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Vision Vancouver's War on Cars


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#61 theminister

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:24 PM

Vancouver is quite different because of the house prices in Vancouver have forced many people out to the suburbs where there is very poor transit coverage. To get to work in Vancouver from many suburbs requires cars unless you want to double or triple your commute times.

Singapore??? Seriously? It is a tiny dense city state.


I agree. The problem is people live too far away from their work.

Yes, seriously. Singapore has one of the best transit systems in the world. Downtown Vancouver is a good comparison in population density and this is where our population is going.....up. Since the Mayor's office oversees just the City of Vancouver I think he is doing right by his constituents. The people complaining are not the ones who live in Vancouver proper.

Edited by theminister, 30 March 2013 - 05:34 PM.

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#62 theminister

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:24 PM

While transit may be a viable option within most of the City of Vancouver, it is not in many of the suburban areas so those people need vehicles to commute and do family business when not working.


They don't vote for Mayor Moonbeam.
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#63 Wetcoaster

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:36 PM

They don't vote for Mayor Moonbeam.

And yet he declares war on the people Vancouver needs to run its economy.
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#64 theminister

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:41 PM

And yet he declares war on the people Vancouver needs to run its economy.


Yes, he intends to gun them down in the streets before strangling their children in their beds, only after draining their bank accounts of course.

Edited by theminister, 30 March 2013 - 05:41 PM.

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#65 Wetcoaster

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 05:42 PM

Yes, he intends to gun them down in the streets before strangling their children in their beds, only after draining their bank accounts of course.

Seriously???

That is the best you can do?
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#66 inane

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:42 PM

*
POPULAR

And yet he declares war on the people Vancouver needs to run its economy.


Your disturbingly casual and pathetically inflammatory use of 'war' notwithstanding, I could only imagine your vitriol for someone who would dare stand in the way of the private vehicle, someone who would dare cater to that group of hippy moonbeams.

Someone like that so called 'visionary' Art Phillips.


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#67 Russ

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

Good.

I frickin' hate cars.

They are the bane of our modern society.

What about all the people who work nights and can't take public transit? Hell I know theres no way in hell I could ever bus to my work with my start time.
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#68 Wetcoaster

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:41 PM

Your disturbingly casual and pathetically inflammatory use of 'war' notwithstanding, I could only imagine your vitriol for someone who would dare stand in the way of the private vehicle, someone who would dare cater to that group of hippy moonbeams.

Someone like that so called 'visionary' Art Phillips.

Gregor is nothing like Art Phillips. The comparison dishonours the memory of Phillips

Edited by Wetcoaster, 30 March 2013 - 07:42 PM.

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#69 Wetcoaster

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 08:16 PM

Here are the laws (provincial and City of Vancouver bylaws) for cyclists:


Bicycle Safety Helmets

Province of British Columbia Motor Vehicle Act - Section 184

  • A person commits an offence if that person operates or rides as a passenger on a cycle on a highway and is not properly wearing a bicycle safety helmet that
    • is designated as an approved bicycle safety helmet under subsection (4) (a), or
    • meets the standards and specifications prescribed under subsection (4) ( B).

  • A parent or guardian of a person under the age of 16 years commits an offence if the parent or guardian authorizes or knowingly permits the person to operate or ride as a passenger on a cycle on a highway if that person is not properly wearing a bicycle safety helmet that
    • is designated as an approved bicycle safety helmet under subsection (4) (a), or
    • meets the standards and specifications prescribed under subsection (4) ( B).
  • A person who is convicted of an offence under subsection (1) or (2) is liable to a fine of not more than $100.
  • The superintendent may make regulations as follows:
    • designating a helmet as an approved bicycle safety helmet for the purposes of this section;
    • prescribing standards and specifications for bicycle safety helmets.
  • Regulations made under subsection (4) ( B) may adopt by reference, in whole or in part, standards or specifications published by a national or international standards association, as amended from time to time.

  • The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations as follows:
    • providing for and requiring the identification and marking of bicycle safety helmets;
    • exempting any person or class of persons from the requirements of this section and prescribing conditions for those exemptions.


