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Canucks should go all in at Deadline


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#61 JamesB

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:57 PM

Teams that go "all in" often wind up like poker players who frequently go "all in" -- on the sidelines.

The Canucks do have a very thin pipeline right now. I would not favour shutting it off entirely to marginally increase the chances of getting to the Stanley Cup Finals this year.

The Canucks best shot is for Schneider to get hot in the playoffs (like he is right now). That is not going to be affected by picking up a rental or two from the available set of rental players. No trade the Canucks could make would be anywhere near as valuable as just getting Kesler back in any case.

I favour trying to trade Luongo for picks or prospects and trying to rebuild the pipeline.

#62 Kassian's Tooth

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:28 AM

Edmonton??? Yes they've been very successful. That next step is a big one. The league is full of former
saviours of the oil that they finally gave up on. The only sure fire I see there is Eberle.

#63 guesswhere

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:54 AM

Must go all in and acquire Brent Sopel. Must. Now!


Kind of missed him at the time... congrats to him on winning the cup tho, even if with the hawks.

#64 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 01:23 AM

Teams that go "all in" often wind up like poker players who frequently go "all in" -- on the sidelines.

The Canucks do have a very thin pipeline right now. I would not favour shutting it off entirely to marginally increase the chances of getting to the Stanley Cup Finals this year.

The Canucks best shot is for Schneider to get hot in the playoffs (like he is right now). That is not going to be affected by picking up a rental or two from the available set of rental players. No trade the Canucks could make would be anywhere near as valuable as just getting Kesler back in any case.

I favour trying to trade Luongo for picks or prospects and trying to rebuild the pipeline.


This argument makes a lot of sense and is the one I favor for this season as well.

If they can get playoff calibre guys for the type of prices we have seen though? Why not go for it this season? Its not like the Canucks are all that great at drafting anyway.

#65 Bananas

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:00 AM

There are way too many variables this year for GMMG to bother trying to make a splash at the deadline. Prices are way to high for a bunch of rental players.

From what I understand, this year's draft is very strong. If not stand pat, I'd rather see the Canucks sell a little bit in order to hit the Draft hard. The Canucks have a lot of redundant and movable assets that could bring in a decent number of picks for the Canucks that could be used to trade up or improve the team next year.

If the Canucks sell, they can sell over-priced like everybody else. If they sell for picks, then other teams will buy because they wont be improving the Canucks for this year's play-offs.

People will buy high for players like Luongo/Schneider and Ballard, and even Alberts if we sell them for picks to people who want to run for the cup.


In summary, this team is in complete dissension this year for a number of reasons. There is little to no point in making a splash at deadline when there are so many "if"s that define this team's success come this post-season.

I think if the Canucks sell a bit now, then they can make a huge splash in the off-season with all these acquired assets in preparation for next year, in which we can have a full training camp with a hopefully full roster and, fingers crossed, a new coach!
Hey CDC! Remember this!?

http://forum.canucks...in-this-change/

#66 wai_lai416

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:53 AM

i fail to see the optimism some ppl have for the team.. we avg what? barely 2 goals a game nowadays? even with kesler back it won't make a difference.. if this was a full 82 game season.. we will have 0 30 goals scorer.. we can't even score goals now during the regular season.. so what makes you think we'll magically hit a switch and score more in the playoff when it's a lot tougher to score? our last 2 playoff... WE CAN'T SCORE.. and let's look at our lineup even when healthy.. we have even less scoring than last year.. you expect Schneider or Luongo whomever is still here playing in the playoff to give up 1 goal or less 16 times to win the cup assuming we can even score 2 goals per game?

#67 Kryten

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 04:08 AM

If it means cutting loose some prospects and/or roster players that are underachieving for some depth, then sure. Draft picks however, should not be touched.
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#68 grumpworsley

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:06 AM

i fail to see the optimism some ppl have for the team.. we avg what? barely 2 goals a game nowadays? even with kesler back it won't make a difference.. if this was a full 82 game season.. we will have 0 30 goals scorer.. we can't even score goals now during the regular season.. so what makes you think we'll magically hit a switch and score more in the playoff when it's a lot tougher to score? our last 2 playoff... WE CAN'T SCORE.. and let's look at our lineup even when healthy.. we have even less scoring than last year.. you expect Schneider or Luongo whomever is still here playing in the playoff to give up 1 goal or less 16 times to win the cup assuming we can even score 2 goals per game?


