


My feelings as well. Good to know you're a hockey guy as well, my tendency to yell first and placate after can be met with understanding :) . As for Edler, he needs like treatment (support and/or a kick in the ***), but it won't be coming from us unfortunately. I hope somebody steps up to the plate and teaches this kid how to play D like a champ (I may be tipping my hand that I am not a fan of Bowness). Maybe somebody can kidnap Stevens from Jersey.

Thanks for the convo (and not kicking my teeth in for the pun), you actually made me feel better about Edler's chances to turn things around. Nothing wrong with hoping anyways, cheers!
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#102 Kassian's Face

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:09 AM

Great discussion OP!

I would not trade Bieksa. He is a clutch goal scorer and can step it up when it counts. He is a deal at his salary and he wins us games.

I would not trade Hamhuis. He is one of the best 2 way defensemen in the league, and he stops us from losing games.

I would not trade Edler. He will take some time to recover like Raymond did. He will be one of the best in the next couple years.

I would trade Garrison. Although he is getting better, he is expendable compared to the others.

I would trade Ballard. Because trading him is a better option then a buy out.

I would trade Tanev. Tanev is our best defensive defensemen. But he is RFA next year and unless we dump at least 2 of the defensemen I listed above, we can't afford him. Also think of what his trade value is. He has got to be worth a 4 million dollar forward.
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#103 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:44 AM

I'd hold onto Edler for now. I feel like he could explode any day now and quite frankly he is a star in the making - he will have a great career and defencemen like him don't come along very often. Plus he's huge and CAN play amazingly in the playoffs. Arguably one of the biggest reasons we beat the Blackhawks, but also one of the biggest reasons we lost to L.A.

Garrison has silently been one of our best defencemen. On pace for 12 goals over a full schedule and is our best +/- defenceman, plus he brings physicality in front of our net that we haven't had since Willie Mitchell. This guy will be huge for us in the playoffs.

Bieksa has upped his game big time this season. He's playing physically, throwing big hits but more importantly hasn't had anywhere near as many brainfarts as he has before, and is on pace to set career highs in goals (over a full season). This guy is a true leader on this team, and the defence capitulated without him so he's untouchable.

As for the rest...Hamhuis has been brutal all season long. Racking up a lot of secondary assists, but has not been steady in his own zone, plenty of turnovers and shocking coverage in the crease. Tanev has shown signs of a young defenceman at times but is still great for the #5 spot, he shouldn't be getting 20 minutes a game though. Ballard has been horrible lately and only plays well if he plays lots. Great for the #6 spot considering if we have a top-4 injury or two, he can step up and play 20 minutes well. He only struggles when he's limited to 15-18 minutes a game. This guy needs to get into a rhythm to play well - scratching him every second game doesn't help.

We have Vandermeer, Barker and Alberts who are all capable of 15-19 minutes of solid physical defensive hockey which makes a top-6 guy expendable. Ballard really should be gone for a 3rd line forward, pushing Hansen/Raymond/Higgins/Kassian up into our top-6.
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#104 deebow420

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:19 AM

Some nights i wanna trade any of our defencemen for a cabbage salad! And its not that i really like cabbage salad either.
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#105 Tangelos

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:41 AM

People keep saying Edler has potential or is still young and will be a top D-man in his prime. Well he's 26 now and players tend to hit their peak at 27. That's the age where what you see is what you get. If you're not a top D-man by 27, then chances are you won't be one by 28.
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#106 LionofJudah

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:36 AM

Couple ideas with Philly involved

To Vancouver: Sean Couturier, Nick Cousins

To Philly: Alex Edler

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Couturier - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Higgins - Lapierre - Weise

or

To Vancouver: Wayne Simmonds

To Philly: Alex Edler

Sedin - Sedin - Simmonds
Burrows - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen
Higgins - Lapierre - Weise


I'd love to have Simmonds on our team. Every time I watch Philly play I think this. He works his tail off every shift and will also fight. I'd be happy with whatever got him here, that said though, do we really need another winger. I'm torn.
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#107 Snake Doctor

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:51 AM

Just Ballard.
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#108 Onions

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:59 AM

Ballard, possibly Garrison depending on what's coming back our way.

No way we can trade Hamhuis. We have D depth but not that much depth to trade away a solid shut down D-man (unless another shut down D-man is coming our way)
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#109 Understand

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:18 PM

I'd be open to trading away Edler and getting a young right-handed d-man in a goalie trade (Schneider package for Carlson? Gudbranson?). Probably won't happen though.


But Elder does not play like a top 4 D man in most night...other GMs are not stupid.
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#110 ikillchicken

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:30 PM

Garrison has silently been one of our best defencemen. On pace for 12 goals over a full schedule and is our best +/- defenceman, plus he brings physicality in front of our net that we haven't had since Willie Mitchell. This guy will be huge for us in the playoffs.


Thank you!

It seems like the vast majority of fans pretty much watched Garrison for the first week of the season, decided he was mediocre/a bust and have just been parroting that same opinion ever since. In fact though, after a brief period of adjustment he has quickly become arguably our best defenseman. Not only is he scoring goals (despite little powerplay time) but he is also great defensively. He is big and strong and brings an element of physicality and protection for the front of the net that Hamhuis lacks. Together they make a great shutdown pair while simultaneously bringing a nice offensive combination of puckmoving and shooting ability (reminds me a bit of Suter/Weber although obviously to a much lesser degree).
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#111 Monty

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:39 PM

Wow, can't believe how little people value Edler.

As a Jets fan, we really don't need another defenseman, but if people would really take "a bag of pucks for him," I'd be happy shipping off Nik Antropov for him. Won't happen, of course, as Edler is worth more than Vancouver fans realize.

I know Canucks fans are trying to find out what pieces are missing, but I can assure you that the talent on the team is there. What's missing is heart and urgency. Kesler coming back won't fix it.

The only course of action to really get the players playing with a sense of urgency and heart is to make a coaching change. The players need a different message and voice in the dressing room. Gillis won't/can't trade Sedin's, Kesler, or Bieksa. If those voices aren't going to change things, then AV is the odd man out. I like him, but that's the next logical step.
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#112 Monty

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:57 PM

People keep saying Edler has potential or is still young and will be a top D-man in his prime. Well he's 26 now and players tend to hit their peak at 27. That's the age where what you see is what you get. If you're not a top D-man by 27, then chances are you won't be one by 28.


Currently active players Mark Streit, Dan Boyle, and Nik Kronwall say high.As for retired players, I know there are some, but the first that comes to mind is Brian Rafalski.So yeah.
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#113 Peace Bond

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:15 PM

But Elder does not play like a top 4 D man in most night...other GMs are not stupid.


Who's this 'Elder' you speak of?
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#114 Chronic.Canucks.Fan

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:26 PM

Now that the trade deadline's come and passed, I was wondering what everyone's thoughts on the Roy trade was? Who would have thought we could get our fabled "top-6 forward" (albeit a rental) for K-Conn and a 2nd?

To further the discussion, with the cap coming down would you make this sort of trade in the offseason for a combination of younger forwards on their ELC's/RFA deals and draft picks?

Who would you trade?
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