Rights and duties of operator of cycle

Province of British Columbia Motor Vehicle Act - Section 183
  • In addition to the duties imposed by this section, a person operating a cycle on a highway has the same rights and duties as a driver of a vehicle.
  • A person operating a cycle
    • must not ride on a sidewalk unless authorized by a by-law made under section 124 or unless otherwise directed by a sign,
    • must not, for the purpose of crossing a highway, ride on a crosswalk unless authorized to do so by a bylaw made under section 124 or unless otherwise directed by a sign,
    • must, subject to paragraph (a), ride as near as practicable to the right side of the highway,
    • must not ride abreast of another person operating a cycle on the roadway,
    • must keep at least one hand on the handlebars,
    • must not ride other than on or astride a regular seat of the cycle,
    • must not use the cycle to carry more persons at one time than the number for which it is designed and equipped, and
    • must not ride a cycle on a highway where signs prohibit their use.
  • Nothing in subsection (2) © requires a person to ride a cycle on any part of a highway that is not paved.
  • Despite section 165, a person operating a cycle who intends to turn it to the left at an intersection where there is more than one lane from which left turns are permitted must
    • cause the cycle to approach the intersection in the lane closest to the right side of the highway from which a left turn is permitted,
    • keep the cycle to the right of the line that divides the lane referred to in paragraph (a) from the lane immediately to the left of that lane,
    • after entering the intersection, turn the cycle to the left so that it will leave the intersection to the right of the line referred to in paragraph ( B), and
    • when practicable, turn the cycle in the portion of the intersection to the left of the centre of the intersection.
  • A person must not ride a cycle, skate board, roller skates, in-line roller skates, sled, play vehicle or other similar means of conveyance when it is attached by the arm and hand of the rider or otherwise to a vehicle on a highway.
  • A cycle operated on a highway between 1/2 hour after sunset and 1/2 hour before sunrise must have the following equipment:
    • a lighted lamp mounted on the front and under normal atmospheric conditions capable of displaying a white light visible at least 150 m in the direction the cycle is pointed;
    • a red reflector of a make or design approved by the superintendent for the purposes of this section;
    • a lighted lamp, mounted and visible to the rear, displaying a red light.
  • Despite any other provision of this Act or the regulations, a cycle may be equipped with a flashing red light that is of a make or design approved by the superintendent for the purposes of this section.
  • A cycle operated on a highway must be equipped with a brake that will enable the person operating the cycle to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level and clean pavement.
  • If an accident occurs by which a person or property is injured, directly or indirectly, owing to the presence or operation of a cycle on a highway or a sidewalk, the person in charge of the cycle must
    • remain at or immediately return to the scene of the accident,
    • render all possible assistance, and
    • give to anyone sustaining loss or injury, and to any peace officer who is present, his or her name and address and the name and address of the owner of the cycle, and if the cycle has been licensed and registered, the licence or registration number of the cycle.
  • If an accident involving the presence or operation of a cycle on a highway or a sidewalk, either directly or indirectly causes death or injury to a person or damage to property causing aggregate damage apparently exceeding $100, the person in charge of the cycle must immediately report the matter to a police officer or a person designated by the superintendent to receive those reports, and must furnish information, including that referred to in section 67 (8), respecting the accident as may be required by the police officer or person designated.
  • A report made under this section is without prejudice and is for the information of the Provincial or municipal police, and must not be open to public inspection.
  • The fact the report has been made is admissible in evidence solely to prove compliance with this section, and the report is admissible in evidence on the prosecution of any person for the offence of making a false statement in it.
  • Despite subsections (11) and (12), a peace officer may, when giving evidence in a proceeding, refer to a report prepared by him or her under subsection (9) or (10) to refresh his or her memory.

