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LuongoMVP

Team Toughness - How do we compare against other teams?

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What is it you guys are expecting to happen? Either another player is going to drop the gloves or he will not. Do you know what happens to this team when they punch a guy that refuses to fight?

Let's look at it from another perspective. The next time we play Phoenix, some Coyotes will look for some retribution on Edler. Guess what? He won't fight. So when that fails in the game, are the Coyotes lacking toughness?

Instead of this mysterious "stick up for eachother" and "lacking toughness" please say EXACTLY what you want players to do and how they will do it without the league handing out suspensions on us like it's Halloween candy.

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If Nolan is cranking Danny's neck with his stick while he is down on the ice, we need some pushback people.

Really we make it too easy for the refs not to call anything. If we don't care, why should they? A little pushback keeps the officials on edge, forces them to police after the whistle, maybe even be proactive.

Too often our guys are on their own, trying to deal with 2 or 3 opponents after the whistle while their linemates are skating towards the bench. It's not right.

Team toughness includes finishing checks, clearing the crease, taking your man, and standing up for one another.

"For he today that sheds his blood with me,

Shall be my brother."

Problem is though, we just can't get away with it. We're down some players and can't afford to lose more and we all know how we fare at the end of the disciplinary stick.

Ideally - yes. Realistically - no, we just aren't allowed to fight back. There's an eye on the Canucks that isn't always watching as closely as it should be. I do like the fact, though, that the team is hinting toward not giving a rat's behind anymore in a fed up way. We're inching there, slowly, but this team's been programmed by the league to watch their backs but don't act on that. It's pathetically sad, as I love the old school hockey where the refs let the players sort it out. I know - injuries and so on. But I think there's more risk to injury when players can't protect themselves...if Hank is seriously injured one day, it'll be the end of me and this hockey farce. The league can then hang their sorry ass heads in shame for not protecting one of their best. Or allowing those around him to do so.

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Problem is though, we just can't get away with it. We're down some players and can't afford to lose more and we all know how we fare at the end of the disciplinary stick.

Ideally - yes. Realistically - no, we just aren't allowed to fight back. There's an eye on the Canucks that isn't always watching as closely as it should be.

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Problem is though, we just can't get away with it. We're down some players and can't afford to lose more and we all know how we fare at the end of the disciplinary stick.

Ideally - yes. Realistically - no, we just aren't allowed to fight back. There's an eye on the Canucks that isn't always watching as closely as it should be. I do like the fact, though, that the team is hinting toward not giving a rat's behind anymore in a fed up way. We're inching there, slowly, but this team's been programmed by the league to watch their backs but don't act on that. It's pathetically sad, as I love the old school hockey where the refs let the players sort it out. I know - injuries and so on. But I think there's more risk to injury when players can't protect themselves...if Hank is seriously injured one day, it'll be the end of me and this hockey farce. The league can then hang their sorry ass heads in shame for not protecting one of their best. Or allowing those around him to do so.

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if only odjick was playing with this team........

It does appear to me that this team for some reason doesn't have eachother's back. Something really seems off and divided instead of united. Are some players unclear as to what their roll is on the team? I still picture that twit Marchand punching Daniel in the face 17 times and laughing at him, makes my blood boil.

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Saw Jordan Nolan taking liberties on our Captain today and I am disappointed by the lack of team toughness we have to address when other teams run our star players. The bigger problem is that it's not an isolated incident.

I know AV preaches to play between the whistles, etc, but that does not address the issue. I'm not suggesting we need someone to fight Jordan Nolan, but our team should hit legally back or increase the physicality on their skilled players. I think our team lacks the team toughness and intimidation, which is much needed to go far in the playoffs.

If an incident like that happened to Boston, Toronto or Ottawa, you know full well that you will need to answer to someone like Thorton, Orr or Neil. What are your thoughts?

On a related note, I've always longed for a legitimate top 6-9 power forward like a Ryan Clowe or Chris Stewart on this team who will keep others in line, and also have some skill to back it up. Perhaps Kassian can grow into one of these players, some day.

