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#31 Common sense

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:36 PM

Always amazing how many people rush to defend the actions of the police. As if only baby killing psychopaths get punched in the face by cops, who also shouldn't be punched in the face while apprehended by the police. Authoritarianism runs deep in conservative veins.


So the police should always be held guilty until proven innocent? I continue to reserve judgement until the full story comes out, including the remaining 7.5 minutes of the video, and quotes of why a punch was thrown.

A cropped-up partial video does not tell the entire story, nor do quotes from only side of the incident.
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#32 Lockout Casualty

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:39 PM

I didn't read anyone defending the punch. I'm reading some people,like myself, wanting to know the whole story. If the guy was sucker punched like the video apparently shows, then the cop should be charged just like anyone else.

Saying that guy deserved to get punched would be defending his actions.


Saying you want to know the whole story implies there may be justification for the action. There cannot be. The action must be looked at on its own merit and not the circumstances leading up to it. As it is, we see a man get punched while apprehended by two peace officers.
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#33 Kass9

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:39 PM

What's the problem. The guy is a mouthy idiot.


Glad you're not a cop.
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#34 nucklehead

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:39 PM

The day that cops only alternatives are to punch people in the face is a sad sorry day.  C'mon, they have other techniques/tactics to use....or at least they should.

They are there to enforce the law, not break it.  Last time I checked, an assault was an assault.


Oh yes, you're right. He could have tazzed him.
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#35 Wetcoaster

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:52 PM

Oh yes, you're right. He could have tazzed him.

And that would also have been an assault.
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#36 nucklehead

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

The point was made that the officer could have emplyed other means. I was hardly serious about that but it seems that something like this gets peoples hackles up more than tazer usage. Seems odd to me. On the other hand it's always advisable to be cooperative when dealing with authorities, or those just trying to help you.
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#37 Grapefruits

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:11 PM

The point was made that the officer could have emplyed other means. I was hardly serious about that but it seems that something like this gets peoples hackles up more than tazer usage. Seems odd to me. On the other hand it's always advisable to be cooperative when dealing with authorities, or those just trying to help you.


Usually a good idea.
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#38 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:16 PM

Strange, I thought the video showed a different story. Right before the cop clocks him you will see that he tries to pull his arm out from behind his back. It was a very quick reaction from the officer and probably not the right one but it was a reaction.

As people have already mentioned, perhaps he already received a verbal warning to stop resisting but the video starts too late to tell. Now if watching Cops has taught me anything it's that this would be the point where the suspect would normally be driven face first into the concrete. This cop chose another tactic, right or wrong.
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#39 debluvscanucks

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:21 PM

So the police should always be held guilty until proven innocent? I continue to reserve judgement until the full story comes out, including the remaining 7.5 minutes of the video, and quotes of why a punch was thrown.

A cropped-up partial video does not tell the entire story, nor do quotes from only side of the incident.


Doesn't matter what else happened....there is no justifying an assault. Period. Cops arrest people who hit other people...what makes them immune from that? Nothing, that's what.

The cops have handcuffs for a reason...put them on the guy and it's a done deal. No need to hit someone.
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#40 Armada

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:24 PM

Good. Guy probably deserved it.
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#41 Wetcoaster

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:31 PM

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Good. Guy probably deserved it.

A person in handcuffs does not "deserve" to be assaulted.

If two police officers cannot control a restrained suspect without delivering a sucker punch regardless of the provocation (and there was none that I could see in any event) they are in the wrong line of work. There are a number of compliance holds that can be used on a subject restrained in handcuffs and not one of them is a sucker punch.
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#42 nucklehead

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:44 PM

He wasn't restrained. He pulled his hand away when the officer tried to cuff him. Watch the video again, you can see his unrestrained arm come up as he pulls it away from the officer as he tries to cuff him. This then required the officer to employ a little playful enticement to encourage just a smidgeon of cooperation from obstinate citizen. Citizen that had been caught in the act breaking several laws.
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#43 Wetcoaster

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:48 PM

He wasn't restrained. He pulled his hand away when the officer tried to cuff him. Watch the video again, you can see his unrestrained arm come up as he pulls it away from the officer as he tries to cuff him. This then required the officer to employ a little playful enticement to encourage just a smidgeon of cooperation from obstinate citizen. Citizen that had been caught in the act breaking several laws.

