forklift_ole Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 You can't complain about lack of prospects on one hand, and on the other suggest trading away picks and prospects for rentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck or Die Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I have a better idea. How about you fools who keep saying we should be "all in" shut up and start thinking about our future? Why the hell should we give away what little we have in prospects just to go all in during a garbage year? If anything, we should probably start stocking up and picks and prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SealTheDeal Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I can't believe how many people on CDC, and even the number of commentators and insiders I see on TV, who just seem to have no sense of perspective at all when it comes to evaluating the position of a franchise and what they should be doing. If we went back in time to the draft, the Rangers were the new "it" team who were doing everything right - they had a rough playoffs, so why not go "all in" and get that big scoring winger. Enter Nash. Where are they now? Fighting with the Islanders for 8th in the East. How about this - a bit further back - another "powerhouse" franchise. The Flyers trade away Carter and Richards. Early results appear fantastic. Claude Giroux was considered to be on par with Crosby, and possibly might surpass him. We get to the playoffs and who hoists the cup. . . Carter and Richards. Where are they now? Anyone interested in Simon Gagne? Lets look at this year. Who among Canadian teams is expected to be the team that takes the league by the throat, bolstered by a bevy of awe-inspiring youg talent. They even played together throughout the lock-out, gaining the advantage of readiness and familiarity. Where are they now? Handing out 6 mill a year contracts to every forward on their team not named Gagne (who has the best numbers btw). When you look at the Canucks, their roster, their prospects, their options, etc. . . can everyone PLEASE take off their idiot-glasses and compare them carefully to other franchises and look honestly at what those franchises have been through? Up until this year everyone would point at the Red Wings - apparently the clear model that every team should emulate. Just have savvy drafting, slow development, and voila - eternal contenders making runs every year. But wait. . . now that their hall-of-famer has finally hung up his skates, Ken Holland gives his own team a 50% chance of making the playoffs. Apparently pulling elite 1st liners out of the 5th and 6th round isn't actually all that easy. No one on CDC or elsewhere is talking about the Canucks folowing the Red Wings now. Now it is all Pittsburg, all the time. Seize the day, be like Pittsburg!!! Well, let's see what Pittsburg did last year to get themselves into their current position. . . clearly they saw the writing on the wall, the window is closing right?!?! Clearly they should keep all of their top talent at all costs, right??!?!? Actually, they trade away Jordan Stall for picks and prospects. Jordan Staal is a pretty good player. In fact, many would say he is a rising elite player, while their current acquisitions are all in decline. Now, bolstered by a 12+ game win streak without Malkin in the llineup, sitting uncontested at the top of the Eastern conference, and sensing weakness in teams that they have traditionally had trouble with (NYR, Philly), they decide to roll the dice with some rentals. But what have they really paid? A few second rounders? Some college players? A 1st rounder in the 25+ range? Let me tell you, if the Canucks were on a 14 game win streak and sitting on top of the league with Kesler and Booth out, both were likely to be back any day, and Iginla wanted to come to Vancouver and the price was what Pittsburg payed, and we had the cap room, he would have done it. But that is not the position we are in. The problem is not that we haven't traded Luongo. The problem is not that Booth and Ballard haven't really played up to expectations. The problem is not that we have a bad coach or lack good players on our team. Being a GM is about making the best moves you can, out of the moves that are available, to maximise your returns and minimize your losses. Iginla wanted to go to Pittsburg - that's why Boston didn't get him. It wasn't an available move for MG, anymore that signing Shea Weber, Zach Parise, or Ryan Suter in the offseason. People who QQ anbout such things don't understand anything about being a GM at all. Similarly, you don't deal away Luongo now for a 2nd rounder, or Bozak, as some pundits have suggested on HNIC. A 1B goalie who can step in and play if you get an injury to Schneider, or he struggles, is worth more to the team now than those things. The cap space is already available if you put Booth on LTIR, trading Luongo for cap space makes no sense. Those would be stupid moves for MG. MG, like all smart GMs has a value in mind for each of his players. If he can trade them for greater than that value, he pulls the trigger, if he can't get that value, he doesn't trade. If he doesn't make a trade at the deadline, it is because he has evaluated the potential value (and associated risks) and found that it just wasn't there. Please, before you make bold statements about what MG should do, look at the situations of other franchises