Hmmmm last I looked we out scored the opposition in the last 6 games?
Que every excuse in the book .................now

Edited by grumpworsley, 30 March 2013 - 05:16 AM.


#69 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:11 AM

The Penguins are in a unique situation in which they have cap room, lots of high-end prospects, acquired picks but MOST IMPORTANTLY they have a young, highly skilled core.

Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury have the 2 center spots, top-pairing defence spot and goalie role covered for the next 5 years. Nobody they draft next season or even the season after that is going to make much of an impact on their roster because of this young core. Throw Neal in there, who's going to be a staple in their top-6 for a while, as well as Kunitz and Dupuis who are just hitting their prime now, and not many drafted forwards have a chance in Pittsburgh anyway behind those stars.

On defence, I believe they still have a bunch of good young prospects. Letang will probably win a Norris so good luck to any draftee who wants to steal his ice time. This sort of position can easily be filled by free-agents anyway, as it often is.

So frankly, Pittsburgh doesn't need to draft players right now. They have the unique luxury of being able to throw away first and second round picks thanks to Crosby and the rest of their young core. The Canucks on the otherhand, cannot. We need our high picks to replace the Sedins, who, in 5 years time, probably won't be first liners and will need to be replaced from within. In fact, we don't have any young stud who will have a guaranteed spot on this team apart from maybe Schneider. Raymond and Hansen look like top-6 locks but aren't yet 1st line material, and Kassian has been inconsistent at best. As for Edler, he's at a cross-roads in his career right now, and could end up really sucking if he bombs out next season as well. We need picks and we need to develop some stars. Plus, we have very little cap room.

Penguins and Canucks - completely different circumstances, so don't expect any bold moves. We honestly don't need them anyway, our wingers are still some of the deepest in the league and our top-4 defence is (on paper) the best. We have the best goalie duo and only really need some depth forwards and centers.
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#70 ButterBean

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:01 AM

Why go all in? With our prospect pool right now we can't afford to give away draft picks like Pittburgh because their prospect pool is deeper and their core is younger. Right now our only good trading chips besides prospects/picks are Luongo and possibly Edler(very unlikely). IMO Luongo should've been traded in the offseason but it likely wont happen soon. But I'd rather stay competitive for years and not risk the future for 1 year.

#71 Coconuts

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:51 AM

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#72 Boudrias

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:11 AM

One can certainly question how good Van's drafting has been over the decades.

The dif between what existed in Van prior to Gillis is demonstrated in the development or lack thereof of Mason Raymond and Jordan Schroeder. As thin as Van's depth chart is now it was absolutely brutal when Raymond was brought up. He spent less than 40 games in the AHL. His speed was so tantalizing that Nonis could not resist bringing him even tho his fundamental game needed much work at the AHL level. While Raymond is a good hockey player I often wonder how much better he could have been if he had got 2 years with the Moose. I also wonder if this ooportunism the Canucks demonstrated will influence his decision to resign next year.

Schroeder on the otherhand has had time at the AHL level. He has had no sustained time at the NHL level where his confidence could be broken. Even if Gillis makes a deal for a C by the deadline and Schroeder gets sent back down IMO he will return with confidence next season. A big dif with Gillis is he is signing players who want to come to Van, Nonis couldn't do that.

So 'going all in' is a fools game in Van's case. Even tho things are much better under Gillis the org simply does not have the depth yet to make the moves necessary for that strategy to pay off. Van's defence is in disarray, they have no 2nd line and their 3C is not CUP ready. Kesler's effectiveness when he returns is a gamble. Gillis should move Lou for as much young talent as he can get and trade Ballard for a pic or prospect. 2011 was probably the high point of the Twins leading this team to a CUP. Van could mount another serious run with them as the 2nd line or at best a 1A and 1B. It means that Gillis has to construct another first line over the next 2 years to do that.

#73 Max-a-Million

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:46 AM

"All in" is a great poker play when you are short stacked. You can double your stack OR YOU COULD BE ELIMINATED.

Contrary to general public opinion, I think the Canucks should keep Luongo. My reason is this, I see the teams switching from goon style hockey (aka Boston Bruins 2011) to clutch, grab, interfere and collapse to the net style. Fineness and speed are becoming more prevalent and with the best one-two goal tender pair in the league, I believe we have the best chance ever to win a Stanley with our "lunch pail" crew than we ever had.