  • A person must not operate a cycle
    • on a highway without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway, or
    • on a sidewalk without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the sidewalk.
  • If a person is convicted of an offence under this Act in respect of his or her riding or operating a cycle, the court may, in addition to or in place of any penalty otherwise prescribed, order the cycle seized, and on the expiry of that period the person entitled to it may again have possession of the cycle.
  • For the purpose of seizing and impounding a cycle under an order made under subsection (15), a peace officer may enter any place or building in which the cycle is located.
  • A person operating a cycle on a highway must signify
    • a left turn by extending the person's left hand and arm horizontally from the cycle,
    • a right turn by doing either of the following:
    • extending the person's left hand and arm out and upward from the cycle so that the upper and lower parts of the arm are at right angles;
    • extending the person's right hand and arm horizontally from the cycle, and
  • a stop or decrease in speed by extending the person's left hand and arm out and down from the cycle.


Cycling regulations from Street and Traffic By-Law No. 2849


(City of Vancouver consolidated report Oct 18, 2011)
Driver must have hand on steering device

41. No person shall drive a vehicle without having at least one hand on the steering device, and no person shall operate a bicycle without having at least one hand on the handle bars.
Slow Moving Vehicles

59. The driver of every slow moving vehicle shall drive such vehicle as close as possible to the right hand edge or curb of any street unless it is impracticable to travel on such side. For the purpose of this section a bicycle shall be regarded at all times as a slow moving vehicle.
Bicycles

60. No person shall ride any bicycle upon any sidewalk except where posted by signs.
60A. No person shall ride a bicycle upon a street while wearing headphones, or any other manufactured device capable of transmitting sound, over or in close proximity to both ears, except that this prohibition shall not apply to the wearing of a device designed and worn for the purpose of improving the wearer's ability to hear sounds emanating from outside of the device.
60B. No person shall ride a bicycle upon a street unless the bicycle is equipped with a bell capable of being used as a warning.
60C. The various paths and ways shown and described by either a thick black solid line or a thick black dashed line on the plans attached to this Bylaw as Schedule C are, pursuant to Section 124(1) of the Motor Vehicle Act, hereby designated for the purposes of sections 60D and 60E.
60D. No person shall operate or ride as a passenger on a bicycle on any path or way shown on Schedule C unless the person is properly wearing a bicycle safety helmet that has been designated under or complies with the standards and specifications of the Motor Vehicle Act.
60E. No parent or guardian of a person under the age of 16 years shall authorize or knowingly permit the person to operate or ride as a passenger on a bicycle on any path or way shown on Schedule C unless the person is properly wearing a bicycle safety helmet that has been designated under or complies with the standards and specifications of the Motor Vehicle Act.
60F. A police officer may arrest without warrant any bicyclist whom the officer finds committing a breach of any provision of this by-law if such person fails to stop and state his or her proper name and address when so requested by the police officer.




And here is Mayor Moonbeam with his "peeps" from Critical Mass out for a ride in 2009. He is third from the left, hands on his hips and his helmet hanging on the handlebars.

Posted Image


Setting a an example , eh? No wonder Critical Mass thinks the law does not apply to them. They have been show this by Hizzonner.

Edited by Wetcoaster, 30 March 2013 - 08:18 PM.

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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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#70 inane

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:07 PM

Gregor is nothing like Art Phillips. The comparison dishonours the memory of Phillips


Yes yes, deflect deflect...
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#71 Raffi Torres's Smirk

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 09:27 PM

I don't have the time to write a legitimate response, but I think you might learn a lot from taking a Transportation Engineering class (not Urban Planning, although that might be beneficial too). SOV's are a huge problem, as The Minister has pointed out, and hiring more parking officers is the City's way of trying to deal with it.

Also, to those that said/think that Vancouver is hard to bike in, try gearing up for it properly. I bike through Montreal winters and used to commute to Burnaby from Vancouver (45 mins away); you can bike anywhere if you have the right setup.
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#72 Kamero89

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:00 PM

If you live in the city core, or near a train, and you drive downtown, you are an idiot.(unless your job requires you to drive)

It's faster to walk downtown than it is to drive anywhere.

Youre so smart... not.

Believe it or not we need cars/trucks to transport goods that we require on a daily basis. Yes we have railroads but to ship goods we still need trucks to distribute! Think of it this way hippie, that organic salad your eating right now was probably shipped to Whole Foods via guess what? A gas powered truck.

So yes I do believe cars/trucks are a good use of resources to transport and distribute.