in the league and get a little perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SealTheDeal Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 You can't complain about lack of prospects on one hand, and on the other suggest trading away picks and prospects for rentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyzer Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Yeah I'm pretty sure we can get Toews, Alfredsson, and Rick Nash for Alberts, Luongo, and Raymond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck hero Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 gillis believes their best chance at a cup is with both goalies and a shortened season you can't just thrown in the towel yet. canucks are nothing like the flames who should by all counts be in a rebuild mode.....gillis will be cautious and if its not going to cost the canucks too much then he will make a trade... luongo will be back here next year and the year after no matter how fast the canucks get knocked out of the playoffs. no one wants luongo contract....hence why he isn't traded yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magician Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 "nothing in the way of good prospect" i hear jordan schroeder is pretty good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frazzY Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Its very obvious that every fickle canuck fan on here (and overall) is starting to wear impatient with MG. I am glad our GM doesnt have the same mindset, so all you haters can hate... MG's job is as safe as Aquilini's, so just suck it up and support your team! I highly doubt u haters could run a lemonade stand let alone manage an NHL franchise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frazzY Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I can't believe how many people on CDC, and even the number of commentators and insiders I see on TV, who just seem to have no sense of perspective at all when it comes to evaluating the position of a franchise and what they should be doing. If we went back in time to the draft, the Rangers were the new "it" team who were doing everything right - they had a rough playoffs, so why not go "all in" and get that big scoring winger. Enter Nash. Where are they now? Fighting with the Islanders for 8th in the East. How about this - a bit further back - another "powerhouse" franchise. The Flyers trade away Carter and Richards. Early results appear fantastic. Claude Giroux was considered to be on par with Crosby, and possibly might surpass him. We get to the playoffs and who hoists the cup. . . Carter and Richards. Where are they now? Anyone interested in Simon Gagne? Lets look at this year. Who among Canadian teams is expected to be the team that takes the league by the throat, bolstered by a bevy of awe-inspiring youg talent. They even played together throughout the lock-out, gaining the advantage of readiness and familiarity. Where are they now? Handing out 6 mill a year contracts to every forward on their team not named Gagne (who has the best numbers btw). When you look at the Canucks, their roster, their prospects, their options, etc. . . can everyone PLEASE take off their idiot-glasses and compare them carefully to other franchises and look honestly at what those franchises have been through? Up until this year everyone would point at the Red Wings - apparently the clear model that every team should emulate. Just have savvy drafting, slow development, and voila - eternal contenders making runs every year. But wait. . . now that their hall-of-famer has finally hung up his skates, Ken Holland gives his own team a 50% chance of making the playoffs. Apparently pulling elite 1st liners out of the 5th and 6th round isn't actually all that easy. No one on CDC or elsewhere is talking about the Canucks folowing the Red Wings now. Now it is all Pittsburg, all the time. Seize the day, be like Pittsburg!!! Well, let's see what Pittsburg did last year to get themselves into their current position. . . clearly they saw the writing on the wall, the window is closing right?!?! Clearly they should keep all of their top talent at all costs, right??!?!? Actually, they trade away Jordan Stall for picks and prospects. Jordan Staal is a pretty good player. In fact, many would say he is a rising elite player, while their current acquisitions are all in decline. Now, bolstered by a 12+ game win streak without Malkin in the llineup, sitting uncontested at the top of the Eastern conference, and sensing weakness in teams that they have traditionally had trouble with (NYR, Philly), they decide to roll the dice with some rentals. But what have they really paid? A few second rounders? Some college players? A 1st rounder in the 25+ range? Let me tell you, if the Canucks were on a 14 game win streak and sitting on top of the league with Kesler and Booth out, both were likely to be back any day, and Iginla wanted to come to Vancouver and the price was what Pittsburg payed, and we had the cap room, he would have done it. But that is not the position we are in. The problem is not that we haven't traded Luongo. The problem is not that Booth and Ballard haven't really played up to expectations. The problem is not that we have a bad coach or lack good players on our team. Being a GM is about making the best moves you can, out of the moves that are available, to maximise your returns