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#151 Papayas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:58 AM

holy crap, the team's whole second line was gone for almost a full season, and here we are having seriously discussion about why AV isn't coaching the team to play exciting hockey?

you can have your own opinion Joe, just try not to preach them as facts and how you know more about how the whole team is playing than the Canucks' staffs including the GM.

EVEN if AV deserves to be fire, it WILL NOT be in the middle of the season when the team is on a winning streak.

hating our coach is one thing, suggesting to fire him in the middle of the season when the team is still in the playoff run with the second line down is just simply retarded.
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#152 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:03 AM

It is like 2006-2007 all over again.
I actually enjoy watching good goal tending.
When I shake my head too hard it hurts and then I can't watch the great Canucks goal tending.


I'd rather watch an opposing hockey play amazing hockey while the team I cheer for puts up amazing scoring chances.

The hockey we are watching is not enjoyable.
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#153 Papayas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:07 AM

I'd rather watch an opposing hockey play amazing hockey while the team I cheer for puts up amazing scoring chances.

The hockey we are watching is not enjoyable.


it sounds like you are trying to throw our coach under the bus because you don't find our style enjoyable. Then you try to use some ridiculous reasons to sugarcoat that and pretend you want him fire for the sake of the team's performance....
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#154 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:12 AM

holy crap, the team's whole second line was gone for almost a full season, and here we are having seriously discussion about why AV isn't coaching the team to play exciting hockey?

you can have your own opinion Joe, just try not to preach them as facts and how you know more about how the whole team is playing than the Canucks' staffs including the GM.

EVEN if AV deserves to be fire, it WILL NOT be in the middle of the season when the team is on a winning streak.

hating our coach is one thing, suggesting to fire him in the middle of the season when the team is still in the playoff run with the second line down is just simply retarded.


But apparently I'm not allowed to post stuff like this when we are losing because suddenly that makes me a bandwagoner who only comes out of his cave with the rest of my followers when people feel like hitting the panic button.

I'm also not allowed to post this in the off-season, because everybody gets "a clean slate" and "one more chance" in the off-season.

So now I'm not allowed to post this when we are winning? And not during the season?

Sorry, but no dice. Quite frankly, I don't care if I piss people off. All I want is for people to acknowledge that the team is still playing like crap even though the goalies are bailing us out. It's been all season long. This team has only played a good team game two or three times this year; and even at that, not in one single game have they played a full 60 minutes in which they out-played and out-worked the opposition. The Canucks collectively don't feel like playing a full game of hockey, and this is a trend that started down the stretch of last year. It carried into the play-offs, and it bit us in the ass.

With the injured line-up, the Canucks are supposed to grind out wins. But they are only grinding for 20-40 minutes a game. Grinding out wins includes a forecheck. Grinding out wins includes hitting the crap out of the opposing team to wear them out throughout the game. If you can't win with skill because of injuries to key players, then you have to play physical effort-driven hockey. The Canucks have not put in 60 minutes of effort once all season long, or back to last year through the stretch.

And when a problem like this hits the team as a collective for this long, it falls directly on the coach. I'm not whining about a few games here and there. It's been too damned long!
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#155 Razors_Edge

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:12 AM

I'd rather watch an opposing hockey play amazing hockey while the team I cheer for puts up amazing scoring chances.

The hockey we are watching is not enjoyable.

Lol AV isn't here to make enjoyable hockey for you. His job is to win games. He is a defensive minded Coach and this season with a decimated team he is keeping us at the top of the league. There are 24 other teams that wish their coach was that good. I am guessing you have never coached a game in your life or played in one.
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#156 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:15 AM

it sounds like you are trying to throw our coach under the bus because you don't find our style enjoyable. Then you try to use some ridiculous reasons to sugarcoat that and pretend you want him fire for the sake of the team's performance....


You've got it wrong.

