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Where We Stand, Total Breakdown of current roster


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#1 twinlove

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:37 AM

Sedins and Burrows: for the most part when our standard first line is playing together they control the pace of the game although for us to be a contender we require a significant increase in production from this unit.

Hansen: he has elevated his game to a player with his strength and speed that can be a top 6 player for a contender

Raymond: With the way he is currently playing he can be a quality line 3 winger for a contender and with the chemistry he has working with Hansen right now he is capable of playing in the top 6 and allowing us to be a contender.

Kesler: Injured now obviously, the biggest question for him is how healthy he will be for playoffs. If he is fully healthy he is capable of what Canucks fans were privileged to witness in 2011, the biggest question often for Kesler when healthy is whether or not he can find chemistry with top 6 capable forwards.

Kassian: Based on his skill level I will personally say I have been overall dissatisfied with the amount of opportunity he has been given. The combination of his speed, strength, puck handling and vision make him arguably the most effective player after Sedins burrows kesler and hansen and possibly even somewhere in that mix.

The only players I lock in as top 6 are Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Hansen
because of this when Kassian is healthy I believe he should be given as much oppurtunity as possible to elevate his game as he is the closest to being our best weapon outside of those previously mention.

Higgins: At his best maybe he can be valuable in the top 6 however this is not seen frequently enought and the upside is not quite how enough that i am comfortable calling him a capable top 6 forward on a contending team. When is playing well he can be a third line player on a contending team, I would like to see us add a player that pushes Higgins out of the lineup.

Schroeder: I would like to see us improve on our third line center however Schroeder is fast, winning his draws and playing responsible hockey. His level of responsibility is high enough that his inexperience does not bother me. I would like maybe to see more scoring however it really just feels like we need to upgrade our third line scoring because of the woes in the top 6. Our healthy lineup third line right now is at least as good as its been the past five years or so if not better. This includes our Lappy Hansen Torres/Higgins line our Wellwood Bernier Demitra line and the others

Lappy: This guy is the most underutilized forward with maybe the exception of Kassian. He completely controls the pace of the game and though his scoring is limited his play control is particularly impressive in the bottom 6. He was a very capable 3rd line center for the 2011 SC edition of our team. It is hard to understand why Ebbett is getting those minutes.

Ebbett: Definitely a servicable replacement but I feel many sometimes forget that he is a replacement b/c when he is in the lineup we should be worried because the opposition has a better option.

Booth: Kesler has difficulty finding chemistry sometimes but Booth almost has no ability. No question his skill set is extremely high and that is why I would like to see him play as an energy guy on our fourth line or become a shut down player playing on a Lappy third line. However if we could move him at the deadline that might be best

Those are the forwards I'm interested in

Edler: Another top player who has not been bad but needs to elevate his level of production

Hammer: Most consistent reliable top end defenseman. Last year he did a very good job on the PP and if it continues to struggle Hammer is the guy I would like to see getting more oppurtunities on the first unit.

Bieksa: I don't have a lot to say other then 2011 Bieksa received much Conne Smythe consideration

Tanev: continues to impress, it is difficult to say just what he is ready for but what he brings to the table reminds me of Willie Mitchell. Lockdown player with limited offence but can play big minutes shutting down top players.

Garrison: He is a clear cut NHL defensemen but the Canucks needed him to be Sami Salo and he is behind that expectation in really all facets of the game. He can play a bottom pairing role almost certainly but he would probably be a weak top 4 d man.

Ballard: Ballard is a D man, he can make scary plays at times but he is a top 4 skilled D man who IMO is definitely a shoe-in bottom pairing player. I overall trust him more-so then Garrison and would like to see him stop being inconsistently used.

Alberts: IMO this player has been a disaster the whole time he has been with the organization. I must have a severe bias here because potential aside I have rarely seen anything more than a player who is far far away from being NHL caliber. I probably wouldnt want him on a AHL team.

