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Do we owe AV an apology?


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#151 Gustavo Fring

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:54 PM

I'll apologize to AV once we win a cup.
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#152 nuck nit

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

Nobody owes AV,he is a pro and is paid handsomely to do a job that only the select few in the world get the pleasure and honor to perform.
All of these professionals were gifted at birth or excelled at a game we all love.
When AV has a team that consistently loses he will likely be the fall guy for a GM that is one phone call from losing his own status.
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#153 Baggins

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:36 AM

AV owes Ballard an apology for sure.


AV: "Hey Ballard, I'm sorry you've played crappy most of your time here."


Feel better?
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#154 gradin123

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:32 AM

Coach of the year in my books right now.
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#155 wai_lai416

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:43 AM

nah not really.. i mean they Canucks are riding good goaltending... if they had avg or even above avg goaltending in any of those game.. coulda easily lost every single one... i hope fans realized.. even with this mini streak.. and kesler coming back and everything... we are no where close to being a contender to win the cup.. there's still a lot of holes that needs to be filled...
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#156 MikeGillis58

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:44 AM

We don't owe AV an apology. His job is to make this team into a cup contender.
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#157 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:53 AM

Ask me after the Playoffs.
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#158 debluvscanucks

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:05 AM

nah not really.. i mean they Canucks are riding good goaltending... if they had avg or even above avg goaltending in any of those game.. coulda easily lost every single one... i hope fans realized.. even with this mini streak.. and kesler coming back and everything... we are no where close to being a contender to win the cup.. there's still a lot of holes that needs to be filled...


Do you know what though? That's what makes a team - that, when some are missing or struggling others will pick up the slack.

"Coulda easily" lost, but won.

When you're patching together a team and are winning despite that, it shows that you are a fairly strong team.

"No where close to being a contender"?? Don't just pick up phrases that others have thrown out there...any team is a contender until they're knocked out of the playoffs. Including us.
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#159 Coconuts

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:11 AM

We don't owe him a thing. He's paid handsomely to get this team to perform at it's best, and in my eyes he hasn't done that consistently during his tenure. He's done good things, he's done bad things. He's made good decisions, and he's made some pretty stupid ones. We made it to the finals with him as a coach, but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth as I feel the guys we had got there in spite of him.

If we don't get past the second round I'd like to see some fresh blood in the coaching staff, and a new head coach. AV's chapter in Canucks history has been a good one, but it could have been much better.

Edited by Azial, 27 March 2013 - 07:11 AM.

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#160 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:17 AM

When he actually outcoaches someone in the playoffs, yes.

I keep hearing this "outcoached" stuff, so I thought I'd address one particular series that seems to come up more often than any others: The 2011 series against Chicago.

AV's detractors point out that the team "almost blew" a 3-0 lead and the "got lucky" with a big save by Louie and then a mistake by Campoli, leading to the Burrows OT winner....

Using the "logic" that blowing a 3 game lead equates to being "outcoached", it also stands to reason that going down 3-0 equates to being "outcoached" in the first three games, does it not? So what you have left is game seven.

Lets forget the fact that the Canucks won that game for a second. How many of us remember how that game went, other than the goal in OT? The fact is, Vancouver was clearly the better team in that game and it was huge saves by Crawford (particularly one on Kesler late in regulation) that gave Chicago any chance at all to win.

In my books, that looks like a coaching "win" for AV...

It doesnt make any sense to give him credit for making intelligent decisions when it takes him months to make them. That in itself isnt very intelligent at all.

Thats pretty much the main reason I think he should be replaced. It hurts the team.

Part of making intelligent decisions is timing. It's already been pointed out several times that Schroeder's play on the 2nd line after a good start, was cooling off. Combine that with the return of Booth and it made sense to move him to the 4th line for a while.

Meanwhile, in Chicago, Ebbett was playing extremely well. The Canucks decided that it made sense to bring Ebbett up and let Schroeder play bigger minutes on the farm, in order to regain his confidence.

Ebbet immediately paid dividends, picking up 3 points in his first game with Raymond and Hansen, while being an upgrade in the faceoff circle and on the PK.

When Schroeder returned, his game was much improved and he is now back on the 2nd line and playing very well. (I'd like to point out BTW, that probably his best assist to date was not to Raymond or Hansen, it was to Dale Weise)

IMHO, the entire situation was handled extremely well by the Canucks' coaching and scouting staff.

nah not really.. i mean they Canucks are riding good goaltending... if they had avg or even above avg goaltending in any of those game.. coulda easily lost every single one... i hope fans realized.. even with this mini streak.. and kesler coming back and everything... we are no where close to being a contender to win the cup.. there's still a lot of holes that needs to be filled...

