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BuretoMogilny

Hesitant to pull the trigger?

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Edit Post Iginla trade. Seeing as so many have misunderstood the point of the commentary below. I have summarized it here. It will save you time and me headaches having to repeat myself explaining this. The comments below are examples.

The hypothesis is rather simple:

This post is not about iginla or any other player in particular. It IS about a confluence of errors by MG that has put us in a position to not compete for the cup today, not compete for it tomorrow and not be in the position to go aquire the players to help us compete now when we have a window. As I mentioned below - we are 'stuck in the middle'. Not good enough to win now, competitive yes, no depth to see a bright future, and no depth to trade to get us over the hump now. These are all things that MG stated he would change taking over from Nonis. This team is largely the same. Its depth is argubaly worse as is its pipeline.

I was initially a fan of MG's when he first came. Given he had years of experience evaluating players as an agent (clearly he had to focus on trying to find the diamonds in the rough and sign them), his desire to address the whole organization from player development in the minors to ensuring his NHL players were well taken care of, he seemed like he was going to come in and make a big difference.

5-6 years (however many he's been here) later, my opinion of him is changing. Not 'changed' yet but starting to lean to a view of happy with above average play and competing for a cup vs. WINNING one.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe he wants to win, but doesn't have the nerve to make the 'big move'. Part of this is due to lack of depth, but then whom do we blame for that? He has been here 5 years and honestly the depth of this organization is probably as bad as its ever been. Here are my thoughts.

1. He has made some good moves, lets not be one sided, and for those he needs to be commended. Signing the Sedins to decent contracts, Schnieds, Edler, Hamhuis, finding Tanev, Burrows, even Garrison is looking like he's coming around.

2. The team went to the cup and has been winning in the regular season. Erhoff for a bag of pucks was a steal and he was not worth what Buffalo paid, so I give him credit on both the catch and the release.

However, since the cup finals he has made alot of bad moves and now at a time when this team is really at a crossroads, seems like he's happy to stand pat. At a time when you see pittsburgh going after Morrow, rumours on Iginla going there, Boston, Chicago, we say we don't want a winger. MG doesn't want a winger with heart and grit? Size, who can score? Even as a rental? This is where his errors begin.

1. He has incorrectly evaluated the character of his team, and ability to compete in the post season. In 2011 his team got hot at the right time and they had a much grittier mix of players. Moroever, his current players that were on that roster, were playing much harder, like they had something to prove (Kesler, Edler, Bieksa, even Lou).

2. He then felt, because of that play, he needed only to 'tinker' with his lineup. Well last year's exit, how we seem to get manhandled by larger teams should say enough, but he still ignores this, almost delusionally thinking, perhaps due to denial, that his choices were correct and they will come around and compete when its time. This is his fatal flaw.

3. Adding marginal players with big salaries who have not played to those salaries. Booth - size, sped and hands apparently - he's been a bust, lets face it. Overpaid for a 30 goal year and he's shown none of that here. Perhaps its just the wrong system but he doesn't use his size, hasn't scored and doesn't seem to be a threat on the ice.

4. Wasting money on ballard. I love ballard and i think he could be a top 4. But there is no room for him and AV hates him. So why did MG spend 4 ml on a player we didnt need? Better off finding a stay at home tough dman for 2-3 ml who makes few errors and is good with the first pass.

5. Timing of the CoHo deal. No need to flog a dead horse here. I love Kassian but the timing was atrocious.

6. Signing Lu to the monster deal when he KNEW he had a stud in Schnieder. His ability to judge talent should have told him, lets at least hedge. I don't anticipate ever trading the guy but keep some flexibility given I should be able to see Schnieds has potential.

7. Allowing Torres to leave over 750k. We lacked intensity and grit and he lets it walk. Its showing now and will in the playoffs

8. Best for last. A lack of willingess to 'go for it'. With Jerome Iginla available, Vancouver on his list, he comes out and says no wingers. Well why is that? Well 1. We need a center. Well why is that? Well he's failed to create depth at the MOST important position in hockey - that is his fault. In addition we have a plethora of wingers. Too bad they are either all too small to compete in the playoffs or are plugs. Futher, we have a lack of prospect depth, not allowing us to provide the other team with enough incentive to trade with us, without taking a roster player (ie Pitts has incredible depth in their system on D and they haven't had great draft positions either).

Jerome Iginla gives the 2013 Canucks a fighting chance at the cup. He brings heart, a winner's attitude, leadership, 30 real goals, a guy who can play on the pp, a guy who will teach Kesler, Kassian, Edler what it means to compete and want it - but we don't want that?