Barker: never really watched him


GOALIES:

If you share my opinion our window is roughly three years, I believe that right now and for most of that time the top of Luongo's game is considerably higher then that of Cory. I believe we can contend but that without having Luo at the top of his game is net for us we are at a serious disadvantage. Cory is a very talented goaltender and a clearcut number 1 but IMO the canucks are only good enough that even if Cory is more consistent and doesn't have "playoff demons" that at his best the Canucks do not have the Goalie edge against LA, Anaheim, Boston and but the feeling is widespread. IMO Luo at his best is still the best in the league even if it is not that consistent it is what we have to hope for.

My desired lineup for Playoffs with current roster:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Hansen-Kesler-Raymond
Kassian-Lappy/Jord-Booth/Higgins and preferably a new face
Booth-Lappy/Jord-Wiese

Edler
Hammer
Bieksa
Tanev
Ballard
Garrison

#2 Hamhuis2

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:20 AM

Pretty good assessment, however I have to disagree with you on Garrison. He has been an excellent shutdown defender, really elevating his game the past 10 games or so. He's also on pace for 13 goals/82 games. If he can play as he has, he is a very solid top-4 defender.
Edler really does need to step up his game however, starting in the defensive end. If he cleans up his defence and plays calmer, the offense will come.
At this point of the season, I'd rate our backend as such:
Tanev/Hamhuis
Garrison
Bieksa
Edler
Ballard
Alberts
Barker

I'd personally love to see these pairings:

Hamhuis-Garrison(has looked like an elite shutdown pair)
Edler-Tanev(Tanev can provide the calm presence that Edler needs, like Salo did. It also lets Edler take more offensive risks.)
Bieksa-Ballard (Both players can be inconsistent at times, however in this pairing we can play Bieksa in more of a shutdown role and let Ballard wheel a bit)
Chicago Blackhawks NHL 14 OCDC League 2013/2014

J. Schultz(81)-Toews(92)-Pacioretty(88)....Keith(90)-Phaneuf(87)................Crawford(86)
Burns(87)-Kadri(85)-Yakupov(83)..............Hjalmarson(85)-N. Schultz(84)....Khabby(76)
Clarkson(83)-Zibanejad(80)-Ennis(82).......Koska(78)-Murray(83)
Kobasew(78)-Hanszus(79)-Morin(76)

#3 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:57 AM

If the Canucks are going to win in the playoffs, they are going to need the twins constantly producing because when Kesler comes back he is going to be rusty and we ant expect him to frequently produce for us. Our secondary scoring will have to be from guys like Raymond, Hansen, and Higgins
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#4 michael_kha

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:44 AM

We need someone who will SHOOT the puck. Enough of this passing it around until it goes into the net ..

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Mike Kha


#5 billabong

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:16 AM

Two things....

The canucks must trade luo now while they still have some leverage. in the offseason the canucks will be low balled because teams now that they haft to unload his contract no matter what

They also haft to make a hard run at clowe, clarkson or ott...if they haft to pay the piper to acquire a player like these guys then u haft too .....these players don't make it too free agency and there is no fair price, there is only overpayment
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#6 twinlove

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:16 PM

Clarkson would be a good option however I have a hard time believing we have any package we could put together to get him and remain SC competitive. Ott and Clowe are good players but I'm not sure sure they are a significant upgrade. Those two players ability to score isn't far enough ahead of the players we already have to make a considerable difference.

I would agree that our window is open now and we should push for it but if we are going to give up a player like a Jensen or a Shroeder, I think we need a definite scoring and contributing forward like a Iginla, Jagr or a Ray Whitney. Tanguay is another guy I haven't heard mentioned much who I would like to see and though he would not be cheap compared to Iginla and Jagr he would be and he is a scoring player who has won a Cup.

#7 Aladeen

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:44 PM

Sedins and Burrows: for the most part when our standard first line is playing together they control the pace of the game although for us to be a contender we require a significant increase in production from this unit.

Hansen: he has elevated his game to a player with his strength and speed that can be a top 6 player for a contender

Raymond: With the way he is currently playing he can be a quality line 3 winger for a contender and with the chemistry he has working with Hansen right now he is capable of playing in the top 6 and allowing us to be a contender.

Kesler: Injured now obviously, the biggest question for him is how healthy he will be for playoffs. If he is fully healthy he is capable of what Canucks fans were privileged to witness in 2011, the biggest question often for Kesler when healthy is whether or not he can find chemistry with top 6 capable forwards.