"You're"

Also you took his point far to literally.
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#73 n00bxQb

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:31 PM

If you live in the city core, or near a train, and you drive downtown, you are an idiot.(unless your job requires you to drive)

It's faster to walk downtown than it is to drive anywhere.

"You're"

Also you took his point far to literally.

What if you need to pick up a large item from downtown (i.e. large unique painting)? There are many reasons why one may need to take a vehicle downtown.

That said, I took the Skytrain from Burnaby to the downtown core 90% of the time when I lived in the GVR. Cheaper, easier, faster (It was about a 5 minute walk to the Skytrain station from my condo). The only exceptions were when I needed my vehicle (i.e. picking someone up from the ferry or airport after school) or when I was taking my anti-immune medications, which made me very sensitive to picking up communicable viruses, etc. (obviously a fully-packed Skytrain is a bad place to be during that time).
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#74 Lancaster

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:43 PM

Transit in Vancouver is both relatively efficient and relatively new.


Yeah, back during Expo '86.


The transit system built in Japan during the 80's are still way better than even the RAV line stuff from a few years back.
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#75 sakage.shinga

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 11:14 PM

Vehicles used for necessity at high occupancy are a small drop in the bucket. Most cars, by a wide margin, are single occupancy personal carriers. Extremely inefficient and clogging up the arteries of the lower mainland.

We got by just fine without cars in the past and hopefully they are soon to be a relic.

Why should the City of Vancouver pander to people who are not living in their voting district? I would rather they look out for the best of the occupants of Vancouver. If you want to live in another city completely and drive into another you should be prepared to pay for that privilege. With that money we can build better transit infrastructure.


We also got by just fine without cell phones, electricity, ambulances, antibiotics, etc. etc. Should all of those become relics, too?

I used to live in Vancouver and I still had to drive 30 minutes everyday to get to school. If I had taken transit, it would have taken close to 1 hour. Time is money to students like me and, I imagine, to all working people. It's one thing to use transit to meet up with people for drinks, to go to the park, and to just hang out, but it's quite another when you need to make the daily trip for school and/or for work. Get off your high horse and smell the roses, please.
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#76 :D

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 01:07 AM


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#77 Gustavo Fring

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 02:11 AM

Here are the laws (provincial and City of Vancouver bylaws) for cyclists:


Bicycle Safety Helmets

Province of British Columbia Motor Vehicle Act - Section 184


  • A person commits an offence if that person operates or rides as a passenger on a cycle on a highway and is not properly wearing a bicycle safety helmet that
    • is designated as an approved bicycle safety helmet under subsection (4) (a), or
    • meets the standards and specifications prescribed under subsection (4) ( B).

  • A parent or guardian of a person under the age of 16 years commits an offence if the parent or guardian authorizes or knowingly permits the person to operate or ride as a passenger on a cycle on a highway if that person is not properly wearing a bicycle safety helmet that
    • is designated as an approved bicycle safety helmet under subsection (4) (a), or
    • meets the standards and specifications prescribed under subsection (4) ( B).
  • A person who is convicted of an offence under subsection (1) or (2) is liable to a fine of not more than $100.
  • The superintendent may make regulations as follows:
    • designating a helmet as an approved bicycle safety helmet for the purposes of this section;
    • prescribing standards and specifications for bicycle safety helmets.
  • Regulations made under subsection (4) ( B) may adopt by reference, in whole or in part, standards or specifications published by a national or international standards association, as amended from time to time.

  • The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations as follows:
    • providing for and requiring the identification and marking of bicycle safety helmets;
    • exempting any person or class of persons from the requirements of this section and prescribing conditions for those exemptions.