I'm throwing the coach under the bus because he is driving a bus full of players who he can't seem to get to play a full 60 minutes of hockey in a single game for well over a year. The coach damned well is dragging down the performance of this team.
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#157 Papayas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:20 AM

You've got it wrong.

I'm throwing the coach under the bus because he is driving a bus full of players who he can't seem to get to play a full 60 minutes of hockey in a single game for well over a year. The coach damned well is dragging down the performance of this team.


This is why I am saying you are making up some ridiculous statment to sugarcoat your opinion to fire the coach for your own entertainment value.

Remember, the team that "can't play 60 minutes of hockey" is an opinion. While you are entitle to yours, dont try to preach it as facts.

Teams have their ups and downs AND the momentum in a game will shift constantly between the two teams on ice. NO team can play the so call "full 60 minutes of hockey" like you suggested every night because hockey players aren't a bunch of computer codes in NHL13.
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#158 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:21 AM

Lol AV isn't here to make enjoyable hockey for you. His job is to win games. He is a defensive minded Coach and this season with a decimated team he is keeping us at the top of the league. There are 24 other teams that wish their coach was that good. I am guessing you have never coached a game in your life or played in one.


Not that "enjoyable" hockey is the entire purpose of this thread. But if you want to pick out one thing from my content and throw the rest to the curb in order to "LOL" at something I have to say, that just makes you look stupid. The reason it is not enjoyable is because of the lack of effort.

I'm not raging on about how the enjoyment I get from watching the games. The point I am making is that AV's coaching is not preparing this team for any sort of success come play-off time.

The responses in this thread make me sick. Using injuries as an excuse is unacceptable. With the injuries we've seen, the team should be trying even harder. I still see a lack of effort.
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#159 Razors_Edge

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:22 AM

Quite frankly, I don't care if I piss people off. All I want is for people to acknowledge that the team is still playing like crap even though the goalies are bailing us out. It's been all season long. This team has only played a good team game two or three times this year; and even at that, not in one single game have they played a full 60 minutes in which they out-played and out-worked the opposition.

We are obviously watching different teams. The one I am watching has been the PT winner two years in a row, now with a decimated roster they are still 6th in the league. There are 24 other teams that wish they were as good as us. Can we get better sure just wait till some of our guys get back. In the meantime, we should form an all hail AV fan club and get down and kiss the ground he walks on. Without him we are 29th or 30th. Go Canucks!
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#160 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:24 AM

This is why I am saying you are making up some ridiculous statment to sugarcoat your opinion to fire the coach for your own entertainment value.

Remember, the team that "can't play 60 minutes of hockey" is an opinion. While you are entitle to yours, dont try to preach it as facts.

Teams have their ups and downs AND the momentum in a game will shift constantly between the two teams on ice. NO team can play the so call "full 60 minutes of hockey" like you suggested every night because hockey players aren't a bunch of computer codes in NHL13.


When I say "playing a full 60 minutes", I don't mean 60 minutes of straight domination. That's just ridiculous. I mean they don't put in nearly enough effort. You can very clearly see in any given game when the Canucks as a whole decide "well, that's enough. Let's just sit on it now..."

They just happen to be lucky enough at the moment to not have it bite them in the ass on a regular basis because our goalie, once again, is bailing out the team and, ultimately, the coach.
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#161 TheTruthHurts

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:28 AM

Never ever ever ever ever start an argument that sets out to show that you are "right" and then using you are "right" as the reason why.
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#162 Papayas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:29 AM

When I say "playing a full 60 minutes", I don't mean 60 minutes of straight domination. That's just ridiculous. I mean they don't put in nearly enough effort. You can very clearly see in any given game when the Canucks as a whole decide "well, that's enough. Let's just sit on it now..."