I've watched and there is nothing there deserving of the punch IMHO. I have arrested and restrained more than my share of people in the past and I never needed to resort to assaulting a prisoner. That is what training is all about.
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#44 nucklehead

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:53 PM

You have police training or citizen ride along arrest training? I think if I was a trained officer and I saw a hand pulling away from me and coming at me I'd react instintively, defaulting to my basic training.

Edited by nucklehead, 27 March 2013 - 10:58 PM.

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#45 Cooker

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:00 PM

Good. Guy probably deserved it.


Wow. Shame that there's a lot of you condoning the actions of a tax-payer paid public servant whose actions were totally out of tune.

Firstly, riding a bike without a helmet, stupid law in the first place. If Canada is a free country we shouldn't be having to ask our government for permission to do simple things, like bike home late at night without a helmet. Just as Americans shouldn't have to ask for permission from their government to marry someone of the same gender.

Then, actually getting arrested for the farce and taking a punch in the face to go with it by those who are supposed to be our defense against such assualts.

You guys are hilarious.
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#46 Common sense

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:06 PM

The cops have handcuffs for a reason...put them on the guy and it's a done deal. No need to hit someone.


And that's why the cop was trying to do while the suspect was squiring around with his left hand. Throw said suspect onto the ground and some of the bleeding hearts will still cry police brutality.

Like I said, this video hardly paints the entire picture.

Edited by Common sense, 27 March 2013 - 11:06 PM.

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#47 trek

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:26 PM

Firstly, riding a bike without a helmet, stupid law in the first place. If Canada is a free country we shouldn't be having to ask our government for permission to do simple things, like bike home late at night without a helmet. Just as Americans shouldn't have to ask for permission from their government to marry someone of the same gender.


So what's your excuse for running a stop sign?
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#48 Cooker

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:43 PM

So what's your excuse for running a stop sign?


Good question. I wouldn't have one because I'd be putting another person's life in danger, not only my own, which is not the case in choosing to wear a helmet or not.
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#49 debluvscanucks

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 11:52 PM

And that's why the cop was trying to do while the suspect was squiring around with his left hand. Throw said suspect onto the ground and some of the bleeding hearts will still cry police brutality.

Like I said, this video hardly paints the entire picture.


Again, doesn't matter what else happened....zero tolerance for police brutality. And if that's the only way this cop can manage the situation, then he clearly needs more training.
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#50 Oliewud

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:04 AM

All cops are looking for is cooperation and respect and this guy didn't show that. Did he deserved to be punched? No. But did he provoke the cop by pulling his hand away? YES! The cop reacted instinctively because it is necessary in their line of work. It's an extremely tough job that requires split second decision making and you guys should be thankful that these guys put their lives on the line everyday, especially considering how many self entitled scum bags there are out there.

Respect the system. We live in a beautiful time right now and it has never been safer.
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#51 Wetcoaster

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:07 AM

You have police training or citizen ride along arrest training? I think if I was a trained officer and I saw a hand pulling away from me and coming at me I'd react instintively, defaulting to my basic training.

You think wrong.
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#52 Wetcoaster

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:10 AM

All cops are looking for is cooperation and respect and this guy didn't show that. Did he deserved to be punched? No. But did he provoke the cop by pulling his hand away? YES! The cop reacted instinctively because it is necessary in their line of work. It's an extremely tough job that requires split second decision making and you guys should be thankful that these guys put their lives on the line everyday, especially considering how many self entitled scum bags there are out there.

Respect the system. We live in a beautiful time right now and it has never been safer.

That is not the training police officers receive.