Rights and duties of operator of cycle

Province of British Columbia Motor Vehicle Act - Section 183
  • In addition to the duties imposed by this section, a person operating a cycle on a highway has the same rights and duties as a driver of a vehicle.
  • A person operating a cycle
    • must not ride on a sidewalk unless authorized by a by-law made under section 124 or unless otherwise directed by a sign,
    • must not, for the purpose of crossing a highway, ride on a crosswalk unless authorized to do so by a bylaw made under section 124 or unless otherwise directed by a sign,
    • must, subject to paragraph (a), ride as near as practicable to the right side of the highway,
    • must not ride abreast of another person operating a cycle on the roadway,
    • must keep at least one hand on the handlebars,
    • must not ride other than on or astride a regular seat of the cycle,
    • must not use the cycle to carry more persons at one time than the number for which it is designed and equipped, and
    • must not ride a cycle on a highway where signs prohibit their use.
  • Nothing in subsection (2) requires a person to ride a cycle on any part of a highway that is not paved.
  • Despite section 165, a person operating a cycle who intends to turn it to the left at an intersection where there is more than one lane from which left turns are permitted must
    • cause the cycle to approach the intersection in the lane closest to the right side of the highway from which a left turn is permitted,
    • keep the cycle to the right of the line that divides the lane referred to in paragraph (a) from the lane immediately to the left of that lane,
    • after entering the intersection, turn the cycle to the left so that it will leave the intersection to the right of the line referred to in paragraph ( B), and
    • when practicable, turn the cycle in the portion of the intersection to the left of the centre of the intersection.
  • A person must not ride a cycle, skate board, roller skates, in-line roller skates, sled, play vehicle or other similar means of conveyance when it is attached by the arm and hand of the rider or otherwise to a vehicle on a highway.
  • A cycle operated on a highway between 1/2 hour after sunset and 1/2 hour before sunrise must have the following equipment:
    • a lighted lamp mounted on the front and under normal atmospheric conditions capable of displaying a white light visible at least 150 m in the direction the cycle is pointed;
    • a red reflector of a make or design approved by the superintendent for the purposes of this section;
    • a lighted lamp, mounted and visible to the rear, displaying a red light.
  • Despite any other provision of this Act or the regulations, a cycle may be equipped with a flashing red light that is of a make or design approved by the superintendent for the purposes of this section.
  • A cycle operated on a highway must be equipped with a brake that will enable the person operating the cycle to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level and clean pavement.
  • If an accident occurs by which a person or property is injured, directly or indirectly, owing to the presence or operation of a cycle on a highway or a sidewalk, the person in charge of the cycle must
    • remain at or immediately return to the scene of the accident,
    • render all possible assistance, and
    • give to anyone sustaining loss or injury, and to any peace officer who is present, his or her name and address and the name and address of the owner of the cycle, and if the cycle has been licensed and registered, the licence or registration number of the cycle.
  • If an accident involving the presence or operation of a cycle on a highway or a sidewalk, either directly or indirectly causes death or injury to a person or damage to property causing aggregate damage apparently exceeding $100, the person in charge of the cycle must immediately report the matter to a police officer or a person designated by the superintendent to receive those reports, and must furnish information, including that referred to in section 67 (8), respecting the accident as may be required by the police officer or person designated.
  • A report made under this section is without prejudice and is for the information of the Provincial or municipal police, and must not be open to public inspection.
  • The fact the report has been made is admissible in evidence solely to prove compliance with this section, and the report is admissible in evidence on the prosecution of any person for the offence of making a false statement in it.
  • Despite subsections (11) and (12), a peace officer may, when giving evidence in a proceeding, refer to a report prepared by him or her under subsection (9) or (10) to refresh his or her memory.

  • A person must not operate a cycle
    • on a highway without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway, or
    • on a sidewalk without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the sidewalk.
  • If a person is convicted of an offence under this Act in respect of his or her riding or operating a cycle, the court may, in addition to or in place of any penalty otherwise prescribed, order the cycle seized, and on the expiry of that period the person entitled to it may again have possession of the cycle.
  • For the purpose of seizing and impounding a cycle under an order made under subsection (15), a peace officer may enter any place or building in which the cycle is located.
  • A person operating a cycle on a highway must signify
    • a left turn by extending the person's left hand and arm horizontally from the cycle,
    • a right turn by doing either of the following:
    • extending the person's left hand and arm out and upward from the cycle so that the upper and lower parts of the arm are at right angles;
    • extending the person's right hand and arm horizontally from the cycle, and
  • a stop or decrease in speed by extending the person's left hand and arm out and down from the cycle.