They just happen to be lucky enough at the moment to not have it bite them in the ass on a regular basis because our goalie, once again, is bailing out the team and, ultimately, the coach.


again, that's your opinions, not facts.

you know what the fact is? every team will sit on a lead most of the time, and they would rarely be as aggressive as when they are behind or even.

our goalie didn't bail us out most of the time, they are just doing their job as a good goalie in the last 4-5 seasons.
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#163 ilduce39

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:34 AM

Can I just point out to the people who are saying "Canucks are only winning because of Schneider" that this is more of a reflection of the makeup of the team rather than coaching?

Back in the early to mid 2000s, despite one of the best lines in hockey our defense and goalies sucked. As a fanbase we cried, "Build from the net out!" and lo, our general managers did listen.

With that in mind, I won't beebop overmuch about the circumstances of this particular season, but our winning games by a small margin and due to solid goaltending and a defensive philosophy are because a ton of our salary cap is being spent on goaltending and defense.

Look at our forwards, with Kesler, Booth and Malhotra all out: besides the Sedins we have Burrows, Raymond, Higgins, Hansen, Schroeder and Lappiere as players making at least 1.0 million dollars this season. Everyone else is making damn-near league minimum and by no fault of their own... playing like it.

So when we say "we are only winning because of our goaltending" we are actually saying "our team is winning exactly the way it is designed to win."

Edited by ilduce39, 30 March 2013 - 01:35 AM.

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#164 SamJamIam

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:37 AM

Not that "enjoyable" hockey is the entire purpose of this thread. But if you want to pick out one thing from my content and throw the rest to the curb in order to "LOL" at something I have to say, that just makes you look stupid. The reason it is not enjoyable is because of the lack of effort.

I'm not raging on about how the enjoyment I get from watching the games. The point I am making is that AV's coaching is not preparing this team for any sort of success come play-off time.

The responses in this thread make me sick. Using injuries as an excuse is unacceptable. With the injuries we've seen, the team should be trying even harder. I still see a lack of effort.


Why has the Canucks organization not approached you to pay a tidy sum in return for your counsel? :bigblush:
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#165 SamJamIam

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:39 AM

Never ever ever ever ever start an argument that sets out to show that you are "right" and then using you are "right" as the reason why.


Well said. This chump just has no eye for the game.
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#166 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:40 AM

We are obviously watching different teams. The one I am watching has been the PT winner two years in a row, now with a decimated roster they are still 6th in the league. There are 24 other teams that wish they were as good as us. Can we get better sure just wait till some of our guys get back. In the meantime, we should form an all hail AV fan club and get down and kiss the ground he walks on. Without him we are 29th or 30th. Go Canucks!


Oh here we go. This pretty much epitomizes the redundant stupidity that encompasses the very limited content that is worth reading on these forums. Let's walk through is step by step, so we can all bask in the very reason why discussions like these never get anywhere:

"We are obviously watching different teams"
A classic form of condescension that ultimately backfires as so too could this be said by the recipient of the mindless drivel that you post.

"The one I am watching has been the PT winner two years in a row..."
The first of which was AV's only deep cup run during his entire tenure here, in spite of the fact that that many more than once has he had the privilege to coach a fantastic line-up that, in the end, never lived up to expectations.

The second of which was a year in which the second (and more important) half entailed nothing but hockey that was identical to the way it is now -- with a less decimated line-up -- that ultimately led to a lack of preparation for the play-offs.

"...now with a decimated roster they are still 6th in the league."
Injures are not an excuse for the lack of effort this team has put forward for over a year.

"Can we get better sure just wait till some of our guys get back."
It's not going to switch like a light-bulb. In the meantime, the Canucks should be putting in more effort to make up for the lackluster line-up. More forechecking, and better puck possession. Dumping the puck and giving up the possession is not a good game-plan. If you don't wan't to go high-octane offense because of the line-up, at least keep the puck in possession. There is no reason not to grab it and pass back to regroup. Stop giving the puck away!

"... we should form an all hail AV fan club and get down and kiss the ground he walks on."
This pretty much explains where you have been, rather than watching the games and taking the time to think about why AV is a bad coach, rather than looking at roster and score sheets and digging as deep as you can to find excuse after excuse for why the team you supposedly watch is under-performing.
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#167 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:43 AM

Never ever ever ever ever start an argument that sets out to show that you are "right" and then using you are "right" as the reason why.


