Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Hesitant to pull the trigger?


BuretoMogilny

Recommended Posts

No, I don't. But I'm not nerd raging at a GM either. I do know what nerd rage sounds like though. Its not necessary to read much of your posts to see where you are at. You are just lashing out. Far too much anger for there to be any substance. Far too much emotion to be rational. And of course there are the delusions of grandeur where you think you can do a better job. If you don't want childish responses, don't post childish things in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was initially a fan of MG's when he first came. Given he had years of experience evaluating players as an agent (clearly he had to focus on trying to find the diamonds in the rough and sign them), his desire to address the whole organization from player development in the minors to ensuring his NHL players were well taken care of, he seemed like he was going to come in and make a big difference.

5-6 years (however many he's been here) later, my opinion of him is changing. Not 'changed' yet but starting to lean to a view of happy with above average play and competing for a cup vs. WINNING one.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe he wants to win, but doesn't have the nerve to make the 'big move'. Part of this is due to lack of depth, but then whom do we blame for that? He has been here 5 years and honestly the depth of this organization is probably as bad as its ever been. Here are my thoughts.

1. He has made some good moves, lets not be one sided, and for those he needs to be commended. Signing the Sedins to decent contracts, Schnieds, Edler, Hamhuis, finding Tanev, Burrows, even Garrison is looking like he's coming around.

2. The team went to the cup and has been winning in the regular season. Erhoff for a bag of pucks was a steal and he was not worth what Buffalo paid, so I give him credit on both the catch and the release.

However, since the cup finals he has made alot of bad moves and now at a time when this team is really at a crossroads, seems like he's happy to stand pat. At a time when you see pittsburgh going after Morrow, rumours on Iginla going there, Boston, Chicago, we say we don't want a winger. MG doesn't want a winger with heart and grit? Size, who can score? Even as a rental? This is where his errors begin.

1. He has incorrectly evaluated the character of his team, and ability to compete in the post season. In 2011 his team got hot at the right time and they had a much grittier mix of players. Moroever, his current players that were on that roster, were playing much harder, like they had something to prove (Kesler, Edler, Bieksa, even Lou).

2. He then felt, because of that play, he needed only to 'tinker' with his lineup. Well last year's exit, how we seem to get manhandled by larger teams should say enough, but he still ignores this, almost delusionally thinking, perhaps due to denial, that his choices were correct and they will come around and compete when its time. This is his fatal flaw.

3. Adding marginal players with big salaries who have not played to those salaries. Booth - size, sped and hands apparently - he's been a bust, lets face it. Overpaid for a 30 goal year and he's shown none of that here. Perhaps its just the wrong system but he doesn't use his size, hasn't scored and doesn't seem to be a threat on the ice.

4. Wasting money on ballard. I love ballard and i think he could be a top 4. But there is no room for him and AV hates him. So why did MG spend 4 ml on a player we didnt need? Better off finding a stay at home tough dman for 2-3 ml who makes few errors and is good with the first pass.

5. Timing of the CoHo deal. No need to flog a dead horse here. I love Kassian but the timing was atrocious.

6. Signing Lu to the monster deal when he KNEW he had a stud in Schnieder. His ability to judge talent should have told him, lets at least hedge. I don't anticipate ever trading the guy but keep some flexibility given I should be able to see Schnieds has potential.

7. Allowing Torres to leave over 750k. We lacked intensity and grit and he lets it walk. Its showing now and will in the playoffs

8. Best for last. A lack of willingess to 'go for it'. With Jerome Iginla available, Vancouver on his list, he comes out and says no wingers. Well why is that? Well 1. We need a center. Well why is that? Well he's failed to create depth at the MOST important position in hockey - that is his fault. In addition we have a plethora of wingers. Too bad they are either all too small to compete in the playoffs or are plugs. Futher, we have a lack of prospect depth, not allowing us to provide the other team with enough incentive to trade with us, without taking a roster player (ie Pitts has incredible depth in their system on D and they haven't had great draft positions either).

