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Do we owe AV an apology?


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#181 Aladeen

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:30 AM

I used the word "could" deliberately, as it infers there may not be the desired result - could is the same as could not. And I deliberately put those two items next to each other to illustrate that changing either the coach or the players may produce a desired effect, or may not.
The main point was that there are various reasonable arguments to both sides of the issue - gum chewing and AV haterz do not qualify, however, among them.

Wow stuff could happen or could not? Something may happen or it may not, both sides have reasonable arguments. Your insights into the obvious are astounding. Way to sit on the fence with your main point btw... I think this picture is perfect for your post:

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#182 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:55 AM

AV should be thanking his goaltender(s). AGAIN.


I've said it before and I'll say it again: The team has 10 million dollars invested in the goaltending position. It absolutely should be a difference maker to the Canucks.

Anybody notice how the Caps are improving lately? Maybe it has something to do with the way their 10 million dollar man is playing...
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#183 Vansicle

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:13 AM

I by no means meant to offend by the above statement, I made the statement in order to give a better understanding of the reason I have chosen to take the stance I have for a coaching change, I am simply drawing from my experience in business, as well as what I have witnessed with many of my colleagues in the business world.
Again, It is just an opinion, an opinion I have formed through some of the statements made by some of the posters(definitely not all), I should have made that more clear, I am not painting everyone with the same brush.
I appreciate the passion that has been shown on here, and believe I share the same, just trying to bring some clarity as to why I have taken the stance I have.

Don't worry. He's Scottish. He isn't mad, he just sounds mad. Having a fair amount of Scottish heritage, I speak from experience, and with all due respect.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#184 Vansicle

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:24 AM

Wow stuff could happen or could not? Something may happen or it may not, both sides have reasonable arguments. Your insights into the obvious are astounding. Way to sit on the fence with your main point btw... I think this picture is perfect for your post:

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That's a good start. No emo parrots, no picard facepalms. However, you did use a gif, tried to insult me with sarcasm, and added nothing to the conversation.
But, it's an improvement. No emoticons.
Keep reaching for the stars . . .

Below is the context, just for fun, of two adults with differing opinions bandying back and forth in an intelligent manner. Notice she didn't insult anyone, and I calmly explained the simple miscommunication, explaining that I didn't overlook anything, but rather worded it in a way that possibly made my position unclear. My position, by the way, has been consistent for years. I have not been on the fence at all.

"(or, it could completely disrupt the chemistry that comes with familiarity and take us from being a team that has a pretty good shot and is in the thick of things in the recent past to a team that isn't...our record hasn't been a problem, our playoff performances have been....but I attribute MUCH of that to injuries and being shellshocked by piss poor officiating. I believe they're learning to adjust to this and will adapt accordingly)
again - "could", or could have a negative impact"
-Deb Luvs Canucks

Notice that she took my meaning to assume it would have a positive impact, whereas my intention was to not say with absolute authority that "I know for a fact it will help" because, unlike some people here, I do not have the power to tell the future.

I eagerly await your well thought out, school yard insult. I'm sure it will be an insightful riposte.

Edited by Vansicle, 27 March 2013 - 11:38 AM.

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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#185 Aladeen

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:32 AM

That's a good start. No emo parrots, no picard facepalms. However, you did use a gif, tried to insult me with sarcasm, and added nothing to the conversation.
But, it's an improvement. No emoticons.
Keep reaching for the stars . . .

The irony of your last two posts is hilarious! Its interesting that you say emo parrots as I have never used a single one ever. But keep adding all your neutered opinons to every thread as they hold so much value. And please keep being a constant and vigilant purveyor of the obvious, it really helps me out. Some things I need to know:

Could the sun rise tomorrow?
Will it maybe rain?
Will you perhaps post another pointless and meaningless post and then accuse others of doing the same?
Is it possible the Canucks could win their next game?

Can't wait to learn your insight and sagacity on these hard hitting questions.
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#186 Aladeen

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

So close! No emoticons or gifs! You even threw in a 25¢ word while taking my words out of context to make yourself look . . . sagacious.

Keep swinging for the fences, little guy! I know you can do it!

hahaha Witty, amusing, deflecting... wow your post gets an A+ I will have to save it to read it again.

I bet you had to look up sagacity huh... come on be honest... that's why you pointed it out in this post...

I will make sure to use smaller words from now on.

I can even space them like t-h-i-s, c-a-u-s-e m-a-y-b-e t-h-a-t w-i-l-l h-e-l-p y-o-u u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d.

Or really we should just get you a nice box of crayons and you can go back to coloring in your corner. Yah we don't want you to get grumpy not being able to color with your crayons, after we can get you a nice juice box and you can have a little laydown for nap time.