Cycling regulations from Street and Traffic By-Law No. 2849


(City of Vancouver consolidated report Oct 18, 2011)
Driver must have hand on steering device

41. No person shall drive a vehicle without having at least one hand on the steering device, and no person shall operate a bicycle without having at least one hand on the handle bars.
Slow Moving Vehicles

59. The driver of every slow moving vehicle shall drive such vehicle as close as possible to the right hand edge or curb of any street unless it is impracticable to travel on such side. For the purpose of this section a bicycle shall be regarded at all times as a slow moving vehicle.
Bicycles

60. No person shall ride any bicycle upon any sidewalk except where posted by signs.
60A. No person shall ride a bicycle upon a street while wearing headphones, or any other manufactured device capable of transmitting sound, over or in close proximity to both ears, except that this prohibition shall not apply to the wearing of a device designed and worn for the purpose of improving the wearer's ability to hear sounds emanating from outside of the device.
60B. No person shall ride a bicycle upon a street unless the bicycle is equipped with a bell capable of being used as a warning.
60C. The various paths and ways shown and described by either a thick black solid line or a thick black dashed line on the plans attached to this Bylaw as Schedule C are, pursuant to Section 124(1) of the Motor Vehicle Act, hereby designated for the purposes of sections 60D and 60E.
60D. No person shall operate or ride as a passenger on a bicycle on any path or way shown on Schedule C unless the person is properly wearing a bicycle safety helmet that has been designated under or complies with the standards and specifications of the Motor Vehicle Act.
60E. No parent or guardian of a person under the age of 16 years shall authorize or knowingly permit the person to operate or ride as a passenger on a bicycle on any path or way shown on Schedule C unless the person is properly wearing a bicycle safety helmet that has been designated under or complies with the standards and specifications of the Motor Vehicle Act.
60F. A police officer may arrest without warrant any bicyclist whom the officer finds committing a breach of any provision of this by-law if such person fails to stop and state his or her proper name and address when so requested by the police officer.




And here is Mayor Moonbeam with his "peeps" from Critical Mass out for a ride in 2009. He is third from the left, hands on his hips and his helmet hanging on the handlebars.

Posted Image


Setting a an example , eh? No wonder Critical Mass thinks the law does not apply to them. They have been show this by Hizzonner.


No need to list the cyclist laws. Cyclists are above the law. This afternoon I stopped at a 4 way stop sign and lo and behold a cyclist appeared disregarding the 4 way stop. I was so tempted to run it over to teach it a lesson.
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#78 inane

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:46 AM

No need to list the cyclist laws. Cyclists are above the law. This afternoon I stopped at a 4 way stop sign and lo and behold a cyclist appeared disregarding the 4 way stop. I was so tempted to run it over to teach it a lesson.


Totally, I mean when was the last time you saw a driver break the rules of the road?? I mean it's not like we have thousands of crashes and hundreds of deaths and thousands of injuries and thousands of lawsuits and millions if not billions wasted on time lost, health care costs, maintenance etc etc etc. Right?

Edited by inane, 31 March 2013 - 06:46 AM.

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#79 Gustavo Fring

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:53 AM

Totally, I mean when was the last time you saw a driver break the rules of the road?? I mean it's not like we have thousands of crashes and hundreds of deaths and thousands of injuries and thousands of lawsuits and millions if not billions wasted on time lost, health care costs, maintenance etc etc etc. Right?


Deflect deflect deflect
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#80 Lulover88

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 11:11 AM

The cyclists act like they own the road ... our mayer is an idiot , and cars are necessary in a city with a poor public transit system ..

I feel much better now ..
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#81 theminister

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:03 PM

Deflect deflect deflect


Try again. This thread was never about bicycles. It's only about car users who think they have to pay too much for parking. That's it.

This is people saying, "Don't blame me for breaking the law. Look those people are breaking the law too!"

Pathetic.

Edited by theminister, 31 March 2013 - 12:04 PM.

