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Raymond... keep or trade?


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#181 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:57 PM

Barry Barry Barry.. I don't know why you keep doing this to yourself.
You take a licking, (1)hide under a rock for a while and then pop your head back up only to get run over again.

My opinion was that Raymond is playing some of his best hockey (in MANY years) right now and still on pace for under 25 goals and so, (2)it looks like his career ceiling looks to be 25 goals.

You injected yourself into this conversation calling me Nostradamus (thanks for the compliment) saying there's way too many players to list that has scored under 25 goals before 27-28 years old and gone on to be a 30-35 goal scorers.

However, you fail to mention who these players are...

I hate being an ass on the forum but you really bring out the best of me. ::D


(1) ?

Do you live on these forums? I don't know what your quote above means because I've engaged with every comment of yours I've seen. If I leave out a few, well, I have a job, a life, etc etc. , and frankly, though it's entertaining somewhat to see you post the same thing over and over .... and over .., there comes a point where nothing more can be responded to that kind of "argument".

(2) Words are very important. They have specific meanings. So when you change and shift those words around, it destroys your credibility as a debater. You can then try to get out of your original statements.

In your response which started my first one to you, you stated, in no uncertain terms, that Raymond's ceiling was reached, not, as you're saying now, that "it looks like" his career ceiling is 25 goals. Do you see how there is a rather large discrepancy in those two views? I can have some agreement with your amended position, but that's not what you first stated, which was a definitive prediction that he'd NEVER reach that total.

Oh, btw ....

Daniel Sedin.

What would you have said about him after his 05-06 season?
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#182 CrazyAL

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:04 PM

Raymond is a UFA why would the Sabres want him? Only playoff teams would be interested, I doubt his market value is very high though.
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#183 thad

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:41 PM

If your gonna go out and get Steve ott your trying to get the cup and if your trying to get the cup your not trading one of the hottest forwards on your team. Mayray is on fire this year and we need to keep him if we want any shot.. Offer up some youth that doesn't involve Jensen corrado gaunce... Maybe a first if your really gonna go for it. Try and get it back in a Lu trade

First for ott
Luongo for first c grade prospect

Sedin sedin burrows
Raymond kesler Hansen
Booth Ott Kassian
Higgins lappy weise

If booth makes a second round appearance :shock: sweet Jesus we look good
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#184 Nuck-Shot

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:47 PM

Keep
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#185 Baggins

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:22 AM

I think it makes a lot of sense to trade him, and there's several reasons why. The most important being we have too many wingers and are trying to get bigger. Credit where it's due, he's having a good season and for that reason he could fetch a real suitable Center for us and help balance out the lines. Hopefully achieving some much needed on ice chemistry.


It makes absolutely no sense to trade him unless you're talking about your EA game.

You are not going to get a quality roster player for a pending ufa.

In any trade right now Raymond is a rental player. Only playoff teams will be interested and what they offer for rental players are prospects and/or picks. They are looking to add not subtract. Which means we would be subtracting from our own playoff chances.

Why is this so difficult to understand?
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#186 Gman

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:06 AM

Keep.
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#187 CanucksJay

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:38 AM

(1) ?

Do you live on these forums? I don't know what your quote above means because I've engaged with every comment of yours I've seen. If I leave out a few, well, I have a job, a life, etc etc. , and frankly, though it's entertaining somewhat to see you post the same thing over and over .... and over .., there comes a point where nothing more can be responded to that kind of "argument".

(2) Words are very important. They have specific meanings. So when you change and shift those words around, it destroys your credibility as a debater. You can then try to get out of your original statements.

In your response which started my first one to you, you stated, in no uncertain terms, that Raymond's ceiling was reached, not, as you're saying now, that "it looks like" his career ceiling is 25 goals. Do you see how there is a rather large discrepancy in those two views? I can have some agreement with your amended position, but that's not what you first stated, which was a definitive prediction that he'd NEVER reach that total.

Oh, btw ....

Daniel Sedin.

What would you have said about him after his 05-06 season?


I see, you are going to keep researching (while trying to act like you couldn't be bothered) and drop one name at a time(whenever you could possibly find one) from that list of too many.
Daniel scored 36 goals at 26 years of age so that wouldn't fit under your own parameter's of age which YOU set at 27-28 years old.