I know how hard it must be having to learn a new word.
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#187 Bodee

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:17 PM

I by no means meant to offend by the above statement, I made the statement in order to give a better understanding of the reason I have chosen to take the stance I have for a coaching change, I am simply drawing from my experience in business, as well as what I have witnessed with many of my colleagues in the business world.
Again, It is just an opinion, an opinion I have formed through some of the statements made by some of the posters(definitely not all), I should have made that more clear, I am not painting everyone with the same brush.
I appreciate the passion that has been shown on here, and believe I share the same, just trying to bring some clarity as to why I have taken the stance I have.


Fair enough. We all want the same thing for this team. I just think that sometime we (me included) don't understand how difficult it is to lift the top prize..........(professional sport is not really like business at all I might add)

Edited by Bodee, 27 March 2013 - 12:25 PM.

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#188 brownky

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:53 PM

No, he's still been outcoached in every playoff series he's been in, despite the stacked roster he's been unable to get it done when it matters.

Regular season outcomes are completely worthless when game one of the first series of the playoffs rolls around. As long as the team makes it in, that's what counts.

President's trophy is nothing more than a trinket when compared to the Stanley Cup. To base any opinion on such a meaningless item is simply foolish.

At least he stopped being *completely* retarded, and put the speedy kids back together, as we on CDC were bitching about for the last month...
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#189 5minutesinthebox

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

No AV does not deserve an appology, what has he done?

The argument when they where loosing was it wasn't his fault because he isn't hands on and lets the team do their own thing.


Now that they are winning it's because of his smarts??

So what instead of putting Ballard at 4+ in the press box, he uses him as O on a very depleted forward lineup? Well crap what took him so long?


AV is a egotistical fool who has difficult adapting and changing(line juggling doesn't mean adapting it means confused)


This guy has to go and I pray it's soon


Hard to argue with that....whatever that is.
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#190 c-a-n-u-c-k-s

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

NO.. the only reason we're winning is AV was forced to juggle lines due to injuries. If everyone was healthy he'd play the same old top 2 or 3 lines all the time and the team is bored and unresponsive to that - AS EVIDENCED by all the great chemistry showing up with NEW lines and YOUNG players who he otherwise ignores when the "team" is healthy.

Am I wrong? The proof is pretty apparent watching this team the last few games... and in past times of injury causing the same... then full health... causing AV to go back to same old same old lines, no inspiration, old chemistry.

AV has NOT learned to go with what's working. He never has been good at that. He is self centered thinking that his plan is right... instead of the real time feedback of chemistry on the team.... or that a young rookie might be able to make a real impact and add inspiration to the whole team by their contributions. He will again MUTE all these good things... when the team is healthy.

Because of that I now believe he needs to be replaced. Winning now isn't a reason to keep him. Winning now is showing WHY he needs to go. TO set in his ways to morph into a dynamic team chemistry unless INJURIES FORCE HIM TO.

AM I WRONG?
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#191 Bananas

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:40 PM

Some, but not all of the stupid things AV has done this year:

- Scratches Ballard after a good start to the season
- Elder on the right side experiment not put to rest after way too long
- Never (until recently) tried Garrison on the right side, who has at least some experience there...
- Edler gets a free pass, with no accountability
- Took Kassian off the Sedin line permanently. Typically, I agree with Burrows being there. But sometimes, certain games dictate that Kassian should be there. There have been a few games that were rough for the Sedins. Just put Kassian up there.
- Kesler comes back, and our most productive line at the time is broken up.
- Kesler gets the most minutes of any forward first game back (or was it second game?)
- Kesler goes down, Speed Line not reunited
- Still never pulls Luongo. Can't recognize when a goalie is going to have a bad game until it's too late. That Detroit blowout, I saw Luongo was shaky after the first 2 goals, and a few saves that he made look hard. Goalies have bad days. AV should know when to pull him

Then there's some other usual stuff that's nothing new that I could go on and on about.


Some good things people claim AV has done this year:

- Kassian with Sedins. Wait, no... that was their idea. (Why isn't AV coaching this team? Oh right, he was when he broke the line up..)
- Decides which goalie to play. With a coin.
- Put the speed line together. Broke it up so he could ride Kesler?

...that's all I got.

AV's 2012-2013 Season in a nutshell so far.