Jerome Iginla gives the 2013 Canucks a fighting chance at the cup. He brings heart, a winner's attitude, leadership, 30 real goals, a guy who can play on the pp, a guy who will teach Kesler, Kassian, Edler what it means to compete and want it - but we don't want that?

MG is showing us, he's happy with a team that competes in the regular season, and has an outside chance at the cup if it gets lucky, but isn't willing to go all in. Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, are all trying to go all in and they have younger teams.

What this tells me is MG's strategy is really to be what we call in business - "Stuck in the middle". He won't go for it, but he's not weak enough to rebuild. We're starting to look like San Jose, Calgary of the 2000's and soon Toronto.

One would suggest he has to make a choice, my argument is, his confluence of errors means he already has made his choices and now is paying for them.

To have the Sedins in their prime and not be in a position to challenge for a cup is terrible. They are slowing, we can all see it. Kesler is constantly hurt and an egomaniac so not addressing our issues at center is unbelievable. Kassian is being misused and is really our only player with size AND hands, Luongo and his 5.3 million. are wasted on the bench when at worst he could have brought cap releif and picks we could have used as part of a deadline rental.

MG has scuttled this team due to his own willingess to accept mediocrity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

actually no i dont see where you're going with your logic because if they traded for iginla and bowed out i'd at least have the respect for gillis that he's doing whatever it takes to bring a cup to vancouver vs accepting, 'hey we made the playoffs, maybe if we get lucky we'll win' type attitude.

your comment about me critisizing MG after he makes such a deal is not only arrogant, its patronizing and presumptiuous.

further, as I said, it depends on the price. I don't think giving up Gaunce/Jensen and a first is worth it for a rental.

I ALSO STATED that the reason we CANNOT AFFORD TO MAKE BOLD MOVES is because of a lack of organizational depth

that depth is MG's responsibility and the fact we have none limits our ability to make moves.

again - to explain for the 20th time, his decisions have brought us to this point, this juncture. All the decisions HE HAS MADE IN THE PAST, bring us here.

To a point where we lack organizatinal depth, we can't go after the big fish because it costs too much simply because we don't have much to draw on..

Those are MG's failings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PIttsburgh traded a 1st round pick prospect for Morrow. To some extent, it makes you think that Iginla will cost us at least a 1st round pick and probably 2 of our higher draft picks to obtain him. So at this point, Mike gillis is fighting a unwinnable fight against you.

Your not willing to give up Jensen and a 1st for Iginla, but Gillis is considered fail if he doesn't trade for him?

But it will cost more then Jensen and a 1st for Iginla, but you don't want to give that much for Iginla???

WHAT THE !@#%%$% !!!!!!!!

You see what I mean? You pretty much punched yourself in the nuts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His contract signing, both in re-upping our own guys and in UFAs, has been excellent, but his trades have not worked out well. I think it's probably a good idea if he acts "timid" or as I would put it, "carefully," on the trade front this season. Our prospect/youth would be looking a lot better had we held onto Hodgson and Grabner, tough to argue that point. As a former agent, Gillis' strength is in contract negotiations, and Gilman's is cap management. We've been burned on the trade market the last few seasons, maybe we ought to just stay out of that sort of thing, especially when our younger guys are involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His contract signing, both in re-upping our own guys and in UFAs, has been excellent, but his trades have not worked out well. I think it's probably a good idea if he acts "timid" or as I would put it, "carefully," on the trade front this season. Our prospect/youth would be looking a lot better had we held onto Hodgson and Grabner, tough to argue that point. As a former agent, Gillis' strength is in contract negotiations, and Gilman's is cap management. We've been burned on the trade market the last few seasons, maybe we ought to just stay out of that sort of thing, especially when our younger guys are involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4) Ballard was acquired now almost 3 years ago; good business is to cut your losses earlier. Better business is not to pile another $4.5 million left D on top of your problem.