MG is showing us, he's happy with a team that competes in the regular season, and has an outside chance at the cup if it gets lucky, but isn't willing to go all in. Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, are all trying to go all in and they have younger teams.

What this tells me is MG's strategy is really to be what we call in business - "Stuck in the middle". He won't go for it, but he's not weak enough to rebuild. We're starting to look like San Jose, Calgary of the 2000's and soon Toronto.

One would suggest he has to make a choice, my argument is, his confluence of errors means he already has made his choices and now is paying for them.

To have the Sedins in their prime and not be in a position to challenge for a cup is terrible. They are slowing, we can all see it. Kesler is constantly hurt and an egomaniac so not addressing our issues at center is unbelievable. Kassian is being misused and is really our only player with size AND hands, Luongo and his 5.3 million. are wasted on the bench when at worst he could have brought cap releif and picks we could have used as part of a deadline rental.

MG has scuttled this team due to his own willingess to accept mediocrity.

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3) booth doesnt use his size? he has underperformed no doubt but one thing he does use is his size and speed.

4) ballard was acquired before hamhuis and was the safety valve incase we didnt get him.

5) i think the canucks knew that with keslers injuries last year was going to be a very difficult task to go anywhere.

7) you have to give to get, we dont have the young assets that boston/pittsburgh have been handed to them by the leafs and to a lesser extent the hurricanes. We arent in a position to trade a top prospect and a 1st round pick for a rental player.

edit: rest of your post is just drivel. there has been 4-5 trades this year total, there isnt a whole lot on the market.

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Your way off dude. Sorry I disagree with pretty much everything you said. Being a GM is not easy as you think. A lot of moves are made not knowing how it will impact the team. Ballard was pretty much equal to Dan Hamhius when we acquired them back in 2010. No one else can say otherwise. They were = in terms of calibre.

You mentioned we need to go after Iginla,b ut questioned the ballard trade, at least Keith Ballard we get to hang onto him for 5 years. How bout Iginla? he might jet, and will cost more then what we traded Ballard for. So your argument is inaccurate, and really, full of crap.

What I always do, Is ask the person bashing gillis one question.

What would you do?

But they are too chicken crap to answer because they have no clue.

So what would you do? Who would you trade for Iginla? Please answer.

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There's almost no "big, bold moves" happening around the league in case you hadn't noticed. It's the CBA, not MG that you have an issue with.

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3) booth doesnt use his size? he has underperformed no doubt but one thing he does use is his size and speed.

4) ballard was acquired before hamhuis and was the safety valve incase we didnt get him.

5) i think the canucks knew that with keslers injuries last year was going to be a very difficult task to go anywhere.

7) you have to give to get, we dont have the young assets that boston/pittsburgh have been handed to them by the leafs and to a lesser extent the hurricanes. We arent in a position to trade a top prospect and a 1st round pick for a rental player.

edit: rest of your post is just drivel. there has been 4-5 trades this year total, there isnt a whole lot on the market.

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I read the first couple paragraphs and then part of the third. There is no need to read the rest of it IMO.

If you think you can do a better job then go to RA and apply for MG's job.

You have no idea what MG discusses with teams, what deals are close and fall apart etc.

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Your way off dude. Sorry I disagree with pretty much everything you said. Being a GM is not easy as you think. A lot of moves are made not knowing how it will impact the team. Ballard was pretty much equal to Dan Hamhius when we acquired them back in 2010. No one else can say otherwise. They were = in terms of calibre.

You mentioned we need to go after Iginla,b ut questioned the ballard trade, at least Keith Ballard we get to hang onto him for 5 years. How bout Iginla? he might jet, and will cost more then what we traded Ballard for. So your argument is inaccurate, and really, full of crap.

What I always do, Is ask the person bashing gillis one question.

What would you do?

But they are too chicken crap to answer because they have no clue.

So what would you do? Who would you trade for Iginla? Please answer.

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Your way off dude. Sorry I disagree with pretty much everything you said. Being a GM is not easy as you think. A lot of moves are made not knowing how it will impact the team. Ballard was pretty much equal to Dan Hamhius when we acquired them back in 2010. No one else can say otherwise. They were = in terms of calibre.

You mentioned we need to go after Iginla,b ut questioned the ballard trade, at least Keith Ballard we get to hang onto him for 5 years. How bout Iginla? he might jet, and will cost more then what we traded Ballard for. So your argument is inaccurate, and really, full of crap.

What I always do, Is ask the person bashing gillis one question.