So you still only have managed to find one 30 year old Darcy Rota stat. Keep swinging buddy.

Oh and also, IF you were to even count Sedin, sure, compare Raymond to a #2 overall pick. I'm sure Mayray will end up JUST like him... :rolleyes:
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#188 RobberLuongo

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:48 PM

Higgins Schroeder Hansen - sniper playmaker grinder


Did you just call Higgins a sniper? :picard:
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#189 Mrock-763

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:07 PM

Did you just call Higgins a sniper? :picard:


He was considered a sniper when playing for Montreal but I guess your right (twf now?)

He's still able to snipe them in though, at least 15-20 goals

Edited by Mrock-763, 27 March 2013 - 01:08 PM.

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#190 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:51 PM

It depends whether or not the Canucks think he is a top six forward or not. If you are going to pay Hansen and Raymond both 3 Million, then you have a problem because that's too much for 2 guys who are 3rd liners and unproven top six forwards. If I had to choose one, it would be Hansen easily. Then, there's Higgins. Unfortunately, it isn't necessarily who is the guy with more skill, it's the guy with more chemistry with Kesler. That's why Higgins should be re-signed. Raymond is the odd man out, imo.

The only way, all three(the 3rd liners, that are occasionally on the 2nd line). Is that, Jordan Schoeder solidifies himself as a 3rd line center, and that the team somehow finds a way to get rid of Booth, Ballard, Luongo, and a lot more salary. It's also key, to sign a proper scoring forward.

Real Lucky that Hansen has an one more year in his contract, so there's time but I've said it at the start of the season. Only one of Raymond, Booth, or Higgins will stay. Trying to move Booth will be difficult, Raymond may be able to land more money/better roster spot elsewhere, and Higgins will probably be the cheapest and has the best chemistry with Kesler.

Add the fact that Kassian should be eventually getting better, and Jensen is stepping up. There's no reason to sign so many wingers for around the 3M. Raymond is probably the most expendable.


You have a very short memory. Raymond's best year was spent mostly with Kesler - and Raymond was healthy. Raymond did not play well when he was either injured or recovering from injury. So long as he has been healthy he has been good. How anyone can consider Booth a legitimate second liner is beyond me. We got him because he was doing nothing where he was after signing an enormous contract. He has done next to nothing useful since he has been here - certainly nothing beyond a dozen games where he looked like a second liner. Kassian getting better is certainly not a fact. A fact is something that is true, and the truth of your assertion cannot be established. So far, pretty much all he has done is look like the bad end of a very bad trade.

I would like to think that Jensen can step up, but we have no evidence that he can do so at an NHL level, so we can't say he is 'stepping up' either. Basically, all you did was spout a bunch of unsupported assertions.
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#191 thehamburglar

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

Keep him, who else has been scoring?
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#192 Bananas

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:07 PM

This team needs play-off performers. He's been playing differently this year than recent years, so I'd say give him one last chance in the play-offs. If he can't compete there yet again, then ship him off to a team that needs to make the playoffs.
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#193 John316

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:07 PM

Always been a fan of Raymond. He possess certain skill set that other players just don't have. Hope they resign him soon. Definitely KEEP!!!!
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#194 Canuck hero

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:18 PM

all i have to say about this is do not, do not trade raymond, shroeder, or hansen, that line is doing so well and has displayed great chemistry.... go canucks go....
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#195 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:30 PM

I see, you are going to keep researching (while trying to act like you couldn't be bothered) and drop one name at a time(whenever you could possibly find one) from that list of too many.
Daniel scored 36 goals at 26 years of age so that wouldn't fit under your own parameter's of age which YOU set at 27-28 years old.

So you still only have managed to find one 30 year old Darcy Rota stat. Keep swinging buddy.

Oh and also, IF you were to even count Sedin, sure, compare Raymond to a #2 overall pick. I'm sure Mayray will end up JUST like him... :rolleyes:


Wow.

5 months short of the 27 year-old parameter, and you're calling it a "no go".

The spirit of my argument has demolished your puny assurance that a Mason Raymond can't score 30 goals at least once in the rest of his career.