Most of the goals this year are goal crasher goals and blue line shots. This makes players like Burrows, Kessler when he's healthy and Lappy all that more productive. Raymond is back to going at the net as is Hansen and with some muscle to protect the Sedins, I believe the playoffs will see a very determined Canuck Team. I am not impressed with their regular season results until you look at the league standings and realize they are only 5 wins behind teams like the Blackhawks, the Penguins and the Ducks and still hovering around 6th place. NOT BAD considering we've been short staffed the whole way.

Keep the faith!

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#74 toyotafan

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:49 AM

If the Canucks missed the playoff for multiple years and stockpiled draft picks , maybe came up with a superstar or two, then they could go all in and pick up a rental that puts them over the top, if not they could just mortgage their future and be like Toronto's decade long rebuild

#75 bobopan

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:40 AM

I just don't think we have the assest to make a truely bold move unless you want to part with Jensen and our 1st round pick.


We'd be much better hanging onto Lack for a couple more years and hopefully he can make the jump to the NHL and prove a little..Won't get much of anything for him right now. Bishop was traded for a 2nd round pick last year? and he was one of the best goalies in the AHL.

Who else do we really have thats gonna bring anyone back..Rodin? Think he's a long shot to make the NHL. Gaunce i guess could be used for bait and probably Corrado and Connnaghton.. after that it doesn't look very appealing.

#76 Funky Fatcat

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:32 AM

"All in" is a great poker play when you are short stacked. You can double your stack OR YOU COULD BE ELIMINATED.

Contrary to general public opinion, I think the Canucks should keep Luongo. My reason is this, I see the teams switching from goon style hockey (aka Boston Bruins 2011) to clutch, grab, interfere and collapse to the net style. Fineness and speed are becoming more prevalent and with the best one-two goal tender pair in the league, I believe we have the best chance ever to win a Stanley with our "lunch pail" crew than we ever had.

Most of the goals this year are goal crasher goals and blue line shots. This makes players like Burrows, Kessler when he's healthy and Lappy all that more productive. Raymond is back to going at the net as is Hansen and with some muscle to protect the Sedins, I believe the playoffs will see a very determined Canuck Team. I am not impressed with their regular season results until you look at the league standings and realize they are only 5 wins behind teams like the Blackhawks, the Penguins and the Ducks and still hovering around 6th place. NOT BAD considering we've been short staffed the whole way.

Keep the faith!


Your validity is gone

#77 Sbriggs

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:12 AM

Look at what Pittsburgh has done. Reason being is the cap comes down next year, hence why Pens were very aggressive in acquiring Iginla, Morrow and Murray. Granted Canucks don't have the assets it would take to do what Pens did. The argument can be made not to mortgage the future, but what future do we have? Aside from Jensen, we have nothing in the way of good prospects. Canucks window for winning is closing. I fully expect all Gillis will do at most is acquire a 3rd line Center and that will be it.

Schoader, Gaunce and theres plenty more

#78 Sbriggs

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:21 AM

even if we had the assets to trade, its not our year. luongo situation looming over our heads prevents the team from solidifing, health of the team, questioable work ethique, inconsistantcy, other teams have the timming right this year and we dont. Not a good year to go all in. We trade for next year and the future.

Well if you remember LA barely made the play offs last year, limped in had a injury riddled season and who won the stanely cup? I think we have as good a chance as anyone.

#79 Ride the red Pony

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:30 AM

Well if you remember LA barely made the play offs last year, limped in had a injury riddled season and who won the stanely cup? I think we have as good a chance as anyone.


Your right, there are a lot of variables that go into winning the cup, injuries, reffing, unfortunately the Nucks don't fare well with either of these.
I believe we have the goaltending, but IMO it stops there, Sedins go away quietly, and we don't have enough grit to shut down other teams big forwards come playoff time.
So therein lies the 1,000,000 dollar question, will MG be able to procure the players we need to make a decent run or will he stay staus quo and hope for the best.

#80 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:35 AM

Is Lack considered a prospect? He's nearly NHL ready. If this mess with Luongo ever gets resolved, Lack will backup Schneider.


Sorry. Ain't going nowhere with a Schneider/ Lack tandem.

#81 Sbriggs

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:35 AM

wouldn't it be more prudent to focus on our situation first? how many more chances are we going to have to take a run at the cup? We still have two 'elite' superstars getting older, our goaltending is solid. Our second line has been injured but at the same time, they haven't really proven to have much chemistry when they were playing together. We don't really have a third or fourth line. Our D is suppose to be solid and deeper than most. Are we suppose to wait for our less than stellar prospect pool to develop? Or wait for a Luongo trade when the glut of available good goaltenders is the largest in memory? When the sedins are done, we have no shot at a cup. We have to do something now! We need a third line at minimum. Gillis need to think outside the box. Trade Edler, or Kesler or even Kassian. Win now!