5) If the Canucks "knew," it explains why a Kassian was acquired instead of a veteran. I suppose you can't expect the GM to tell the press he threw in the towel? But I hated hearing the spin & it was offered (when trade first reported) that Kass could provide "balance" to our line up for the play off's. I posted the day after; "a frackin prospect?" Later on it was about the "future," and when the kitchen got hot it was cuz Hodgson was a snivelling idiot. I digress, as did MG. To the point, we have yet to replace the centre we lost, and evidently still need?

MG has acquired assets like Booth, Garrison and Kassian, re-signed Schneider. They are most certainly still assets. Booth and Garrison offer needed size and skills to the team, but not in the right D, RW or centre positions where we were lacking when they were picked up. Arguably, if we also traded for a play making centre, Booth and several others would have more goals We're stuck with a conflux of players (Raymond, Ballard, perhaps a goalie) who also offer skills but do not adequately fill all the roles the team needs. MG after 5 years is now fully responsible for the cards he has.

If there is no market for those cards, he picked the wrong table. Its been reported that he missed the market in Toronto, apparently also a premium PF before getting Booth and Kassian for example? Mis-reading a market gets CEO's fired. MG will be if we eat Lou's contract.

Getting some MoJo back :bigblush: would solve a lot of problems.

4) ballard was acquired before hamhuis and was the safety valve incase we didnt get him.

5) i think the canucks knew that with keslers injuries last year was going to be a very difficult task to go anywhere.

edit: rest of your post is just drivel. there has been 4-5 trades this year total, there isnt a whole lot on the market.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4) Ballard was acquired now almost 3 years ago; good business is to cut your losses earlier. Better business is not to pile another $4.5 million left D on top of your problem.

5) If the Canucks "knew," it explains why a Kassian was acquired instead of a veteran. I suppose you can't expect the GM to tell the press he threw in the towel? But I hated hearing the spin & it was offered (when trade first reported) that Kass could provide "balance" to our line up for the play off's. I posted the day after; "a frackin prospect?" Later on it was about the "future," and when the kitchen got hot it was cuz Hodgson was a snivelling idiot. I digress, as did MG. To the point, we have yet to replace the centre we lost, and evidently still need?

MG has acquired assets like Booth, Garrison and Kassian, re-signed Schneider. They are most certainly still assets. Booth and Garrison offer needed size and skills to the team, but not in the right D, RW or centre positions where we were lacking when they were picked up. Arguably, if we also traded for a play making centre, Booth and several others would have more goals We're stuck with a conflux of players (Raymond, Ballard, perhaps a goalie) who also offer skills but do not adequately fill all the roles the team needs. MG after 5 years is now fully responsible for the cards he has.

If there is no market for those cards, he picked the wrong table. We should not be excusing him for mis-reading the market.

Getting some MoJo back :bigblush: would solve a lot of problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do not understand the logic here. We have poor organizational depth and our stars are starting to slowly decline, so we should give up what little depth we have in order to land another team's star who is already on the decline? Do I have that right?

That is wacky wacky logic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand it can be frustrating at times, but you can't just demand a trade and get it... Obviously players aren't easy to move or acquire... Especially with long term contracts...

I dont think giving Luongo that contract was a bad move, in hindsight maybe, but remember at the time he was the teams saviour.

You could make a long list of mistakes for any GM in the league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mods, please re-title the thread: MG TRADE FOR IGGY PLEASE!

And no, do not want another frigging winger.

Ive been saying this well before it was reported, that we need a center, or 2.

Id be suprised if MG wanted to go the rental route. He has stated repeatedly that the team are not interested in that course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not expecting any big moves...can't trade injured players.... maybe he'll round up some more college guys perhaps....

but still look at what happened to the team chemistry when kes and booth came back.... hopefully with all the juggling av has done the guys can just settle in when the players get healthy...

if we did get someone like torres perhaps at least he knows the system and could blend in faster....

