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Mrock-763

Raymond... keep or trade?

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Barry Barry Barry.. I don't know why you keep doing this to yourself.

You take a licking, (1)hide under a rock for a while and then pop your head back up only to get run over again.

My opinion was that Raymond is playing some of his best hockey (in MANY years) right now and still on pace for under 25 goals and so, (2)it looks like his career ceiling looks to be 25 goals.

You injected yourself into this conversation calling me Nostradamus (thanks for the compliment) saying there's way too many players to list that has scored under 25 goals before 27-28 years old and gone on to be a 30-35 goal scorers.

However, you fail to mention who these players are...

I hate being an ass on the forum but you really bring out the best of me. ::D

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Raymond is a UFA why would the Sabres want him? Only playoff teams would be interested, I doubt his market value is very high though.

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If your gonna go out and get Steve ott your trying to get the cup and if your trying to get the cup your not trading one of the hottest forwards on your team. Mayray is on fire this year and we need to keep him if we want any shot.. Offer up some youth that doesn't involve Jensen corrado gaunce... Maybe a first if your really gonna go for it. Try and get it back in a Lu trade

First for ott

Luongo for first c grade prospect

Sedin sedin burrows

Raymond kesler Hansen

Booth Ott Kassian

Higgins lappy weise

If booth makes a second round appearance :shock: sweet Jesus we look good

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I think it makes a lot of sense to trade him, and there's several reasons why. The most important being we have too many wingers and are trying to get bigger. Credit where it's due, he's having a good season and for that reason he could fetch a real suitable Center for us and help balance out the lines. Hopefully achieving some much needed on ice chemistry.

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(1) ?

Do you live on these forums? I don't know what your quote above means because I've engaged with every comment of yours I've seen. If I leave out a few, well, I have a job, a life, etc etc. , and frankly, though it's entertaining somewhat to see you post the same thing over and over .... and over .., there comes a point where nothing more can be responded to that kind of "argument".

(2) Words are very important. They have specific meanings. So when you change and shift those words around, it destroys your credibility as a debater. You can then try to get out of your original statements.

In your response which started my first one to you, you stated, in no uncertain terms, that Raymond's ceiling was reached, not, as you're saying now, that "it looks like" his career ceiling is 25 goals. Do you see how there is a rather large discrepancy in those two views? I can have some agreement with your amended position, but that's not what you first stated, which was a definitive prediction that he'd NEVER reach that total.

Oh, btw ....

Daniel Sedin.

What would you have said about him after his 05-06 season?

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It depends whether or not the Canucks think he is a top six forward or not. If you are going to pay Hansen and Raymond both 3 Million, then you have a problem because that's too much for 2 guys who are 3rd liners and unproven top six forwards. If I had to choose one, it would be Hansen easily. Then, there's Higgins. Unfortunately, it isn't necessarily who is the guy with more skill, it's the guy with more chemistry with Kesler. That's why Higgins should be re-signed. Raymond is the odd man out, imo.

The only way, all three(the 3rd liners, that are occasionally on the 2nd line). Is that, Jordan Schoeder solidifies himself as a 3rd line center, and that the team somehow finds a way to get rid of Booth, Ballard, Luongo, and a lot more salary. It's also key, to sign a proper scoring forward.

Real Lucky that Hansen has an one more year in his contract, so there's time but I've said it at the start of the season. Only one of Raymond, Booth, or Higgins will stay. Trying to move Booth will be difficult, Raymond may be able to land more money/better roster spot elsewhere, and Higgins will probably be the cheapest and has the best chemistry with Kesler.

Add the fact that Kassian should be eventually getting better, and Jensen is stepping up. There's no reason to sign so many wingers for around the 3M. Raymond is probably the most expendable.

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This team needs play-off performers. He's been playing differently this year than recent years, so I'd say give him one last chance in the play-offs. If he can't compete there yet again, then ship him off to a team that needs to make the playoffs.

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Always been a fan of Raymond. He possess certain skill set that other players just don't have. Hope they resign him soon. Definitely KEEP!!!!