Embarassed about all those other 30 goal scorers, as well, that have hit the mark for the first time after 27 (or 26, 7 months, 14 days)?

And about the bolded, above:

You obviously have no notion of what a larger argument entails. Many posters here and elsewhere were saying that D Sedin would never do much more than 22 goals per year at that time. Perhaps you would even be one of them since those thoughts mirror your own regarding players maxing out at that mysterious 27 year old mark. Daniel, like Rota, and like many other players you're either too lazy to look up or too scared of citing since it'd embarass you, flatlined at the low 20s for several years while Raymond only touched it once (while putting up a slightly higher total than any of them, as well).

Ryan Kesler (26 years, 8 months).

AMAZing what that CanucksJay-separated 4-5 month window can do for players exploding to a new level!
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#196 CanucksJay

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:48 AM

Wow.

5 months short of the 27 year-old parameter, and you're calling it a "no go".

The spirit of my argument has demolished your puny assurance that a Mason Raymond can't score 30 goals at least once in the rest of his career.

Embarassed about all those other 30 goal scorers, as well, that have hit the mark for the first time after 27 (or 26, 7 months, 14 days)?

And about the bolded, above:

You obviously have no notion of what a larger argument entails. Many posters here and elsewhere were saying that D Sedin would never do much more than 22 goals per year at that time. Perhaps you would even be one of them since those thoughts mirror your own regarding players maxing out at that mysterious 27 year old mark. Daniel, like Rota, and like many other players you're either too lazy to look up or too scared of citing since it'd embarass you, flatlined at the low 20s for several years while Raymond only touched it once (while putting up a slightly higher total than any of them, as well).

Ryan Kesler (26 years, 8 months).

AMAZing what that CanucksJay-separated 4-5 month window can do for players exploding to a new level!


Haha look at you trying to rationalize. Simple question. How old was Sedin when he scored 36 goals?
26 or 27???
Yeah that's what I thought
Oh what's that? He was 26 but he was 4 months 6 days 7 hours away blah blah blah...

Same with Kesler.

Maybe you should just rephrase what you said then and include 26 year olds in your parameter because what you actually said was there are too many names to list of 27-28 year olds who scored 30-35 goals. But isn't it funny how now you are trying to argue that 26 year olds are SOOO close to being 27 and instead of naming some 35 goal scorers, you are looking at the lowest range in you statement by saying 30 goal scorers?

You would actually get respect if you were to rattle off 20+ players who scored 35 goals for the 1st time in their career when they were 28 years + but hey, since those players don't exist, let's just make some adjustments to your parameters.

Why stop there? Why dont we argue for 25 year olds as well as they are only 24 months away from being 27? And then we can argue to include 28 goal scorers because that's kind of like 30 right? :rolleyes:

Pathetic...keep back peddling bud.

Also keep finding one player at a time. Looking through that long list of players at your fingertips must be TOUGH... hahaha
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#197 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:29 AM

Haha look at you trying to rationalize. Simple question. How old was Sedin when he scored 36 goals?
26 or 27???
Yeah that's what I thought
Oh what's that? He was 26 but he was 4 months 6 days 7 hours away blah blah blah...

Same with Kesler.

Maybe you should just rephrase what you said then and include 26 year olds in your parameter because what you actually said was there are too many names to list of 27-28 year olds who scored 30-35 goals. But isn't it funny how now you are trying to argue that 26 year olds are SOOO close to being 27 and instead of naming some 35 goal scorers, you are looking at the lowest range in you statement by saying 30 goal scorers?

You would actually get respect if you were to (1)rattle off 20+ players who (2)scored 35 goals for the 1st time in their career when they were (3)28 years + but hey, since those players don't exist, let's just make some adjustments to your parameters.

Why stop there? Why dont we argue for 25 year olds as well as they are only 24 months away from being 27? And then we can argue to include 28 goal scorers because that's kind of like 30 right? :rolleyes:

Pathetic...keep back peddling bud.

Also keep finding one player at a time. Looking through that long list of players at your fingertips must be TOUGH... hahaha


You DO live on these boards. :) ... "bud"

Remember what I said about how dishonest you were (and are) about changing parameters?

3) I originally mentioned 27-28 year-olds, not "28 years".