Um wrong wrong and ummm,Wrong. We have one of the best 3rd lines in the league and our D is deep and again one of the best in the league. Goaltending is at its best right now, even Luongo says Cory is probably the best in the league. So as I see it and anyone with good vissionshould as well we need a sniper on our 2nd line and as we become healthy a back up centre would help as well. Is almostamazing that we have people who dont see that we are on the upper end of the league as always and we have been hurt and not playing very well at best. Imagine if we put it together come play off time like LA did last year and become healthy all at the same time when the play offs start.........watch out

#82 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:38 AM

"All in" is a great poker play when you are short stacked. You can double your stack OR YOU COULD BE ELIMINATED.

Contrary to general public opinion, I think the Canucks should keep Luongo. My reason is this, I see the teams switching from goon style hockey (aka Boston Bruins 2011) to clutch, grab, interfere and collapse to the net style. Fineness and speed are becoming more prevalent and with the best one-two goal tender pair in the league, I believe we have the best chance ever to win a Stanley with our "lunch pail" crew than we ever had.

Most of the goals this year are goal crasher goals and blue line shots. This makes players like Burrows, Kessler when he's healthy and Lappy all that more productive. Raymond is back to going at the net as is Hansen and with some muscle to protect the Sedins, I believe the playoffs will see a very determined Canuck Team. I am not impressed with their regular season results until you look at the league standings and realize they are only 5 wins behind teams like the Blackhawks, the Penguins and the Ducks and still hovering around 6th place. NOT BAD considering we've been short staffed the whole way.

Keep the faith!


Bang on. Keep Kesler at 3C and defend against the best and the Canucks don't en need a trade. With this they also keep secondary production from the Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen line. Why? Schroeder passes.

#83 SealTheDeal

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:07 PM

wouldn't it be more prudent to focus on our situation first? how many more chances are we going to have to take a run at the cup? We still have two 'elite' superstars getting older, our goaltending is solid. Our second line has been injured but at the same time, they haven't really proven to have much chemistry when they were playing together. We don't really have a third or fourth line. Our D is suppose to be solid and deeper than most. Are we suppose to wait for our less than stellar prospect pool to develop? Or wait for a Luongo trade when the glut of available good goaltenders is the largest in memory? When the sedins are done, we have no shot at a cup. We have to do something now! We need a third line at minimum. Gillis need to think outside the box. Trade Edler, or Kesler or even Kassian. Win now!


Arg. . . did you quote me without reading anything I wrote?

MG has to make the best moves with what he has, not force moves for what he wants, if the organization is going to have success now, in the future, ever!

I am not opposed to trading Edler, Kassion, Kesler, anyone on the roster. Personally I would love to trade Edler - his performance in the series last year against LA was absolutely brutal. The primary factor in making a trade is whether or not the value, modified by the associated risk, is greater in what you give back than what you give up. Hodgson got traded for Kassian because the odds of Kassian turning out to be a power forward who could crush the faces of players that would otherwise run our smaller, skilled forwards, when compared to the odds of Hodgson supplanting either Kesler or Sedin and not being a distraction to the organization in the meantime, favoured making the trade in MGs mind. Will it work out? Who knows. Like all trades, it was a gamble.

The reason we don't trade Luongo is precisely what you mentioned - that the market is awash with goaltenders. I actually find that to be surprising, since it was on the back of elite goaltending that LA made their run last year. But what this means is the return for a goalie is low, but the utility of a goalie is still quite high, particularly in a short season. Schneider will not be playing the rest of the games this season, whether Luongo gets traded or not. I would much rather have Luongo in net than many of the other starters in the league, never mind backups. Luongo's cap space is not needed to acquire any player with a cap hit of less than 6 mill for this season. So why would you trade Luongo now? You don't.