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#82 inane

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

Deflect deflect deflect



I'm happy to stay on topic and talk about this fictional war. But you're not, you just want to rant. that's fine, but don't mistake your irritation for anything more than it is.

I've never understood the whole 'war' thing anyway. If more people walk, cycle, take transit, etc... that's just more space for those that do have to drive.

But like most in these discussions you don't want to talk about rational, logical issues and outcomes, you just want to piss and moan about that guy that cut you off and then somehow equate that with all cyclists. There are plenty of horrible, deadly drivers out there, where's the outrage for all the people that have been killed and lives ruined by crappy drivers? Surely if safety is your concern you would be much more interested in dealing with them wouldn't you?

Bad cyclists are bad, bad drivers are much much worse.

Edited by inane, 31 March 2013 - 12:17 PM.

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#83 theminister

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:19 PM

I'm happy to stay on topic and talk about this fictional war. But you're not, you just want to rant. that's fine, but don't mistake your irritation for anything more than it is.

I've never understood the whole 'war' thing anyway. If more people walk, cycle, take transit, etc... that's just more space for those that do have to drive.

But like most in these discussions you don't want to talk about rational, logical issues and outcomes, you just want to piss and moan about that guy that cut you off and then somehow equate that with all cyclists. There are plenty of horrible, deadly drivers out there, where's the outrage for all the people that have been killed and lives ruined by crappy drivers? Surely if safety is your concern you would be much more interested in dealing with them wouldn't you?


Exactly the point. There's only so much road, so much street parking in and around the DT core.

Would people prefer if parking was free but you could only get a permit to drive into the city twice a week?

Either way, people can't complain about lack of transit infrastructure and not pay for it somehow.
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#84 inane

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

http://straight.com/...test&pal=1&s=60
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#85 Wetcoaster

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:53 PM

Exactly the point. There's only so much road, so much street parking in and around the DT core.

Would people prefer if parking was free but you could only get a permit to drive into the city twice a week?

Either way, people can't complain about lack of transit infrastructure and not pay for it somehow.

However this $40 million take on parking is not earmarked for transit improvements - it goes in the City of Vancouver General Revenue fund.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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#86 theminister

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:54 PM

However this $40 million take on parking is not earmarked for transit improvements - it goes in the City of Vancouver General Revenue fund.


Of which much goes to City Works.
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#87 Wetcoaster

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

Of which much goes to City Works.

Source?
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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#88 theminister

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 01:12 PM

Source?


http://vancouver.ca/...ing-budget.aspx

Balancing the 2012 operating budget
Posted ImageThis year, the City faced an estimated budget shortfall of $52 million. These pressures were due to a number of factors related to a decline in revenues and increased costs.

With the objective of streamlining business processes and delivering services more efficiently for taxpayers, the City took the following approach to balancing the budget:

  • Ensure incremental funding is focused on priority programs
  • Achieve savings through productivity and transformation
  • Make strategic adjustments to existing programs and services
  • Introduce a property tax increase
Despite starting with a $52 million budget gap, the City was able to balance the operating budget by making several adjustments and efficiencies and will only require a 2.84 per cent property tax increase.




Of course, no. the Mayor is not using that revenue for his approved budget. In your world, those funds go directly towards his illegal War.
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#89 Wetcoaster

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 01:17 PM

http://vancouver.ca/...ing-budget.aspx





Of course, no. the Mayor is not using that revenue for his approved budget. In your world, those funds go directly towards his illegal War.

How do you know the parking money is not being used for other "priorty" projects. Proves nothing.

Now if the City says that those revenues specifically are dedicated to transit infrastructure in Vancouver then you may have an argument. As it stands you do not.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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#90 theminister

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 01:24 PM

How do you know the parking money is not being used for other "priorty" projects. Proves nothing.

Now if the City says that those revenues specifically are dedicated to transit infrastructure in Vancouver then you may have an argument. As it stands you do not.


No less than you who also has not provided objective facts about the use of general revenue. General revenue goes up due to these monies meaning we have more funds for our infrastructure much of which is roads and utilities.

If you don't like the budget you should have gone to the budget meeting.... if you are a resident of Vancouver. However, I gather you are not.
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