And if they'd had above average goaltending before this winning streak, they could have won many of the game they lost. That's the way it works.

When you have 10 million dollars invested in the goaltending position, you expect it to be a difference maker, exactly as Pittsburgh expects their investment in Sidney Crosby to make a difference in their win/loss record.
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#161 Nino

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:23 AM

The recent run of wins is because of two things.

1. Great goaltending, something AV is benefiting from and is giving the team confidence. The first few games Cory robed for us but with wins it gives the team confidence and they start playing better as a team. AV credit, don't think so.

2. Reuniteing the speed line, this is something that everyone and there dog was yelling for the day after he broke it up, it was a bone headed move and it took weeks if not longer for AV to admit he was wrong and put a line back together that everyone knows except AV is a good line. Good coaching... Don't think so.


Fire AV....
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#162 snolan

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:41 AM

We haven't really taken the NW back Min has 2 games in hand and if they win 1 they would be in 3rd.

Our streak is much needed, and is rather remarkable given the injuries but amazing goaltending and a bit of a soft schedule are more to thank then the coach.

Kudos where it is due though, AV has adapted the strategy a bit which I didn't think he would do until it was too late so he is doing his job.
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#163 aqua59

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:43 AM

No chance. As stated before this team will not win a CUP with this joker in place as coach. He just started using Garrison on the point again. Why did that take so long? Their are so many things about this guy that need to go. He's stale.
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#164 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:47 AM

The recent run of wins is because of two things.

1. Great goaltending, something AV is benefiting from and is giving the team confidence. The first few games Cory robed for us but with wins it gives the team confidence and they start playing better as a team. AV credit, don't think so.

2. Reuniteing the speed line, this is something that everyone and there dog was yelling for the day after he broke it up, it was a bone headed move and it took weeks if not longer for AV to admit he was wrong and put a line back together that everyone knows except AV is a good line. Good coaching... Don't think so.


Fire AV....


Everyone and their dog was wrong. Schroeder was playing poorly and got moved down and then moved out. Then he came back and was very shortly put back up to the second line and has played better and more consistently since he returned.

Congrats AV.

If you think Schroeder was playing great before; even when on the second line you're insane.
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#165 cc_devil

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:47 AM

The Av lover come out in droves riding the back of CS as usual.
If it weren't for goal tending Av would of been fired years ago......
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#166 Nino

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:54 AM

Everyone and their dog was wrong. Schroeder was playing poorly and got moved down and then moved out. Then he came back and was very shortly put back up to the second line and has played better and more consistently since he returned.

Congrats AV.

If you think Schroeder was playing great before; even when on the second line you're insane.


Your memory has failed you, he broke up the line when kess came back and Schroeder was playing well (not all can be judged on points) he started mixing his line with combos that had people scratching there heads. He never went back to the line that was working moved Schroeder down to the 4th and then to Chicago.

Good coaching? He is too head strong, refuses to do the things that are obvious (and work), tries to play plugs in offensive rolls, cans adapt his coaching style for the playoffs, can't prep for the playoffs, refuses to do the simple things that get the team points, like practice shoot outs..... The list goes on.

Edited by Nino, 27 March 2013 - 08:00 AM.

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#167 Ride the red Pony

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:55 AM

While I can appreciate some of the more intelligent conversation within this thread from people on both sides of the arguement I need to point out the following. Those of us who happen to have lost faith in AV and think it is time for him to go have been subjected to the following personal attacks and slagging, we:

  • are whining
  • are freakazoids
  • are schizo
  • are reactionary
  • guilty of mindless criticism
  • don't have awareness
  • don't have decent sense
  • just lash out at the first person that comes to mind
  • just want to bash somebody
  • aren't real fans at all
  • have zero patience
  • have the memory of a goldfish
  • are fickle
  • are often quite stupid
  • are ignorant fools
  • have cost the team
  • are holding the team back
  • are rooting against the team
  • we need to recognize our wrongs
  • should repent
  • are nitpicking
  • are "so called fans"
  • are ungrateful
  • are fools
  • are dumb
  • have little to no grasp of reality let alone hockey
  • are insanely idiotic
  • are all guilty of rambling incoherent responses
  • don't have close to anything considered a rational thought
  • need to stfu

Really? We're the ones that need to check ourselves? The hypocrisy has never been so thick.