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The cross heck on Hank should have been responded period. unfortunately there was nobody on the ice capable at the time. in a game like this, kassian should be playing with the sedins but obviously he is out. any response a few shifts later is too late and most likely would result in a five minute penalty and multi game suspension because a buffoon is in charge of such things.

the boarding on Tanev by penner was a tough one because a penalty was being called on the play. The Canucks are supposedly a pp team and it being a close game a guy like Sestito who knows this also knows that he could end up benched or even waived for jeopardizing the chances in a 1-0 game.....if he had been with the Canucks longer he probably would have jumped in (speculation) instead lappy, the most useless pseudo enforcer on our team and possibly in the league jumped on Penner like a flee, gloves off and accomplishing nothing.....frustrating because lappy could have got a penalty for essentially no response.

This team is in a tough spot this way. The identity is vague. The problem is it all gets worse in the post season with less calls.

I watched the leafs bruins game yesterday. Yikes. Built to bruise. And how do you think those calls will go against either?

Bottom line is, IMHO, we don't get out of a series due to physicality issues against:

La

Anaheim

St. Louis

San Jose

Boston

And I hate to say it I question a series even against the leafs right now....I have to be honest they are playing no worse than us and are way more physical.

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If MG truly wanted to change the identity of this team he would trade Burrows. Respect to him as a player, but he is not cutting it right now. He isn't producing with the Sedins, has no toughness to protect them, and he's not getting any penalties drawn against him because of his rep. Put Kassian with the twins so they don't get bullied.

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When healthy, we're alright.

Sedin Sedin Kassian - Good pushback from Zack and the Sedins aren't these supposedly soft guys anymore.

Booth Kesler Higgins - All can dish out some hurt if needed

Raymond Schroeder Hansen - This is the line that will be targeted. If Raymond is caught in full-flight, that's dangerous. And Schroeder needs to prove that he can be a bit more of a pest, if anything. Esp. against bigger opponents. Can he hit? Hansen is a proven irritant.

Burrows Lappy/Ebbett Weise/Sestito/Pini/etc. I know, i know. How do you have Burr on the 4th? Why, to make the ultimate specialty line, of course. And besides, AV will be shuffling these guys around a lot. When the games start getting tough, this 4th line, prob. with Hansen on the wing, will be used more than the Schroeder line. This line has significant pushback and a huge troll factor. Burr-Lappy-Hansen? Not bad.

It would be nice if we had center depth though. Other teams are shoring up.

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If MG truly wanted to change the identity of this team he would trade Burrows. Respect to him as a player, but he is not cutting it right now. He isn't producing with the Sedins, has no toughness to protect them, and he's not getting any penalties drawn against him because of his rep. Put Kassian with the twins so they don't get bullied.

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Our toughness is fine, completely overblown issue. It's easy to pick one small incident and use it as an example of why we're soft. You can say no other team would let it happen but the reality is these incidents happen in almost every game. Last time I checked we're pretty high up in the fighting category so I think we have enough guys who can drop em.

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Toughness isn't just defending a teammate after he gets hit. Why don't we just start going after guys regardless? I mean I think everyone here would consider LA and Boston two of the most toughest teams in the league, and that's because they make the big hits and go to the dirty areas before it's really warranted.

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Don't we have like the most fighting majors in the entire league?

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We need some good fighters on the team. Someone like Clowe, Lucic, Fraser etc.

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I thought the Canucks matched up pretty well against LA physically last game except for the Sedins and Tanev. Tanev takes more abuse than I'd like but he's still able to play his game. The Sedins on the other hand just got shut down. If the Sedin line could ever find a way to deal successfully with physical play I think the team would be fine.

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I think you would be hard pressed to find a team that gets pushed around more then the Canucks.

There are 30 teams in the NHL and 29 of them would never have put up with Nolan manhandling their Captains.

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Samer old same old. This team is soft. Yes they have been trying to play with "more of an edge" this year. Yes, there were a bunch of completely meaningless fights early on in the season. Fact still remains, when our top players get fed $hit sandwiches, no-one does anything about it. It's garbage. Pathetic. Thanks for retiring #19 MG! Now all the canuck players can look up to the rafters and see what it takes to get to the top of the organization. Pathetic.

Taking the topic one step further, I think the canucks have the weakest fan base in the league. Look at the posts on here! Are we cheering for a figure skating team or a hockey team? Seriously. Canucks fans have to be the weakest, whiniest, wimpiest fans in the league. Sad. Boohoo the refs boohoo the bettman boohoo those canadian boys are ragdolling the Sedins again boofrackinghoo

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It's been going on too long.Team philosophy needs to adjust.

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