A player like Edler however. . . big risk, big reward in a player like that. Again, it depends entirely on return. Very few teams are going to make a play for a guy like Edler (or Kesler) before a trade deadline - what you get and what you give away changes your team so much that it is hard to do. I'm not saying it can't happen. LA got Carter for Johnson last year, and it worked out for them. In my estimation that is a very similar situation - Johnson was an offensive defenseman who couldn't always handle his defensive responsibilities. Carter was a proven top-6 with a big salary hit for a long, long time. What if hypothetically you could get Gaborik straight up for Edler? Wouldn't happen because of Gaborik's no-trade, but if that's the kind of deal you are talking about, I'm sure MG is looking at those. If it doesn't happen, it will be because MG doesn't like the "value" X "the odds" of A for B. It doesn't make sense for him to make moves that don't build value, short or long term, with the franchise.

#84 Raph

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:07 PM

Bang on. Keep Kesler at 3C and defend against the best and the Canucks don't en need a trade. With this they also keep secondary production from the Raymond - Schroeder - Hansen line. Why? Schroeder passes.


Not gonna happen, Kesler has too much pride to go back to a shutdown role. If it was the case, we would've used Hodgson as 2C a long time ago.

And the boat to go all in long sailed in 2011 when Hodgson and Schneider were premier blue chip prospects. The adding a few more pieces to the current team isn't going to put us over the top. Especially with the value for Luongo is declining

#85 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:08 PM

Your right, there are a lot of variables that go into winning the cup, injuries, reffing, unfortunately the Nucks don't fare well with either of these.
I believe we have the goaltending, but IMO it stops there, Sedins go away quietly, and we don't have enough grit to shut down other teams big forwards come playoff time.
So therein lies the 1,000,000 dollar question, will MG be able to procure the players we need to make a decent run or will he stay staus quo and hope for the best.


Actually that's an $24,000,000 question on a home advantage 16 game playoff winning Cup. Usually it takes more than 16 games to get 16 wins.

#86 Canucks_Hockey_101

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

Not gonna happen, Kesler has too much pride to go back to a shutdown role. If it was the case, we would've used Hodgson as 2C a long time ago.

And the boat to go all in long sailed in 2011 when Hodgson and Schneider were premier blue chip prospects. The adding a few more pieces to the current team isn't going to put us over the top. Especially with the value for Luongo is declining


Then one might ask Kesler a personal question: would you rather win a Cup playing 3C or have an early exit laying 2C. I bet he offers to play 3C.

A bird who willingly walks into his cage will always sing that much better.

Edited by Canucks_Hockey_101, 30 March 2013 - 12:11 PM.


#87 icycold

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:14 PM

The Only thing we need is a big 2nd line center, and of course Kesler back as the Old Kesler. His ego has sure got in the way and now figures he has to save the team single handedly on the 2nd line and has a hard time passing the puck and trying to do it all himself. Is it completely his fault in this? No but if he goes back to his old self and somehow we manage to get that big 2nd line center between Kesler and Booth then we'd be doing well, i'd like to see Kassian on 3rd line with his size and skill set developed would make a shut down line very dangerous but Kassian would have to develop at a quick pace for next year.
Do i see this team going far this year? Nope! Possibly MG sees it the same way and is waiting for the off season to do something since teams might be a lot more willing to do something then because of the cap drop. Either way it isn't going to be easy for MG to get much done before then.
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#88 ken64

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:21 PM

gillis wont do much on deadline day , i think mabe a sami phalson type player thats about it i think we could use a winger /center/ and a pp specialist all three ma be wishfull thinking at best

#89 Zoolander

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:43 PM

I don't think we need to go all-in like the Pens, but I would be happy with filling holes. A 3rd pairing RH d-man would be nice, possibly a shutdown defender. A 2nd line player like Jagr or Derek Roy would also be very helpful. Keep Schroeder as the 3rd line Centre. We won't have to give up any prospects or 1st rd picks like the Pens did if we can trade for 1 of these UFA's
My 2014 Draft wishlist: 1st rd: Draisaitl, Virtanen, Scherbak. 2nd rd: Brendan Lemieux, Thatcher Demko (Goalie)
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Future Canucks top 6:
Shinkaruk-Draisaitl-Scherbak
Virtanen-Horvat-Jensen

#90 MANGO

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 02:38 PM

Well if you remember LA barely made the play offs last year, limped in had a injury riddled season and who won the stanely cup? I think we have as good a chance as anyone.


I would agree with you on that. But LA beat the odds, they had allot stacked against them and they won, congrats. But that kind of thing doesn't happen that often and I don't think that betting the future on a low percentage move is a good idea the way this season is panning out so far. The pens and the hawks timing is on this year. They are playing well, relatively healthy, business is taken care of and has them in a position to acquire free agents at the deadline. We are in a quagmire of uncertainty.




formerly......puck n icehole





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