Progress is made by those willing to push forward and challenge the status quo not by those whom simply choose to accept things as they are.


Very well said, this can be said with anything in life, if you have a good business but you know there is room for growth but are happy with the profits you are bringing in, then that is fine.(see Nashville)
But if you step up and challenge the status quo in hopes that you can have a great business and receive the biggest ROI possible, well in my mind, that is what should be striven for.
Canada is the the best market in the world for hockey, this isn't Nashville or Buffalo, where we should sign a coach for 20 years because they "almost" got us the result, so as long as we may have a shot at the playoffs "life is good".
I guess my personality is a little more results driven than some others that are happy with the "status quo", and I don't fault people for that, I understand people "fall in love" with certain players, coaching staff etc. and are willing to overlook some of their misgivings, unfortunately I believe this may be what has happened with AV in regards to some of the players, and his coaching staff.
Clear mind, Clear vision, will end with good results
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#168 Pistachios

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:57 AM

The recent run of wins is because of two things.

1. Great goaltending, something AV is benefiting from and is giving the team confidence. The first few games Cory robed for us but with wins it gives the team confidence and they start playing better as a team. AV credit, don't think so.


Yes that's because AV has given Schneider the ball to run with. Before his hot streak, both goaltenders struuggled and AV did the right thing in bouncing back between the two to see if one started to find their rhythm. What about the back to back to starts for Schneider? Wasn't that a smart move by AV? Didn't he as coach recognize Schneider was coming on? That's a smart move and what you want from a good coach.
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#169 WZRD

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:59 AM

Everyone and their dog was wrong. Schroeder was playing poorly and got moved down and then moved out. Then he came back and was very shortly put back up to the second line and has played better and more consistently since he returned.

Congrats AV.

If you think Schroeder was playing great before; even when on the second line you're insane.

Schroeder wasn't playing poorly before the idiot coach moved him to the 4th line. Looks like you ate up the cr*p that av fed the media.


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#170 Nino

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:03 AM

Yes that's because AV has given Schneider the ball to run with. Before his hot streak, both goaltenders struuggled and AV did the right thing in bouncing back between the two to see if one started to find their rhythm. What about the back to back to starts for Schneider? Wasn't that a smart move by AV? Didn't he as coach recognize Schneider was coming on? That's a smart move and what you want from a good coach.


My five year old called that one but I don't think he's ready to coach the Canucks.

Edit, and I think that higgy with the twins is a joke, higgy is clearly a good player but is not a good fit for the twins. The twins had one good shift and it was when burrows was on with them because of a bad line change.

Edited by Nino, 27 March 2013 - 08:08 AM.

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#171 debluvscanucks

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:09 AM

No chance. As stated before this team will not win a CUP with this joker in place as coach. He just started using Garrison on the point again. Why did that take so long? Their are so many things about this guy that need to go. He's stale.


Do you maybe think it's because if the puck gets past him and it's a foot race the other way, he's going to lose?

I guess my personality is a little more results driven than some others that are happy with the "status quo", and I don't fault people for that, I understand people "fall in love" with certain players, coaching staff etc. and are willing to overlook some of their misgivings, unfortunately I believe this may be what has happened with AV in regards to some of the players, and his coaching staff


The only result they haven't gotten is the SC win, with a fairly depleted roster at times....and they've been close.

The status quo has given us some fairly good results, with no guarantees that changes will be improvements. People here speak like there's a magic formula...that you just go "get" someone that slides into place and makes things better. Sometimes, they make it worse. There are no guarantees and we hear that "AV's got a line up that he should win with". How about the Oilers? The coaching change didn't guarantee success.

If this years playoffs are disastrous then, yes, I definitely think a change is in order. But AV's been the one behind the bench who's helped MAKE this unit great...if he was an awful coach, that wouldn't be the case.
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#172 Ride the red Pony

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:26 AM

Do you maybe think it's because if the puck gets past him and it's a foot race the other way, he's going to lose?


I agree Deb, this could be one of the reasons, but with that being said, isn't that a conversation AV and MG should have had before they invested in him?Or do you think it was something they were willing to overlook because of his big shot?
In either case AV should have initiated a conversation with MG stating "that this would be a bad investment as I probably won't use him on the PP because of his foot speed."
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#173 Edlerberry

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:36 AM

A lot of us have been calling for AV's head the last few weeks, but considering the roster we've iced for the last few games, i'm mighty impressed that we've pulled this latest streak together (although that does come with stellar play by Schneids.)

But considering we've taken the Northwest division back with this roster, it's quite impressive.