My post goes on a little bit longer than the first two sentences. There's a little more dispersed within the thread, but your failure to read the first post of the thread leads me to believe that there is no way in hell you'll be delving any deeper.

Basically, there's really no place for somebody with such little depth in the way you think to be in a thread like this. To find content worth reading, you'll have to actually look for it, because it is immersed in a lot of mindless drivel and repetition from either side of the argument.
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#168 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:49 AM

again, that's your opinions, not facts.

you know what the fact is? every team will sit on a lead most of the time, and they would rarely be as aggressive as when they are behind or even.

our goalie didn't bail us out most of the time, they are just doing their job as a good goalie in the last 4-5 seasons.


A goalie's job is to be steady and reliable, and to steal games once in a while. A good goalie is expected to be steadily and reliably good, and steal a few more games.

My issue stems from the fact that way too many of our wins have come from the expectation that our goalie will stand on his head. Our team has failed to bail our goalie out of more than one bad game this year, and that was against Nashville.

This team relies way too heavily on the goalie. The fact that our roster dictates this is all well and good, but the level of effort they put in to mitigate this is insufficient.

If Schneider were to be playing the way our goalies did during our slump, this forum would be drowned so deep in a well of sorrow that it would have been a completely pathetic sight to see. But because one player is absolutely standing on his head, the coach is completely bailed out.

It's quite embarrassing to see professional athletes hang each other out to dry like that.
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#169 Razors_Edge

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:56 AM

Oh here we go. This pretty much epitomizes the redundant stupidity that encompasses the very limited content that is worth reading on these forums. Let's walk through is step by step, so we can all bask in the very reason why discussions like these never get anywhere:

I have been a Canuck fan since the team was formed. Sat through endless seasons where we never had a hope of getting into the playoffs. I don't think you have any idea of how lucky we are to have the team we do now or the coach we do now. I feel the players are working their butts off and keeping us at the top of the league. You sound a lot like a very unhappy person in life and it shows. Cheer up Joe, for what we have this season the team is fine the coach is great, I think we have one of our best shots at Stanley other years we had some injury problems if we get to the post season and this lineup is healthy Stanley belongs to us. Go Canucks!
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#170 Papayas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:58 AM

A goalie's job is to be steady and reliable, and to steal games once in a while. A good goalie is expected to be steadily and reliably good, and steal a few more games.

My issue stems from the fact that way too many of our wins have come from the expectation that our goalie will stand on his head. Our team has failed to bail our goalie out of more than one bad game this year, and that was against Nashville.

This team relies way too heavily on the goalie. The fact that our roster dictates this is all well and good, but the level of effort they put in to mitigate this is insufficient.

If Schneider were to be playing the way our goalies did during our slump, this forum would be drowned so deep in a well of sorrow that it would have been a completely pathetic sight to see. But because one player is absolutely standing on his head, the coach is completely bailed out.

It's quite embarrassing to see professional athletes hang each other out to dry like that.


I can't remember how many times did people repeat this to you, but let me bold this out for you in case you forget about this fact again

our whole second line is down to the point where we need to use our defenseman as forward

when a team gets into a situtation like this, it is expected that our goalie will need to steal more game than usual. This is logic or common sense depends on what you want to call that.

This still doesn't change that fact that you are judging how good our coach is base on your opinion on the entertainment value of the team rather than results.
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#171 Razors_Edge

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:01 AM

Oh Yeah and Joe just so you understand, a fan is someone who supports their team, not someone who constantly picks their team apart. I am a loyal fan as are most people here! Go Canucks!
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#172 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:08 AM

I can't remember how many times did people repeat this to you, but let me bold this out for you in case you forget about this fact again

our whole second line is down to the point where we need to use our defenseman as forward

when a team gets into a situtation like this, it is expected that our goalie will need to steal more game than usual. This is logic or common sense depends on what you want to call that.