Food for thought.
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#192 Ride the red Pony

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:42 PM

Fair enough. We all want the same thing for this team. I just think that sometime we (me included) don't understand how difficult it is to lift the top prize..........(professional sport is not really like business at all I might add)


I agree it is difficult to reach the pinnacle in any task that is worth while, as there will always be competition, in this case 29 other teams that are striving for that same position. With that being said, I have to disagree that pro sports is not a business, as we see the business side of it all the time, players being moved because of cap constraints etc.
AV being the manager of the players, isn't any different than a manager of any business unit trying to get the most out of his/her employees to achieve your peak performance and along with that the success that comes with that.
I am not of the mindset that AV hasn't been provided the tools to reach that pinnacle, perhaps this is where I may be wrong, but history would prove otherwise, IMO, only my opinion of course, It is more about the process than the people, a process that has been set in motion by AV and he refuses to deviate from this process, that has me questioning his leadership.
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#193 Bananas

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:47 PM

NO.. the only reason we're winning is AV was forced to juggle lines due to injuries. If everyone was healthy he'd play the same old top 2 or 3 lines all the time and the team is bored and unresponsive to that - AS EVIDENCED by all the great chemistry showing up with NEW lines and YOUNG players who he otherwise ignores when the "team" is healthy.

Am I wrong? The proof is pretty apparent watching this team the last few games... and in past times of injury causing the same... then full health... causing AV to go back to same old same old lines, no inspiration, old chemistry.

AV has NOT learned to go with what's working. He never has been good at that. He is self centered thinking that his plan is right... instead of the real time feedback of chemistry on the team.... or that a young rookie might be able to make a real impact and add inspiration to the whole team by their contributions. He will again MUTE all these good things... when the team is healthy.

Because of that I now believe he needs to be replaced. Winning now isn't a reason to keep him. Winning now is showing WHY he needs to go. TO set in his ways to morph into a dynamic team chemistry unless INJURIES FORCE HIM TO.

AM I WRONG?


Yes, you are wrong.

AV's line juggling has not been winning games. Cory Schneider has. Canucks scored 9 goals in 5 games, and most of that was the Speed Line, which he broke up earlier in the season because Kesler had some sort of BS seniority. As stupid as sounds, it's that OR it's the fact that AV wanted to ride Kesler again. EVICDENCED by the minutes Kesler got. We were fine without Kesler. Stick him on the 3rd while he is conditioned... no training camp and all...

So basically, you are wrong. AV doesn't need to be replaced. HE NEEDS TO BE REPLACED LAST YEAR.
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#194 brownky

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:54 PM

So basically, you are wrong. AV doesn't need to be replaced. HE NEEDS TO BE REPLACED LAST YEAR.


I'd settle for 2008.

But I know that he's not truly an NHL calibre coach. I have since before he was hired. I can't in all honesty cheer for this team with him as the coach, knowing we will never win. It's too heartbreaking.
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#195 pimpcurtly

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:16 PM

I'd settle for 2008.

But I know that he's not truly an NHL calibre coach. I have since before he was hired. I can't in all honesty cheer for this team with him as the coach, knowing we will never win. It's too heartbreaking.


I don't even know if you're being serious...that's how ridiculous this post is. :lol:
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#196 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:33 PM

Part of making intelligent decisions is timing. It's already been pointed out several times that Schroeder's play on the 2nd line after a good start, was cooling off. Combine that with the return of Booth and it made sense to move him to the 4th line for a while


Meanwhile, in Chicago, Ebbett was playing extremely well. The Canucks decided that it made sense to bring Ebbett up and let Schroeder play bigger minutes on the farm, in order to regain his confidence.

Ebbet immediately paid dividends, picking up 3 points in his first game with Raymond and Hansen, while being an upgrade in the faceoff circle and on the PK.

When Schroeder returned, his game was much improved and he is now back on the 2nd line and playing very well. (I'd like to point out BTW, that probably his best assist to date was not to Raymond or Hansen, it was to Dale Weise)

IMHO, the entire situation was handled extremely well by the Canucks' coaching and scouting staff.


Its all a matter of opinion I suppose.

I dont think developing players should ever be on the fourth line on this team. They should be on the farm where it makes sense, rather then being given scarce minutes on the big team.

You get plug linemates and plug ice time, which is counterproductive. I dont understand how a player is supposed to benefit from this; they have such a limited opportunity to show that they deserve a larger role.
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#197 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:06 PM

I'd settle for 2008.

But I know that he's not truly an NHL calibre coach. I have since before he was hired. I can't in all honesty cheer for this team with him as the coach, knowing we will never win. It's too heartbreaking.


Don't let the door hit you in the behind on your way out...

...we have plenty of whiners who don't have a clue even without you...
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#198 Aladeen

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:08 PM

I can't in all honesty cheer for this team with him as the coach,

Wow just wow... you really should go find another team to cheer for, start with finding a coach you like then just cheer for the team he coaches.

Good Riddance.
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#199 Bananas

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:10 PM

Don't let the door hit you in the behind on your way out...

...we have plenty of whiners who don't have a clue even without you...


Oh please. Get your head out of the sand.
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#200 Aladeen

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:12 PM

Its all a matter of opinion I suppose.

I dont think developing players should ever be on the fourth line on this team. They should be on the farm where it makes sense, rather then being given scarce minutes on the big team.