What would you do?

But they are too chicken crap to answer because they have no clue.

So what would you do? Who would you trade for Iginla? Please answer.

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Just a little while ago, I felt exactly the way you are thinking right now, but I realized that nothing is easy in the NHL. There are 29 other GM's who also want the very best for their team , and they aren't giving up players very easily. MG can't make that big bold move if no one wants to deal with him. Luongo's contract is probably ridiculously tough to move, and his cap hit isn't all that flowery.

It really isn't an easy job, so while I see where you're coming from, there isn't much we can do at this point but hope that a team becomes desperate.

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There's almost no "big, bold moves" happening around the league in case you hadn't noticed. It's the CBA, not MG that you have an issue with.

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LOL @ Iginla.

Can you imagine the king's ransom that the flames would demand from us for Iginla?

Not worth it.

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I dunno I partially agree with you on it but I'm not counting him out yet.. last years deadline deals weren't very good. Granted we haven't seen the final rewards but yes the timing was off.

I think his timing overall is ok.. We are not in Pittsburgh's position to go for it. We need kesler to return to form before we think about selling the farm for a run.. Go ahead and add iginla for Jensen and a 1st but your not going anywhere if kes doesn't regain for this year. That is a major risk that I think he is spot on with his risk management.

I know the twins aren't getting younger but IMO this is not the year to go all in. A good centre addition and if kesler returning to form we can contend anyways.

If you can get a goalie trade done now then great that helps us this year. IMO lets get through this rash of injuries with a decent deadline pickup, not a home run. Then let kesler and edler have a solid offseason of getting strong and ready to be themselves and not a player struggling to find his way after injury.

Then you got another pack of picks, another first round gem, maybe another corrado steal to go along with Jensen gaunce corrado Schroeder. Maybe lain mallet or blomstrand looks promising?

When I break it down next year we will have the prospect pool to make some sacrifice and load the team up.

Be patient B2M, we got a chance to surprise this year and make a major run next year.. This window ain't closed yet!

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So much is assumption....do you really think the fans are privvy to what is going on behind the scenes? And just because a GM says something to the public doesn't mean it's "how it is"...it's a game that is played. Teams that seem desperate are played upon with regard to that. You have to say you're not going after something, at times, when you really are. It's how bargaining works.

If you go out with a laundry list of what you: want, need, are willing to pay/trade, etc. then you have no ability TO bargain...you put yourself in the passenger seat with someone else at the wheel. If you rush to a market where offers are accepted, do you say "I really, REALLY want/need that?" Or do you play it cool to see what you can work out? Buying a house? It's a chess board mentality.

GM's don't have the luxury of hindsight either...they must act based upon what they "think" at the time. Nothing is a given when it comes to human beings and their performance...too many variables. And the prices are inflated when everyone's in the market for the same, few available commodities.

He plays his hand close to his chest. He gives media friendly information that pacifies, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have an ace up his sleeve. It doesn't mean he hasn't tried things that just isn't public information.

Iginla is awesome...love him. But he's at the downside of his career and has slowed down a lot...for the $$$$ that he'll command, really?...do we really want to go in that direction?

We have some grit for the playoffs and this group, better than anyone, likely knows what a battle it will be...I think they're more prepared for that now.

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If there's no deal to be had,you dont/can't make it...saying that MG is 'timid' or has no balls is a bit of a laugh.

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I dunno I partially agree with you on it but I'm not counting him out yet.. last years deadline deals weren't very good. Granted we haven't seen the final rewards but yes the timing was off.

I think his timing overall is ok.. We are not in Pittsburgh's position to go for it. We need kesler to return to form before we think about selling the farm for a run.. Go ahead and add iginla for Jensen and a 1st but your not going anywhere if kes doesn't regain for this year. That is a major risk that I think he is spot on with his risk management.

I know the twins aren't getting younger but IMO this is not the year to go all in. A good centre addition and if kesler returning to form we can contend anyways.

If you can get a goalie trade done now then great that helps us this year. IMO lets get through this rash of injuries with a decent deadline pickup, not a home run. Then let kesler and edler have a solid offseason of getting strong and ready to be themselves and not a player struggling to find his way after injury.

Then you got another pack of picks, another first round gem, maybe another corrado steal to go along with Jensen gaunce corrado Schroeder. Maybe lain mallet or blomstrand looks promising?

When I break it down next year we will have the prospect pool to make some sacrifice and load the team up.

Be patient B2M, we got a chance to surprise this year and make a major run next year.. This window ain't closed yet!

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