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all i have to say about this is do not, do not trade raymond, shroeder, or hansen, that line is doing so well and has displayed great chemistry.... go canucks go....

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I see, you are going to keep researching (while trying to act like you couldn't be bothered) and drop one name at a time(whenever you could possibly find one) from that list of too many.

Daniel scored 36 goals at 26 years of age so that wouldn't fit under your own parameter's of age which YOU set at 27-28 years old.

So you still only have managed to find one 30 year old Darcy Rota stat. Keep swinging buddy.

Oh and also, IF you were to even count Sedin, sure, compare Raymond to a #2 overall pick. I'm sure Mayray will end up JUST like him... :rolleyes:

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Wow.

5 months short of the 27 year-old parameter, and you're calling it a "no go".

The spirit of my argument has demolished your puny assurance that a Mason Raymond can't score 30 goals at least once in the rest of his career.

Embarassed about all those other 30 goal scorers, as well, that have hit the mark for the first time after 27 (or 26, 7 months, 14 days)?

And about the bolded, above:

You obviously have no notion of what a larger argument entails. Many posters here and elsewhere were saying that D Sedin would never do much more than 22 goals per year at that time. Perhaps you would even be one of them since those thoughts mirror your own regarding players maxing out at that mysterious 27 year old mark. Daniel, like Rota, and like many other players you're either too lazy to look up or too scared of citing since it'd embarass you, flatlined at the low 20s for several years while Raymond only touched it once (while putting up a slightly higher total than any of them, as well).

Ryan Kesler (26 years, 8 months).

AMAZing what that CanucksJay-separated 4-5 month window can do for players exploding to a new level!

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Haha look at you trying to rationalize. Simple question. How old was Sedin when he scored 36 goals?

26 or 27???

Yeah that's what I thought

Oh what's that? He was 26 but he was 4 months 6 days 7 hours away blah blah blah...

Same with Kesler.

Maybe you should just rephrase what you said then and include 26 year olds in your parameter because what you actually said was there are too many names to list of 27-28 year olds who scored 30-35 goals. But isn't it funny how now you are trying to argue that 26 year olds are SOOO close to being 27 and instead of naming some 35 goal scorers, you are looking at the lowest range in you statement by saying 30 goal scorers?

You would actually get respect if you were to (1)rattle off 20+ players who (2)scored 35 goals for the 1st time in their career when they were (3)28 years + but hey, since those players don't exist, let's just make some adjustments to your parameters.

Why stop there? Why dont we argue for 25 year olds as well as they are only 24 months away from being 27? And then we can argue to include 28 goal scorers because that's kind of like 30 right? :rolleyes:

Pathetic...keep back peddling bud.

Also keep finding one player at a time. Looking through that long list of players at your fingertips must be TOUGH... hahaha

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He's taken alot of abuse over the years by the media and fans, and I wouldn't be surprised if he walked after this season. He's played himself into a big pay raise that we might not be able to afford, and we still have to re-sign certain players.

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He will ask for $3.5M X 4 years.

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Haha look at you trying to rationalize. Simple question. How old was Sedin when he scored 36 goals?

26 or 27???

Yeah that's what I thought

Oh what's that? He was 26 but he was 4 months 6 days 7 hours away blah blah blah...

Same with Kesler.

Maybe you should just rephrase what you said then and include 26 year olds in your parameter because what you actually said was there are too many names to list of 27-28 year olds who scored 30-35 goals. But isn't it funny how now you are trying to argue that 26 year olds are SOOO close to being 27 and instead of naming some 35 goal scorers, you are looking at the lowest range in you statement by saying 30 goal scorers?

You would actually get respect if you were to rattle off 20+ players who scored 35 goals for the 1st time in their career when they were 28 years + but hey, since those players don't exist, let's just make some adjustments to your parameters.

Why stop there? Why dont we argue for 25 year olds as well as they are only 24 months away from being 27? And then we can argue to include 28 goal scorers because that's kind of like 30 right? :rolleyes:

Pathetic...keep back peddling bud.

Also keep finding one player at a time. Looking through that long list of players at your fingertips must be TOUGH... hahaha

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