Kassian: Based on his skill level I will personally say I have been overall dissatisfied with the amount of opportunity he has been given. The combination of his speed, strength, puck handling and vision make him arguably the most effective player after Sedins burrows kesler and hansen and possibly even somewhere in that mix.

The only players I lock in as top 6 are Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Hansen
because of this when Kassian is healthy I believe he should be given as much oppurtunity as possible to elevate his game as he is the closest to being our best weapon outside of those previously mention.

Higgins: At his best maybe he can be valuable in the top 6 however this is not seen frequently enought and the upside is not quite how enough that i am comfortable calling him a capable top 6 forward on a contending team. When is playing well he can be a third line player on a contending team, I would like to see us add a player that pushes Higgins out of the lineup.

Schroeder: I would like to see us improve on our third line center however Schroeder is fast, winning his draws and playing responsible hockey. His level of responsibility is high enough that his inexperience does not bother me. I would like maybe to see more scoring however it really just feels like we need to upgrade our third line scoring because of the woes in the top 6. Our healthy lineup third line right now is at least as good as its been the past five years or so if not better. This includes our Lappy Hansen Torres/Higgins line our Wellwood Bernier Demitra line and the others

Lappy: This guy is the most underutilized forward with maybe the exception of Kassian. He completely controls the pace of the game and though his scoring is limited his play control is particularly impressive in the bottom 6. He was a very capable 3rd line center for the 2011 SC edition of our team. It is hard to understand why Ebbett is getting those minutes.

Ebbett: Definitely a servicable replacement but I feel many sometimes forget that he is a replacement b/c when he is in the lineup we should be worried because the opposition has a better option.

Booth: Kesler has difficulty finding chemistry sometimes but Booth almost has no ability. No question his skill set is extremely high and that is why I would like to see him play as an energy guy on our fourth line or become a shut down player playing on a Lappy third line. However if we could move him at the deadline that might be best

Those are the forwards I'm interested in

Edler: Another top player who has not been bad but needs to elevate his level of production

Hammer: Most consistent reliable top end defenseman. Last year he did a very good job on the PP and if it continues to struggle Hammer is the guy I would like to see getting more oppurtunities on the first unit.

Bieksa: I don't have a lot to say other then 2011 Bieksa received much Conne Smythe consideration

Tanev: continues to impress, it is difficult to say just what he is ready for but what he brings to the table reminds me of Willie Mitchell. Lockdown player with limited offence but can play big minutes shutting down top players.

Garrison: He is a clear cut NHL defensemen but the Canucks needed him to be Sami Salo and he is behind that expectation in really all facets of the game. He can play a bottom pairing role almost certainly but he would probably be a weak top 4 d man.

Ballard: Ballard is a D man, he can make scary plays at times but he is a top 4 skilled D man who IMO is definitely a shoe-in bottom pairing player. I overall trust him more-so then Garrison and would like to see him stop being inconsistently used.

Alberts: IMO this player has been a disaster the whole time he has been with the organization. I must have a severe bias here because potential aside I have rarely seen anything more than a player who is far far away from being NHL caliber. I probably wouldnt want him on a AHL team.

Barker: never really watched him


GOALIES:

If you share my opinion our window is roughly three years, I believe that right now and for most of that time the top of Luongo's game is considerably higher then that of Cory. I believe we can contend but that without having Luo at the top of his game is net for us we are at a serious disadvantage. Cory is a very talented goaltender and a clearcut number 1 but IMO the canucks are only good enough that even if Cory is more consistent and doesn't have "playoff demons" that at his best the Canucks do not have the Goalie edge against LA, Anaheim, Boston and but the feeling is widespread. IMO Luo at his best is still the best in the league even if it is not that consistent it is what we have to hope for.

My desired lineup for Playoffs with current roster:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Hansen-Kesler-Raymond
Kassian-Lappy/Jord-Booth/Higgins and preferably a new face
Booth-Lappy/Jord-Wiese

Edler
Hammer
Bieksa
Tanev
Ballard
Garrison

You haven't watch Cam Barker play? You know he is has suited up for half a dozen games this season right? If you have never watch this guy play why should we take your player by player team breakdown to have any value whatesoever?