This still doesn't change that fact that you are judging how good our coach is base on your opinion on the entertainment value of the team rather than results.


You are clearly not reading my posts. I have read every single post in this thread, some twice.

The team hasn't just leaned on the goalies for the duration of our injury bug. Earlier in the season, the injuries weren't that bad, but the team was still playing crap hockey while the goalies got it done.

I am NOT judging the team based on entertainment value. I made that comment because someone else commented on what they considered entertaining. GET OFF OF IT.

Read some damned responses, and quit responding to the fact that I disagree with you.

If you think that everything I say is a matter of opinion, rather than some of it being opinion and some fact, then there will never be any getting through to you. All you are saying is "lalala I'm not listening!". I could do without. Don't expect any more response from me until I see that you've read some of my posts and actually see what I am saying, rather than trying to put words in my mouth and derail the thread and go on about my OPINIONS ON ENTERTAINMET, WHICH IS NOT WHAT THE DISCUSSION IS ABOUT.
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#173 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:10 AM

Oh Yeah and Joe just so you understand, a fan is someone who supports their team, not someone who constantly picks their team apart. I am a loyal fan as are most people here! Go Canucks!


I'm not picking the team apart. I'm a fan of the team. I'm not a fan of the coach. I'm picking at the coach because I don't like how he coaches the team I love and cheer for, because he's been coasting on this awesome line-up for too damned long.
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#174 Razors_Edge

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:13 AM

I'm not picking the team apart. I'm a fan of the team. I'm not a fan of the coach. I'm picking at the coach because I don't like how he coaches the team I love and cheer for, because he's been coasting on this awesome line-up for too damned long.

I dunno Joe here we are without a second line winning games. Not many coaches could pull that off in todays NHL. Cheer up Joe. Go Canucks!
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#175 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:22 AM

I dunno Joe here we are without a second line winning games. Not many coaches could pull that off in todays NHL. Cheer up Joe. Go Canucks!


I am cheer. Don't worry about me, ol' timer. Just wait until our team comes back together, like it did earlier this season. You just wait and see that our piss-poor hockey will continue even with a fully healthy line-up.

And you just wait for the truckload of excuses this off-season after we are inevitably eliminated from the playoffs in the first or -- if our goaltending (from whoever it may be) steals a series -- second round.

You just wait and see, and you'll see that I was right; and I wont be here to rub it in your face because I'll still be happy when this forgettable season is over because I wont have gotten my expectations so high. I'll be out enjoying my summer while you guys sit here on the forums a throw your excuses for unfulfilled expectations at one-another.

Edited by Joe_Shmo, 30 March 2013 - 02:24 AM.

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#176 Razors_Edge

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:35 AM

I am cheer. Don't worry about me, ol' timer. Just wait until our team comes back together, like it did earlier this season. You just wait and see that our piss-poor hockey will continue even with a fully healthy line-up.

And you just wait for the truckload of excuses this off-season after we are inevitably eliminated from the playoffs in the first or -- if our goaltending (from whoever it may be) steals a series -- second round.

You just wait and see, and you'll see that I was right; and I wont be here to rub it in your face because I'll still be happy when this forgettable season is over because I wont have gotten my expectations so high. I'll be out enjoying my summer while you guys sit here on the forums a throw your excuses for unfulfilled expectations at one-another.

Wow Joe you say you are a fan but you really don't sound like one, you have already given up all hope on the season. This group of Canucks and the coach are the best we have ever had. There are 30 teams out there trying to be better than us, there is no automatic way to ensure success but we have a legitimate chance and us fans are still waving our flags. I wish we could have got Iginla but that's not AV's fault! Go Canucks!
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I am as confused as a baby in a topless bar!  :)


#177 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:45 AM

Wow Joe you say you are a fan but you really don't sound like one, you have already given up all hope on the season. This group of Canucks and the coach are the best we have ever had. There are 30 teams out there trying to be better than us, there is no automatic way to ensure success but we have a legitimate chance and us fans are still waving our flags. I wish we could have got Iginla but that's not AV's fault! Go Canucks!