we have practically ZERO cap space anyhow....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So wait, BtoM, what are you actually suggesting, trade Lu and some roster players for picks and prospects? Or trade the little depth of prospects be picks we have to land a guy like Iggy? I don't get what you're saying here. In my mind, our playoff run will solely depend on goaltending and how much this team wants it. When they're hungry, and motivated to play, they will beat ANY team. Yes, even the dreaded BlackHawks. The Hawks in my mind are no match for our speedy team, and our D and Goaltending is much superior compared to theirs. But again, this is only if we are on our game. If we aren't on our game, it won't matter who we get on TDL. Iginla will not make a difference. This team just needs to heat up and get on a roll at the right time, and I assure you they will make a deep run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

for the people talking about Pitts...remember they were very bad for a long time and able to pick up elite players three yrs in a row......whitney (5th overall---trade for Kunitz and tangradi),fluery(1st overall),malkin(2nd overall),crosby(1st overall) and jordan staal(2nd overall

boy when you draft elite players year after year ...you really dont have to spend crazy to get complementary players........and wit ha few exceptions they have kept their 1st rd picks over the years incl a large number of their 2nd and 3rd picks....so the yare able to have a stable full of picks....+ plus when they trade a whitney (when he was solid) and staal they get top icks or players back.

our stable a few years ago was alot like the Flames now...barren with only a few bright spots...

now with keeping picks and signing some good young college players..we now actually have some depth

didnt help when we drafted horrid for years

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To everyone bashing b2m, he has valid concerns and this thread has turned into a bit of a pissing match. I don't really agree with what he's saying but I see his point.

I believe he is faulting gillis for not having more organizational depth by now. Fair enough, not everyone hits the home runs though. If we had that depth we could match pits right now is basically what he's saying.

Gillis has made bad moves, they all do. Had we not traded hodgson grabner 1st (howden) or had bourdon not been tragically taken from us, things would look much different.

We most likely would not have Raymond though had we kept grabner and a huge plus I will give gillis is his patience in him. Mayray was the better option and were seeing him enter his prime right now. He's got a bit yet till he reaches his ceiling.

The Ballard trade I will not fault him for making, but why trade that big of a package when you knew a week later you were gunning for hamhuis. That was an example of having the itchy trigger finger everyone is screaming for now. He should have waited untill he heard hamhuis decision. If hammy signed elsewhere Ballard would have been groomed into our top 4 and been a good trade.

I will fault him for hanging on to Ballard. We could have made a trade a long time ago and cut our losses.

I see our youth pool as Schroeder Jensen Gaunce Tanev Corrado Weise Lack all can't miss guys 24 or under.

Maybe their unproven status give another a different opinion but that's the way I view them and IMO that is not bad. Not bad but not enough to fork some out and load up this year.

With them in the bank we have other notables that just by averages at least a couple should take the next step to "this guys got what it takes to make it" status.

Connaughton Tommerness Andersson Rodin Mallet Lain Blomstrand Grenier Sauve Archibald McNally

At least 2 or 3 will start showing promise and you could argue connaughton andersson and lain are already showing it.(lain being what the scouts are saying)

Add to that our 2013 first round pick, maybe another draft steal and what we get back in our goalie trade, and our depth pocket is right back up there this time next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So why hasn't he had this effect in Calgary, who sits near the bottom of the pack? If he's going to turn things into gold here, why not there? It isn't some magic deal, whereby he'll click here but hasn't managed to there. If this is what you describe as a "needy/lacklustre" team then what makes you think that he'll be the solution (if he didn't have the impact you're describing where he currently plays?).

And the group here have an off ice chemistry that is undeniable...a brotherhood. So you want to bring "Dad" into the room to keep them all in check? I'm sure that'd go over well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im not suggesting give up the farm. But this is all about how MG has not positioned us to actually go for it. That was my point, perhaps not transparent enough.

But if you look at teams like pitts/chic/boston, not only have they positioned themselves with strong lineups, they have depth. Granted we have injuries but even when healthy we still have holes and lack prospect depth.

When you have holes and lack prospect depth, and have overpaid players, it makes it hard to trade.

If the asking price for Iginla is a first and Jensen of course I say no. But MG has put us in a position where we HAVE no choice to say no, that is my point.

Meanwhile Pitts can say yes...so who's GM is doing a better job?

I think we've been teased by having two superstars in our lineup and great goaltending that has somewhat 'hidden' MG's failings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...