And we are talking here about a guy on a bicycle, not some person committing a criminal offence.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#53 Mr.DirtyDangles

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:13 AM

o.O


Edited by Mr.DirtyDangles, 17 March 2014 - 01:15 AM.

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#54 DonLever

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:32 AM

We don't see what happened BEFORE the punch. What did the suspect do or say before the video was taken? The punch may be taken out of context.

Everyone say the police should be careful with their actions but things change when a tense situation like this arises. There is an adrenaline rush that causes people to lose control, no matter what training they have.

Perhaps people who criticize the police should follow in their footsteps.
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#55 Lancaster

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:06 AM

The cops was holding his arm behind his back, that's basically the most physically dominant position you can take when restraining someone.

Unless the guy was some MMA pro, there was no way he posed a threat.
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#56 mpt

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 02:34 AM

You don't get handcuffed for running a redlight on a bike. There is much more to the story than what is shown. I bet he mouthed off to the police, the victim is full of crap, "my arms don't bend that way"; yet he's sitting there with his hands behind his back. I'm tired of criminals acting like victims. Its simple, respect the law, respect the enforcers of the law and you wont get punched. Easy lesson to learn.

Edited by mpt, 28 March 2013 - 02:36 AM.

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#57 Wetcoaster

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:59 AM

We don't see what happened BEFORE the punch. What did the suspect do or say before the video was taken? The punch may be taken out of context.

Everyone say the police should be careful with their actions but things change when a tense situation like this arises. There is an adrenaline rush that causes people to lose control, no matter what training they have.

Perhaps people who criticize the police should follow in their footsteps.

I have not only followed in their footsteps, I have been in their shoes and there was no excuse for a sucker punch in those circumstances IMHO.

That is not one of the compliance techniques taught to VPD officers.

And as far as arrest technique that officer would get a fail. The first thing you are taught when handcuffing a suspect is to place the suspect off-balance while remaining balanced yourself. This is Restraint 101.

You instruct a suspect to take a wider than shoulder width stance, put the hands behind his/her back, palms out and thumbs up and have the suspect pull his/her shoulders back slightly towards you so that the suspect's shoulders are not in line with the hips and the weight is on transferred to the heels. Once the suspect is leaning back you have control.

Oh yeah and the stuff you see on TV having a suspect lean against a wall or car, nope... all you are doing is giving a suspect leverage to use against you. Another poor technique is to cuff a suspect who has his hands behind his head because with one quick movement by the suspect you are open to an elbow strike from either side.

Here is a report from the Vancouver Province on the incident.


A police officer is now on leave after he allegedly punched a man in the face during an arrest that was caught on video. Vancouver police have since launched an investigation into the matter.


Andishae Akhavan, 28, had just left a friend’s house and was headed home to Yaletown around 10:30 p.m. Tuesday when an undercover VPD cruiser pulled up to him at the southbound corner of Beatty and Smithe. The two officers alleged he’d run a red light a few blocks earlier and told him they planned to issue him a ticket. Akhavan believes the intersection in question was the three-way stop on Beatty in front of the Terry Fox Memorial.


“They pulled up and talked to me ... and then decided to give me a ticket because I guess I didn’t say what they wanted me to say,” Akhavan told The Province.


He admits telling the two officers: “Don’t you have anything better to do? I’m only a block away from home” right before they exited the cruiser.


The Yaletown resident, who wasn’t wearing a helmet, said he was sober adding “there’s no way” he could have expected what happened next while he was being put in cuffs.


Akhavan said he was turning to speak to the arresting officer but instead, alleges he received a swift punch to the face.


The arrest was captured on video by Mike Schwarz, a friend of Akhavan’s who was driving by at the time.


“As I was at the light, I turned and recognized my friend. He was surrounded by two officers in fairly aggressive stances,” Schwarz told The Province, noting he then parked his car to check on his friend.


As Schwarz neared Akhavan on the northwest corner of Beatty and Smithe, the two officers began putting the man in cuffs. Schwarz pulled out his iPhone and hit the record button.