2) I originally stated one time at 30 or 35 goals, not 35 minimum.

3) You originally stated 10 players, not 20 +

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#198 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:55 AM

He's taken alot of abuse over the years by the media and fans, and I wouldn't be surprised if he walked after this season. He's played himself into a big pay raise that we might not be able to afford, and we still have to re-sign certain players.


Actually, after we dump Luongo, Booth, and Ballard's salaries, we will have lots of room to pay Raymond what he has earned. Wouldn't mind moving Edler for a right shooting offensive D before Edler becomes worthless, too. Raymond IS the player that has to be re-signed.
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#199 Bodee

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:35 AM

He will ask for $3.5M X 4 years.


I don't think he will. I think he likes it in Vancouver/BC.
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#200 Baggins

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:40 AM

Haha look at you trying to rationalize. Simple question. How old was Sedin when he scored 36 goals?
26 or 27???
Yeah that's what I thought
Oh what's that? He was 26 but he was 4 months 6 days 7 hours away blah blah blah...

Same with Kesler.

Maybe you should just rephrase what you said then and include 26 year olds in your parameter because what you actually said was there are too many names to list of 27-28 year olds who scored 30-35 goals. But isn't it funny how now you are trying to argue that 26 year olds are SOOO close to being 27 and instead of naming some 35 goal scorers, you are looking at the lowest range in you statement by saying 30 goal scorers?

You would actually get respect if you were to rattle off 20+ players who scored 35 goals for the 1st time in their career when they were 28 years + but hey, since those players don't exist, let's just make some adjustments to your parameters.

Why stop there? Why dont we argue for 25 year olds as well as they are only 24 months away from being 27? And then we can argue to include 28 goal scorers because that's kind of like 30 right? :rolleyes:

Pathetic...keep back peddling bud.

Also keep finding one player at a time. Looking through that long list of players at your fingertips must be TOUGH... hahaha


Mikael Samuelsson
Mike Knuble
Johan Franzen
Joe Pavelski
Adam Oates
Daniel Alfredsson
Jason Blake
Robert Lang

enough???

:emot-parrot:
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#201 CanucksJay

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:57 AM

Mikael Samuelsson
Mike Knuble
Johan Franzen
Joe Pavelski
Adam Oates
Daniel Alfredsson
Jason Blake
Robert Lang

enough???

:emot-parrot:


nope not enough because you are hoping Raymond becomes #9 out of HUNDREDS of NHL players so the odds are actually heavily stacked against him

Seriously do the math, whats 9 divided by EVERY NHL player who hasn't scored 30-35 goals before the age of 27 or 28?

My guess is less than 5%.
So if you want to hold onto Raymond thinking he fits in that magical category, you should also buy a lottery ticket because that sounds like a guaranteed win to me...

I don't think what I'm saying is that far fetched. Obviously there's guys like you and Barry who think that Raymond can score 35 goals. I'm saying that history and stats say otherwise (the chances are SUPER slim) so why not trade him to a GM that thinks like the 2 of you who think his potential is a 35 goal scorer and get something decent in return for him?

I'm just playing the percentages and the probabilities.
It's highly improbable that Raymond will becomes a 35 goal scorer so if we could trade him along with some assets to get a 35 goal scorer, then why not pull the trigger?

The only reason why I would keep him is if I think its highly probable that he will become a 35 goal scorer

Edited by CanucksJay, 28 March 2013 - 09:05 AM.

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#202 riffraff

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:54 AM

I'd trade.....he's having a great year and his stock will be decent to good.

Hes going to want four years at 3-3.75....

Too high for unproven playoff performance.


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CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#203 Bodee

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:46 AM

This team needs play-off performers. He's been playing differently this year than recent years, so I'd say give him one last chance in the play-offs. If he can't compete there yet again, then ship him off to a team that needs to make the playoffs.


Well on the past two playoffs Raymond will be at the back of a damn long queue. Raymond is one of the few on our team, when fit who doesn't dip in the playoffs.


I think we should part with Raymond, Ballard, Edler, Bieksa, Tanev and Kesler..............It's HIGH TIME CDC GOT THE KICK IN THE NUTS THEY DESERVE.