I wrote off this season because I am seeing the exact same trends as I did last year at the exact same time, and there has been no changes at all to what the real problem is.

Is there some wild fluke chance that the Canucks will win a cup on the back of Luongo/Schneider? Sure. I'm just not counting on it, because that would be silly and juvenile.

When it's a brief stint of the team playing the way it has been, that's one thing. But after a year and a half, then you really have to start looking at the coach.
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Hey CDC! Remember this!?

http://forum.canucks...in-this-change/

#178 SamJamIam

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:48 AM

I wrote off this season because I am seeing the exact same trends as I did last year at the exact same time, and there has been no changes at all to what the real problem is.

Is there some wild fluke chance that the Canucks will win a cup on the back of Luongo/Schneider? Sure. I'm just not counting on it, because that would be silly and juvenile.

When it's a brief stint of the team playing the way it has been, that's one thing. But after a year and a half, then you really have to start looking at the coach.


People see trends out of nothing. Shapes in clouds and constellations. Figures in the shadows. It's what people do. Give me numbers or these trends are clearly just based in an ability to find a trend in anything
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#179 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:10 AM

Saying he was out-coached is also quite convenient. How was he out-coached? What adjustments did the other coach make that AV couldn't counter? You'll have to be specific on these set plays that AV couldn't counter. If you can't answer those question you don't know that he was in fact out-coached. No amount of coaching will heal injured players or solve the players inevitable scoring slumps, nor prevent the players themselves from making mistakes including the goalie. No matter how well you strategize it still requires the players to execute. A great deal of what happens between face-offs is up to the players to recognize and react. The coach can't do that for them. And the talent on the other side also has the ability to recognize and react as well.



If you want to see a complete dismantling of AV as a coach, watch the 1st round series against Chicago in 2011. Watch really closely at what won the Canucks the first 3 games and along the way watch the adjustments that the Hawks coaching staff made along the way.

Hell, watch any of the last 3 series against Chicago, the finals against Boston, and last year against LA. The other coaches did two things that AV did not do....

1. identified weaknesses to exploit on the other team
2. actually put a plan in place that could realistically be expected to exploit them.

AV focuses too much on the team playing "his" style. There is no room for adaptation at all so they just keep playing the same way and hope it eventually works. Any exec, coach, or player on the Canucks will regularly admit this to the media. We hear it after every game.

"I thought the guys played real well and competed hard."

The funny thing is, even when they get dominated for 55 minutes of a game being outhustled to loose pucks and losing puck battles the coach still says the same thing......."we played our game but we did not get the result we wanted."

The real obvious question to me is this............Is their game REALLY to play 5-10 minutes of good aggressive hockey and 50-55 minutes of complete garbage hockey where they look like a midget team against NHL'ers and rely on their goalie to be perfect?

If so, fire the coaches now because that is how this team plays a vast majority of the time the last year and a half. And blame the players all you want, that comes from coaching. They look scared to lose and so does AV.

Edited by wallstreetamigo, 30 March 2013 - 03:11 AM.

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#180 Kryten

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:46 AM

Oh Yeah and Joe just so you understand, a fan is someone who supports their team, not someone who constantly picks their team apart. I am a loyal fan as are most people here! Go Canucks!


Incorrect. A fan is someone who wants their team to do well, hopefully while playing a game style they appreciate. This often leads the more intense or involved fan to discuss scenarios (positive or negative) with other passionate "fans". Who wants to discuss a teams ups and downs with a person who never sees the downs because they are a mindless cheerleader? Claiming that being critical of a team is disloyal is being truly unenlightened of what it means to be a fan of hockey (especially on a hockey forum).
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