The video shows Akhavan asking a plain clothes officer, “What is this for?” The officer’s response is inaudible on the video but Akhavan can be seen moving his left arm to his side.


Suddenly, the man standing behind Akhavan reaches around with his left fist and strikes Akhavan’s left cheek.


“The officer didn’t see me. Within four seconds (of pushing record), he punched him in the face,” Schwarz said. He believes the officer, identified by Schwarz as “Officer Bhabha,” was unhappy with how Akhavan moved his arm while turning during the arrest.


“You can see his arms flinch but he’s never been arrested before. He didn’t know he was supposed to be perfectly limp,” he noted.


Akhavan was released an hour later on a promise to appear pending charge approval. He says he was issued a $170 ticket for running a red light on his bike. He said he was left with cuts on the inside and outside of his lip, and that his jaw and neck have been sore since being hit.


On Wednesday afternoon, Schwarz posted the video to Facebook where it has since been shared nearly 2,500 times, and amassed almost 1,200 comments.


Sgt. Randy Fincham confirmed the incident was reported by the officer to his supervisor shortly after, and that an investigation has been launched.


“The incident has also been reported to the Professional Standards Section of the Vancouver Police Department who will in turn notify the Office of the Police Complaints Commissioner,” Fincham said in an email. “The officer is currently on weekly leave.”


Akhavan is considering talking to a lawyer.


“Fine, give me a ticket. But don’t punch me in the face,” Akhavan said, adding that while he has been pulled over before for not wearing a bike helmet, such stops have never escalated to a physical arrest.


“As mad or as hurt as I was, with blood dripping down, it was just a bit of a mix-up for no good reason.”

http://www.theprovince.com/Cyclist+alleges+being+punched+good+reason+Vancouver+police+arrest+caught+video+Video/8162072/story.html#ixzz2OpyV0QPW
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#58 nucklehead

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:51 AM

... we are talking here about a guy on a bicycle, not some person committing a criminal offence.

So this means he's not capable of violent behavior? IMHO he WAS resisting and his actions COULD be construed as threatening. I'd much sooner the officer react in self defense than end up dead.
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#59 Wetcoaster

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:53 AM

So this means he's not capable of violent behavior? IMHO he WAS resisting and his actions COULD be construed as threatening. I'd much sooner the officer react in self defense than end up dead.

Nothing in that video suggests violent behaviour nor a threat.
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#60 debluvscanucks

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:04 AM

All cops are looking for is cooperation and respect and this guy didn't show that. Did he deserved to be punched? No. But did he provoke the cop by pulling his hand away? YES! The cop reacted instinctively because it is necessary in their line of work. It's an extremely tough job that requires split second decision making and you guys should be thankful that these guys put their lives on the line everyday, especially considering how many self entitled scum bags there are out there.

Respect the system. We live in a beautiful time right now and it has never been safer.


No one isn't thankful for cops that do their jobs. It does not, however, give a free pass for some to get it wrong. "All cops are looking for is cooperation and respect"....police shouldn't be looking for anything but suspects - they're on the job and emotion and ego shouldn't come into play. They are supposed to diffuse situations, not escalate them. Having people bow down to them has no place in that. Do you know how you get most people to comply with you?....you treat THEM with respect and dignity...it's a two way street. Attitude shouldn't be part of this from ANY side, not just the person being arrested. This cop is the one who didn't respect the system.

We don't see what happened BEFORE the punch. What did the suspect do or say before the video was taken? The punch may be taken out of context.

Everyone say the police should be careful with their actions but things change when a tense situation like this arises. There is an adrenaline rush that causes people to lose control, no matter what training they have.

Perhaps people who criticize the police should follow in their footsteps.


You're missing the point....it doesn't MATTER what was done/said, it's the cop's responsibility to address it within the boundaries of the law, not stray outside it in using violence. Physical force is one thing, boxing is another. The "adrenaline rush" and losing control is not a legitimiate reason, it's actually cause for concern.
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