I will burst myself laughing when we see what we get back and we struggle every year in the playoffs while these players go on to greater things.

Edited by Bodee, 28 March 2013 - 10:51 AM.

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#204 spook007

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:10 AM

Well on the past two playoffs Raymond will be at the back of a damn long queue. Raymond is one of the few on our team, when fit who doesn't dip in the playoffs.


I think we should part with Raymond, Ballard, Edler, Bieksa, Tanev and Kesler..............It's HIGH TIME CDC GOT THE KICK IN THE NUTS THEY DESERVE.

I will burst myself laughing when we see what we get back and we struggle every year in the playoffs while these players go on to greater things.
If we ever get to the play offs...


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#205 CanucksJay

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:24 AM

You DO live on these boards. :) ... "bud"

Remember what I said about how dishonest you were (and are) about changing parameters?

3) I originally mentioned 27-28 year-olds, not "28 years".

2) I originally stated one time at 30 or 35 goals, not 35 minimum.

3) You originally stated 10 players, not 20 +

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I don't think you got my point...
I'm saying your original parameters were 27-28 years old and 30-35 goal scorers but in order to try making your argument work, you are concentrating on the lowest numbers out of your range (27 years old 30 goals) which shows you don't really have a valid argument.

Moreover, the fact that even while you are trying to pick the lower numbers in your range, you are still having a tough time finding names is further evidence that you were out to lunch on your comments.

COOKIES!!!

I think you and I have different standards.
When I give someone a range 30-35 and 27-28, I am looking at the mean of the numbers (32.5 and 27.5 with a standard deviation allowing for a range like 30-35 or 27-28).

So then, if I was so adamant about my point, I wouldn't pick all 27 year olds and 30 goal scorers like you did. There would be a good mixture of 27 and 28 year olds AND 30 and 35 goal scorers.

However, by the fact that you can't even really find 27 year olds and arguing that 26.6 years should count as 27 etc just further illustrates my point that you have no facts to back up your statements.

And yes, I come to this board often because it's entertaining. Is there something wrong with that or do you like being the fun police and like setting limits on forum time for people? ::D

The comment about living on the forum also further goes to show that you are in a losing battle in which you are hiding from the argument at hand and looking at personal attacks to try to regain the superiority that you clearly lack.

Edited by CanucksJay, 28 March 2013 - 11:27 AM.

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#206 Baggins

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 02:58 AM

nope not enough because you are hoping Raymond becomes #9 out of HUNDREDS of NHL players so the odds are actually heavily stacked against him

Seriously do the math, whats 9 divided by EVERY NHL player who hasn't scored 30-35 goals before the age of 27 or 28?

My guess is less than 5%.
So if you want to hold onto Raymond thinking he fits in that magical category, you should also buy a lottery ticket because that sounds like a guaranteed win to me...

I don't think what I'm saying is that far fetched. Obviously there's guys like you and Barry who think that Raymond can score 35 goals. I'm saying that history and stats say otherwise (the chances are SUPER slim) so why not trade him to a GM that thinks like the 2 of you who think his potential is a 35 goal scorer and get something decent in return for him?

I'm just playing the percentages and the probabilities.
It's highly improbable that Raymond will becomes a 35 goal scorer so if we could trade him along with some assets to get a 35 goal scorer, then why not pull the trigger?

The only reason why I would keep him is if I think its highly probable that he will become a 35 goal scorer


It's stacked against anybody. That does not mean it's impossible. Which is quite evident. You are clutching at straws to back peddle now.

Also, you are not going to get a 35 goal scorer for any pending ufa. EA is not real life. Teams looking for rental players are not looking to move their 35 goal scorer. What you get for rental players are prospects/picks, as I've mentioned several times in this thread. Which is of no help to us now. I'd say Raymond has a far greater chance of hitting 35 goals at his age than MG has of trading a pending ufa for a 35 goal scorer at the trade deadline.


I think you and I have different standards.
When I give someone a range 30-35 and 27-28, I am looking at the mean of the numbers (32.5 and 27.5 with a standard deviation allowing for a range like 30-35 or 27-28).