You get plug linemates and plug ice time, which is counterproductive. I dont understand how a player is supposed to benefit from this; they have such a limited opportunity to show that they deserve a larger role.

yah if they' aren't playing well they have two options 1.the fourth line and 2.the farm team... he ended up on the farm to which you say makes sense... so in other words the coaching staff did exactly what you think they should have done. What the hell are you arguing about? And to top it off it worked and now he's back... not on the 4th line... on the 2nd line because he is playing like he should be there.

Sounds like a coaching win to me... a well handled developing player.
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#201 Aladeen

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:15 PM

Regular season outcomes are completely worthless when game one of the first series of the playoffs rolls around. As long as the team makes it in, that's what counts.


Interesting under AV the Canucks have been consistantly able to do that more than any other coach we have previously had.
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#202 Canada Hockey Place

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:16 PM

I'd settle for 2008.

But I know that he's not truly an NHL calibre coach. I have since before he was hired. I can't in all honesty cheer for this team with him as the coach, knowing we will never win. It's too heartbreaking.


Not only ridiculous but posts like this make anybody with legitimate reasons for a coaching change look bad by association.


Its all a matter of opinion I suppose.

I dont think developing players should ever be on the fourth line on this team. They should be on the farm where it makes sense, rather then being given scarce minutes on the big team.


You have to take into consideration that the VAN roster set when healthy. Meaning prospects will never get a chance unless they are adaptable. Even a limited role is better then no chance at all.
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#203 CanuckleHorse

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:29 PM

Meh, I've always thought he was a good regular season coach but not a good playoff one.

I think its because you match lines more you make line combos to combat what the other coach is doing but AV is no that good at doing these things!
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#204 pimpcurtly

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:33 PM

Not only ridiculous but posts like this make anybody with legitimate reasons for a coaching change look bad by association.


Well said, completely agree.

Edited by pimpcurtly, 27 March 2013 - 03:34 PM.

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#205 bluesman60

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:42 PM

I don't owe AV an apology because I have supported the winningest coach in Canuck history since day 1. Yes you are right in that he has done well in spite of not having a complete team to work with.
All I can say is 'thanks to the heavens that CDC is not running this team' and yes AV can take this team all the way when everyone is healthy and the 'trades' have been competed and the holes are plugged.
Do I think that this is our year....no I don't. You can't win a Cup with a box of bandaids. This is the year to get the trades done and restock the prospect pool as well as get a top 6 forward who can score and become cap compliant for next season when we can come out and play 'guns brazin' Canuck hockey.
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#206 Tearloch7

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:05 PM

I'd settle for 2008.

But I know that he's not truly an NHL calibre coach. I have since before he was hired. I can't in all honesty cheer for this team with him as the coach, knowing we will never win. It's too heartbreaking.


Keep up the good work .. any time you can "confuse" this many CDC regulars you are doing something right .. :rolleyes:
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#207 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:20 PM

Schroeder wasn't playing poorly before the idiot coach moved him to the 4th line. Looks like you ate up the cr*p that av fed the media.


No actually he was. He had a good game but overall he wasn't playing great. he was creating very little. Kesler came back, Schroeder dropped in the depth chart and never went back up when Kesler went back down because he hadn't played well in that position.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 27 March 2013 - 04:22 PM.

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#208 ThaBestPlaceOnEarth

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:24 PM

Maybe I am the only one around here thinking this, but I think that the Canucks have been so bad on the powerplay because they are intentionally holding stuff back. The last few seasons teams got too good a look at what our powerplay was doing and they were able to shut it down in the playoffs. This year we are keeping it under wraps and when they break it out in the playoffs teams will have no reference point or video clips and they'll be like yo what is going on here? It's the black ops stuff, dirty tricks y'know.
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#209 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:30 PM

All the AV haters are tools. The only way you guys will learn is if you have to learn the hard way and unfortunately for me (As a Canucks fan) I'll probably end up having to tag along for the ride because of all you babies who think you have all the answers and whine relentlessly, it's pure foolishness.

With all the injuries we've sustained and the fact we are still dealing with the whole "two goalies in the crease" controversy, I think we've played very well. We have put together 5 straight to redeem ourselves and are headed in a good direction, if we were out of playoff contention then I could understand the hate directed towards the coach. But we're not, so just do everyone a favour and shut up about it already. :mellow:
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"It's an opportunity, we don't look at it as a last chance... We look at it as an opportunity to do something great. We are going to take it period by period, shift by shift. You just have to be better than the guy across from you... Every guy in this locker room I can say believes we can do this." - Ryan Kesler

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#210 stanley2012

stanley2012

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:48 PM

...no, Schneider's been playing lights out. Once we lose 2-3 in a row again the fire AV threads will pop back up. BTW we may be a head of minny by a whopping two points but they have two games in hand...
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