Daniel Sedin - Henrik Sedin - Chris Higgins
Mason Raymond - Jordan Schroeder - Jannik Hansen
Andrew Gordon - Maxim Lapierre - Tom Sestito
Andrew Ebbett - Alex Burrows

Kevin Bieksa - Andrew Alberts
Dan Hamhuis - Jason Garrison
Chris Tanev - Cam Barker

And to those of us who thought AV may have lost the room, the team has adapted well to AV's readjustment to their game (the *%*%ing dump/change and grinding style, which is boring but in this case it's paying off). Not only that, should we also give AV credit for placing Hansen in a situation where he's having a breakout year this year?

I've been on the 'fire AV' bandwagon for a while, but I'll admit I've been impressed by this stretch of games the past two weeks.

For now at least, I'll bite my tongue and say I was wrong about AV. But I just don't know if we can go all the way with him.


Team does bad for 10 games. - Fire the coach.

Team does good for 5 games. - OK LOL SORRY COACH.
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#174 Ride the red Pony

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:49 AM

Do you maybe think it's because if the puck gets past him and it's a foot race the other way, he's going to lose?



The only result they haven't gotten is the SC win, with a fairly depleted roster at times....and they've been close.

The status quo has given us some fairly good results, with no guarantees that changes will be improvements. People here speak like there's a magic formula...that you just go "get" someone that slides into place and makes things better. Sometimes, they make it worse. There are no guarantees and we hear that "AV's got a line up that he should win with". How about the Oilers? The coaching change didn't guarantee success.

If this years playoffs are disastrous then, yes, I definitely think a change is in order. But AV's been the one behind the bench who's helped MAKE this unit great...if he was an awful coach, that wouldn't be the case.


I agree, AV does deserve some accolades, and I don't believe he is an "awful coach", I think it has just become a matter of complacency and a comfort level in a system that doesn't bode well for a playoff team.
As for the Oiler's, they are a young team, that I think will eventually find success, but do require some patience and can be afforded that. The Canucks are a proven commodity, with plenty of seasoning, so I guess my expectations are much greater.

I wish no "ill will" on AV, as you stated earlier, he has achieved some good things that shouldn't be overlooked.
Again, this is only my opinion, we need to move in a different direction to achieve the "ultimate" result.
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#175 Bananas

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:55 AM

I'll apologize to AV once we win a cup.


AV should be thanking his goaltender(s). AGAIN.
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Hey CDC! Remember this!?

http://forum.canucks...in-this-change/

#176 Bodee

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:05 AM

nah not really.. i mean they Canucks are riding good goaltending... if they had avg or even above avg goaltending in any of those game.. coulda easily lost every single one... i hope fans realized.. even with this mini streak.. and kesler coming back and everything... we are no where close to being a contender to win the cup.. there's still a lot of holes that needs to be filled...


I beg to disagree.

I think this year we have had our net minders, until recently playing about average, for them and it has forced AV AND our D to take stock and man up more at the back. Our attack is better than ever at back checking and they have done their level best to make life difficult for teams like LA, Nash, Dallas, Ducks etc.

Yes I grant you that both our goalies have had stellar games, especially Schneider but I still think we would have lost a few of these, had our defence not been scrapping for every puck.

We tend to underestimate what it's like to have Burr, Raymond, Hansen, Schroeder and Lapierre snapping at the heels of opposition players.

As for AV he doesn't need our apologies because all he needs to do is stand behind his record. Let us not forget there is a hell of a lot of luck in winning the SC. Officiating decisions, injuries, how stocked up your team is through good GM deals.........even down to the amount of travelling involved.
I will always criticise AV but I wouldn't change him because I think he is one of the best out there.

Edited by Bodee, 27 March 2013 - 09:29 AM.

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#177 DooBie604

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:19 AM

I agree, AV does deserve some accolades, and I don't believe he is an "awful coach", I think it has just become a matter of complacency and a comfort level in a system that doesn't bode well for a playoff team.
As for the Oiler's, they are a young team, that I think will eventually find success, but do require some patience and can be afforded that. The Canucks are a proven commodity, with plenty of seasoning, so I guess my expectations are much greater.

I wish no "ill will" on AV, as you stated earlier, he has achieved some good things that shouldn't be overlooked.
Again, this is only my opinion, we need to move in a different direction to achieve the "ultimate" result.


I agree with you on this one. AV is a good coach despite what people on here seem to think. He isn't the greatest coach and makes iffy calls but he is not nearly as bad as CDC makes him out to be.