When you give a range, 30-35 and 27-28, anything that falls within that range is valid. Otherwise you should simply say over 32.5 and older than 27.5 in the first place as that's what you are opting for now that you know it hasn't been difficult to find players within your original range. The players mentioned are all valid to the parameters.

Edited by Baggins, 29 March 2013 - 04:27 AM.

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#207 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:41 AM

I don't think you got my point...
(1)I'm saying your original parameters were 27-28 years old and 30-35 goal scorers but in order to try making your argument work, you are concentrating on the lowest numbers out of your range (27 years old 30 goals) which shows you don't really have a valid argument.

(2)Moreover, the fact that even while you are trying to pick the lower numbers in your range, you are still having a tough time finding names is further evidence that you were out to lunch on your comments.

COOKIES!!!

(3)I think you and I have different standards.
(4)When I give someone a range 30-35 and 27-28, I am looking at the mean of the numbers (32.5 and 27.5 with a standard deviation allowing for a range like 30-35 or 27-28).

So then, if I was so adamant about my point, I wouldn't pick all 27 year olds and 30 goal scorers like you did. There would be a good mixture of 27 and 28 year olds AND 30 and 35 goal scorers.


(5)However, by the fact that you can't even really find 27 year olds and arguing that 26.6 years should count as 27 etc just further illustrates my point that you have no facts to back up your statements.

And yes, I come to this board often because it's entertaining. Is there something wrong with that or do you like being the fun police and like setting limits on forum time for people? ::D

(6)The comment about living on the forum also further goes to show that you are in a losing battle in which you are hiding from the argument at hand and looking at personal attacks to try to regain the superiority that you clearly lack.



(1) I stated originally that Raymond could hit at least 30 goals at least once in his career. By definition this means that 30 goals is the standard, the base, the goal of the exercise, the defining mark, from which anything OVER 30 goals is gravy.. This is grade two math and kindergarten common sense. You are flailing. (Have you actually had a peek at all those 30 goal scorers from 27 and up yet? Oops.)

(2) I'm not having a tough time finding anyone at all. I have a whole Rolodex of players who fit the criteria that you and I have outlined from quite a few posts ago. I wonder why you don't dig up the stats to DISprove me if you're so confident?

(3) Yes. I mean what I say, and stick by it. You, on the other hand, keep shifting the criteria either because (a) you're afraid the original parameters which we both established is starting to look not only shaky for you, but ready to be engulfed by "late bloomers" breaching the walls, or (B) because you're just a dishonest person who'd rather "win" by subterfuge and cheating than by learning something about players and their potential throughout different stages of their careers.

(4) You didn't "give me a range", liar. Go back and re-read, or have someone do it for you, and read it back to you slowly. I said that I wouldn't be surprised if Raymond hit 30 goals, even 35 once, or a few times, in his career. You said that he had topped out at 25. So, by your recent twisted logic in the quote (4) I'm responding to, I could just as easily say that anything past 25 goals would destroy your argument since you originally said that 25 goals was "his ceiling". (Your words.) But I'm being generous and lifted that to 30. Count yourself lucky. Or maybe not, considering those surprising folk who didn't know that they were done improving at 26 and change, and went on to have even better goal totals.

(5) Again, who says I can't find any 27 year-olds or higher? Unlike you, I don't spasm out my arguments 20 minutes after every post. I've got all day, all week, all month. This is becoming very entertaining. Baggins has stolen a few names (damn you, baggins! haha), but there're quite a few more just from perusing stats from the past few years.

(6) The only reason I brought up the "you live on the forums" angle was in response to your bizarre (and ironic, as it turns out) personal attack on myself that I was "hiding under a rock", avoiding you, that is. I simply responded that I have a life outside of CDC, and that if you want to continue this game you'll have to be patient, even though that differs drastically from your personality. Deal with it.


"Lecavalier over the line, turns, spots Stamkos, Stamkos drops for St. Louis, Marty St. Louis shoots, he SCORES! Career year for the old codger, what a goal! The crowd goes wild!"
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#208 wizeman

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:50 PM

Why is everyone shouting?

Raymond is a core player and we should re sign him. He has proven this year he can produce without Kesler and hes no longer afraid to cut to the middle. We dont find players like this every day.

Lets re sign him. 3.25mil for 4 years.
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