and minimize your losses. Iginla wanted to go to Pittsburg - that's why Boston didn't get him. It wasn't an available move for MG, anymore that signing Shea Weber, Zach Parise, or Ryan Suter in the offseason. People who QQ anbout such things don't understand anything about being a GM at all. Similarly, you don't deal away Luongo now for a 2nd rounder, or Bozak, as some pundits have suggested on HNIC. A 1B goalie who can step in and play if you get an injury to Schneider, or he struggles, is worth more to the team now than those things. The cap space is already available if you put Booth on LTIR, trading Luongo for cap space makes no sense. Those would be stupid moves for MG. MG, like all smart GMs has a value in mind for each of his players. If he can trade them for greater than that value, he pulls the trigger, if he can't get that value, he doesn't trade. If he doesn't make a trade at the deadline, it is because he has evaluated the potential value (and associated risks) and found that it just wasn't there. Please, before you make bold statements about what MG should do, look at the situations of other franchises in the league and get a little perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belsy91 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 All in? We have no chips to do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteeun Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 It's worked for Pittsburgh and Edmonton, who are going to be a dangerous team very soon with all that talent they've drafted by finishing last. By then Vancouver will be on the decline and in rebuild mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J529 Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 gillis believes their best chance at a cup is with both goalies and a shortened season you can't just thrown in the towel yet. canucks are nothing like the flames who should by all counts be in a rebuild mode.....gillis will be cautious and if its not going to cost the canucks too much then he will make a trade... luongo will be back here next year and the year after no matter how fast the canucks get knocked out of the playoffs. no one wants luongo contract....hence why he isn't traded yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteeun Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 You're mistaken. I heard from Eklund that it's Ballard, Raymond and a 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteeun Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 The goaltender situation has become a distraction and sideshow, which should have been dealt with already. That goes without saying. One of them needs to be moved. If that doesn't happened until after the season, then so be it. Gillis is the one who put the team into situation, along with signing Lu to the ridicious contract, so it's all on him. I can't see this continuing next season especially through 82 games, because Luongo wants to play and not be sitting on the bench. If he can't be traded because Gillis won't getting what he's asking or refuses to lower his demands, then either put him on waivers or buy him out. This cannot continue. The money being spent on Luongo, could be used elsewhere to address the real needs on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 If possibly dealing Luongo and Ballard, if the value is there, would be considered going "all in" then hells yeah. Otherwise, give up nothing of significant value and pick up a shutdown center who can win faceoffs, and perhaps a depth d so that in a crunch the Canucks don't have to depend upon Barker. Good value for the guys mentioned - I'm very happy. Otherwise a depth C like Goc or Boyd Gordon, I'm still happy. I like the team we have, especially when healthy, and the reality is that any and every team could face health issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J529 Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 I'd like to see Gillis call TB about Salo and see if they would be willing to part with him and what it would take to bring him back. He never should have left. All because Gillis refused to give him a second year. His huge shot on the point and PP has been greatly missed. AV only recently has started using Garrison on the point and PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteeun Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I'd like to see Gillis call TB about Salo and see if they would be willing to part with him and what it would take to bring him back. He never should have left. All because Gillis refused to give him a second year. His huge shot on the point and PP has been greatly missed. AV only recently has started using Garrison on the point and PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37yrsncounting Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I can't believe how many people on CDC, and even the number of commentators and insiders I see on TV, who just seem to have no sense of perspective at all when it comes to evaluating the position of a franchise and what they should be doing. If we went back in time to the draft, the Rangers were the new "it" team who were doing everything right - they had a rough playoffs, so why not go "all in" and get that big scoring winger. Enter Nash. Where are they now? Fighting with the Islanders for 8th in the East. How about this - a bit further back - another "powerhouse" franchise. The Flyers trade