When we win it's the players but when we lose it's the coach which is so ridiculous. Even last night people are saying Cory won the game and I won't take anything away from Cory as he made key saves and was great in the shootout but the Blue Jackets had only 7 shots coming into the third. That has to do with good coaching and execution and yet people still don't recognize this.

However, with that said, I also think it's time we moved on for a change in the locker room. I wish AV all the best but it is time for some sort of change, if only so that our core players can learn from someone else as well. He has been here so long and most the players have learned everything they could from him. A shake-up with new techniques and training may be what this team needs to get into an extra gear.
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#178 Bodee

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:43 AM

"I guess my personality is a little more results driven than some others that are happy with the "status quo", and I don't fault people for that, I understand people "fall in love" with certain players, coaching staff etc. and are willing to overlook some of their misgivings, unfortunately I believe this may be what has happened with AV in regards to some of the players, and his coaching staff.
Clear mind, Clear vision, will end with good results"


With respect, none of us know you from Adam. It is easy to sit at a keyboard and sound off about being "results driven" but in truth if you "never have to walk the walk it's easy to talk the talk" Come back when you have actually achieved some "results" in the NHL.

Most of us are anything but happy about not winning a SC but equally we are mature enough to appreciate that it not only requires a team strong enough to go through a series of rounds of best of 7 but it takes getting the rub of the green with the officiating and injuries and all manner of things.


This was best summed up for me when one of the best soccer managers in my country took his team to 6 Scottish Cup Finals and never won a single one of them, only to be succeeded by an absolute buffoon who took over and won the Cup against Glasgow Rangers. He was sacked the next season.

Edited by Bodee, 27 March 2013 - 12:15 PM.

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#179 Ride the red Pony

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:13 AM

"I guess my personality is a little more results driven than some others that are happy with the "status quo", and I don't fault people for that, I understand people "fall in love" with certain players, coaching staff etc. and are willing to overlook some of their misgivings, unfortunately I believe this may be what has happened with AV in regards to some of the players, and his coaching staff.
Clear mind, Clear vision, will end with good results"


With respect, none of us know you from Adam. It is easy to sit at a keyboard and sound off about being "results driven" but in truth if you "never have to walk the walk it's easy to talk the talk" Come back when you have actually achieved some "results" in the NHL.

Most of us are anything but happy about not winning a SC but equally we are mature enough to appreciate that it not only requires a team strong enough to go through a series of rounds of best of 7 but it takes getting the rub of the green with the officiating and injuries and all manor of things.


This was best summed up for me when one of the best soccer managers in my country took his team to 6 Scottish Cup Finals and never won a single one of them, only to be succeeded by an absolute buffoon who took over and won the Cup against Glasgow Rangers. He was sacked the next season.


I by no means meant to offend by the above statement, I made the statement in order to give a better understanding of the reason I have chosen to take the stance I have for a coaching change, I am simply drawing from my experience in business, as well as what I have witnessed with many of my colleagues in the business world.
Again, It is just an opinion, an opinion I have formed through some of the statements made by some of the posters(definitely not all), I should have made that more clear, I am not painting everyone with the same brush.
I appreciate the passion that has been shown on here, and believe I share the same, just trying to bring some clarity as to why I have taken the stance I have.
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#180 Vansicle

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:19 AM

In doing so (having time to read some of the comments), I've added something that you've overlooked. :) What we do know is that this team/coach is capable of coming very close to winning it all. What we don't is how someone else may fare in that if brought in. How they'll adjust/fit in, etc. So do we go with the unknown, to try to improve on something that's a proven formula for at least some success? Or do we stick with it and hope that the valuable experience of a team that's been through this (together) before will allow for tweaks and adjustments that may just put them over the edge?

We know team toughness in the playoffs has been an issue.

We know the officiating has been awful and inconsistent.

I say we go with what we know and who we have and learn to push back, as has been the case (to some degree). Dish it out as well as take it.

Saw Kadri go at Chara with a good hit last night...didn't care that it was the 9 foot beast...he played him hard despite this. Our guys need to do this...go down swinging (basically).

Sure, a SC win would be awesome but it would be so much sweeter with the guys who have been trying to get us there.

Well said however.

-Homer Deb

I used the word "could" deliberately, as it infers there may not be the desired result - could is the same as could not. And I deliberately put those two items next to each other to illustrate that changing either the coach or the players may produce a desired effect, or may not.
The main point was that there are various reasonable arguments to both sides of the issue - gum chewing and AV haterz do not qualify, however, among them.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 





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