A lot of what you point out is obvious... or just plain wrong (Particularly your assesment of the D and Higgins)
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#8 twinlove

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:55 PM

You haven't watch Cam Barker play? You know he is has suited up for half a dozen games this season right? If you have never watch this guy play why should we take your player by player team breakdown to have any value whatesoever?

A lot of what you point out is obvious... or just plain wrong (Particularly your assesment of the D and Higgins)




For one if a lot of what I point is obvious that is good because I was trying to point out where we stand as I see it. As for your disagreement with the D assessment an explanation of why you disagree would be nice.

As for me and watching Barker, I have seen him play a limited amount and do not think I am ready to offer an assessment, but I don't follow your logic as to how there is a relation between judging other individual elements of our team and judging Barker.

#9 twinlove

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:03 PM

TSN mentioned Gaborik as an option and though I would put him at the bottom of the group I would add him to the Iginla, Jagr Whitney group of players with the particular skill set we need

#10 ken kaniff

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:11 PM

For one if a lot of what I point is obvious that is good because I was trying to point out where we stand as I see it. As for your disagreement with the D assessment an explanation of why you disagree would be nice.

As for me and watching Barker, I have seen him play a limited amount and do not think I am ready to offer an assessment, but I don't follow your logic as to how there is a relation between judging other individual elements of our team and judging Barker.


Edler has been on and off bad this season. He's had some solid games defensively but hes been very sketchy in his own zone more
hamhuis hasnt been hamhuis. lately he has but at the start of the season he was bad. not the consistent d-man you speak of
Garrison has been playing top 4 all year, hes fine there.
Alberts is a depth d-man, hes nothing special and has been bad in some games
Tanev has been out most reliable d-man
Ballard over Garrison? your nuts, Ballard has been good with Tanev he was a top 4 d-man, but without him hes a defensive liability.

and if you havent seen Barker play that much that means you dont have a proper basis to judge anyone since those games you weren't watching. would you cross a bridge with bolts and screws missing? no. its pretty much me judging everyone on NYR, iv seen quite a few of their games but i haven't watched all of them. i wouldn't be able to make assumptions on everyone.
If you cant see why you arent valid then you arent smart either.

RIP rick

Take it sleazy, and I'm out.


#11 twinlove

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:15 PM

Edler has been on and off bad this season. He's had some solid games defensively but hes been very sketchy in his own zone more
hamhuis hasnt been hamhuis. lately he has but at the start of the season he was bad. not the consistent d-man you speak of
Garrison has been playing top 4 all year, hes fine there.
Alberts is a depth d-man, hes nothing special and has been bad in some games
Tanev has been out most reliable d-man
Ballard over Garrison? your nuts, Ballard has been good with Tanev he was a top 4 d-man, but without him hes a defensive liability.

and if you havent seen Barker play that much that means you dont have a proper basis to judge anyone since those games you weren't watching. would you cross a bridge with bolts and screws missing? no. its pretty much me judging everyone on NYR, iv seen quite a few of their games but i haven't watched all of them. i wouldn't be able to make assumptions on everyone.
If you cant see why you arent valid then you arent smart either.


It is pathetic how poorly spoken some people on this site choose to be when commenting. I specifically didn't give an evaluation on Barker and it the part your hung up on is that I titled the thread "total Breakdown of current roster", you are right I will try to change that but IMO that is hardly worth discussing. The point of the thread was to present an evaluation and stimulate discussion about it. You did that partially and I will comment on that, the attack of character though hilarious and possibly telling of your character is unnecessary and unwarranted.

The biggest theme that seems to persist pertains to a belief that I have undervalued Garrison. For one its good to hear people are confident in him but what I was trying to get across is that at the top of their game Bieksa, Hamhuis, Tanev, Edler and IMO Ballard are better able to contribute to us winning Lord Stanley's Cup. Is it a stretch to give Ballard that credit maybe but here is something to think about, though this isnt an assessment of his play it is just interesting to note as one point MG must have valued him around this highly based on the value he gave up to get him.




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