away Carter and Richards. Early results appear fantastic. Claude Giroux was considered to be on par with Crosby, and possibly might surpass him. We get to the playoffs and who hoists the cup. . . Carter and Richards. Where are they now? Anyone interested in Simon Gagne? Lets look at this year. Who among Canadian teams is expected to be the team that takes the league by the throat, bolstered by a bevy of awe-inspiring youg talent. They even played together throughout the lock-out, gaining the advantage of readiness and familiarity. Where are they now? Handing out 6 mill a year contracts to every forward on their team not named Gagne (who has the best numbers btw). When you look at the Canucks, their roster, their prospects, their options, etc. . . can everyone PLEASE take off their idiot-glasses and compare them carefully to other franchises and look honestly at what those franchises have been through? Up until this year everyone would point at the Red Wings - apparently the clear model that every team should emulate. Just have savvy drafting, slow development, and voila - eternal contenders making runs every year. But wait. . . now that their hall-of-famer has finally hung up his skates, Ken Holland gives his own team a 50% chance of making the playoffs. Apparently pulling elite 1st liners out of the 5th and 6th round isn't actually all that easy. No one on CDC or elsewhere is talking about the Canucks folowing the Red Wings now. Now it is all Pittsburg, all the time. Seize the day, be like Pittsburg!!! Well, let's see what Pittsburg did last year to get themselves into their current position. . . clearly they saw the writing on the wall, the window is closing right?!?! Clearly they should keep all of their top talent at all costs, right??!?!? Actually, they trade away Jordan Stall for picks and prospects. Jordan Staal is a pretty good player. In fact, many would say he is a rising elite player, while their current acquisitions are all in decline. Now, bolstered by a 12+ game win streak without Malkin in the llineup, sitting uncontested at the top of the Eastern conference, and sensing weakness in teams that they have traditionally had trouble with (NYR, Philly), they decide to roll the dice with some rentals. But what have they really paid? A few second rounders? Some college players? A 1st rounder in the 25+ range? Let me tell you, if the Canucks were on a 14 game win streak and sitting on top of the league with Kesler and Booth out, both were likely to be back any day, and Iginla wanted to come to Vancouver and the price was what Pittsburg payed, and we had the cap room, he would have done it. But that is not the position we are in. The problem is not that we haven't traded Luongo. The problem is not that Booth and Ballard haven't really played up to expectations. The problem is not that we have a bad coach or lack good players on our team. Being a GM is about making the best moves you can, out of the moves that are available, to maximise your returns and minimize your losses. Iginla wanted to go to Pittsburg - that's why Boston didn't get him. It wasn't an available move for MG, anymore that signing Shea Weber, Zach Parise, or Ryan Suter in the offseason. People who QQ anbout such things don't understand anything about being a GM at all. Similarly, you don't deal away Luongo now for a 2nd rounder, or Bozak, as some pundits have suggested on HNIC. A 1B goalie who can step in and play if you get an injury to Schneider, or he struggles, is worth more to the team now than those things. The cap space is already available if you put Booth on LTIR, trading Luongo for cap space makes no sense. Those would be stupid moves for MG. MG, like all smart GMs has a value in mind for each of his players. If he can trade them for greater than that value, he pulls the trigger, if he can't get that value, he doesn't trade. If he doesn't make a trade at the deadline, it is because he has evaluated the potential value (and associated risks) and found that it just wasn't there. Please, before you make bold statements about what MG should do, look at the situations of other franchises in the league and get a little perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monteeun Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 wouldn't it be more prudent to focus on our situation first? how many more chances are we going to have to take a run at the cup? We still have two 'elite' superstars getting older, our goaltending is solid. Our second line has been injured but at the same time, they haven't really proven to have much chemistry when they were playing together. We don't really have a third or fourth line. Our D is suppose to be solid and deeper than most. Are we suppose to wait for our less than stellar prospect pool to develop? Or wait for a Luongo trade when the glut of available good goaltenders is the largest in memory? When the sedins are done, we have no shot at a cup. We have to do something now! We need a third line at minimum. Gillis need to think outside the box. Trade Edler, or Kesler or even Kassian. Win now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Sparkle Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 really dont understand why we have to "go all in" every single year. if that were the case, this team would be a perpetual bottom feeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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