[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 7.0

[Canucks_Hockey_101]

Lets say that a few what ifs play out.

1. Phoenix relocates to Quebec

2. Mike Smith signs a contract with a team on the rise in NYI

3. Quebec owners decide to make a splash right off the bat to create some hype for the team.

4. Quebec decides that with over 20M in cap space, they can acquire some highly paid players with so many cap teams needing some cap space.

5. Their first order of business is to acquire a highly touted elite francophone goalie as well as a top 6 LW considering their only currently signed LW is the one and only Bissonette.

Could the New Nordiques be interested in all 3 of Luongo, Booth and Ballard?

[Noheart]

Lets say that a few what ifs play out.

1. Phoenix relocates to Quebec

2. Mike Smith signs a contract with a team on the rise in NYI

3. Quebec owners decide to make a splash right off the bat to create some hype for the team.

4. Quebec decides that with over 20M in cap space, they can acquire some highly paid players with so many cap teams needing some cap space.

5. Their first order of business is to acquire a highly touted elite francophone goalie as well as a top 6 LW considering their only currently signed LW is the one and only Bissonette.

Could the New Nordiques be interested in all 3 of Luongo, Booth and Ballard?

[Boudrias]

I'd like to see a San Jose rematch. Would love to see Joe go down again at the hands of the Canucks.

[Canuck Surfer]

I'm not sure your wrong (there is a lot of talent on that blue line);but is Weaver underated? If a shut down defender is 5'10" & 180 lbs he better have foot speed & the ability to move the puck (ala Tanev...). My take is he does marvelously well without great physical tools & skills. But a bottom line is he does not have great tools & skills. The real problem, aside from Petrovic & Jovo playing a combined 10 games, is that coaching found no way to shelter their young core with solid systems.

Last year players (Weiss, Jovo & Versteeg) provided both some pop & veteran experience regarding how to play to the line up. With all their injuries this year they played youth & let them run & gun which was bound to be a disaster. This reflects in their NHL high 164 goals against. AV, for example, but also Randy Carlisle, Barry Trotz etc., would never have allowed that style of play. They should have found a way to slow down the play, and make better use of their size; Kuba, Goodbranson & Kulikov are 225, 210 & 205 lbs respectively.

Hell; AV brought us back to 2007 this year, slowing the game to a crawl so superior puck skills did not defeat us until the return of Kesler & appearnce of Roy. Carlisle showed how to get a lot more from what was supposed to be a talented blue line this year versus last.

So part of defensive problem in Florida is coaching. And next year they will look to add Petrovic to the core, so they could start next season with three key defenders 22 years or younger? If it were me, I would be upgrading Weaver, the coach and the goalie to back them up!

The Oilers I will discuss another day (sorry, gotta get to work).

I agree with the gist of what you're saying, particularly the last paragraph - I think there are plenty of potential markets where Luo could make sense - but I think there are a couple of things that you've overlooked.

"But leaving them without goaltending, quality defence and influential veterans is suicide."

The Panthers could use Luo, but to suggest that they lack quality defensemen....

Garrison was a huge loss for them, but Campbell and Kuba are serious quality veteran blueliners (Tallon wasted no time going out and getting Kuba - I think their numbers this year are misleading). Weaver is an under-rated shutdown/depth defenseman, (and who doesn't love Jovo?), but when it comes to the quality of their youth on the blueline - Kulikov, Gudbranson, Robak, Petrovic, Matheson, even Brennan... there's a whole lot of talent there (enough that they could dump Ellerby) - Florida's blueline isn't lacking by any stretch of the imagination. A lot of teams would like to have their problems. They had an awful season - unbelievable injuries - but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them back around the 3rd seed again next year (particularly if they acquire Luo).

Edmonton's goaltending hasn't been nearly as bad as is quite often suggested - Dubnyk has a very respectable .921 sv% and the Bulin has been Khabiing another solid year...

[oldnews]

I'm not sure your wrong (there is a lot of talent on that blue line);but is Weaver underated? If a shut down defender is 5'10" & 180 lbs he better have foot speed & the ability to move the puck (ala Tanev...). My take is he does marvelously well without great physical tools & skills. But a bottom line is he does not have great tools & skills. The real problem, aside from Petrovic & Jovo playing a combined 10 games, is that coaching found no way to shelter their young core with solid systems.

Last year players (Weiss, Jovo & Versteeg) provided both some pop & veteran experience regarding how to play to the line up. With all their injuries this year they played youth & let them run & gun which was bound to be a disaster. This reflects in their NHL high 164 goals against. AV, for example, but also Randy Carlisle, Barry Trotz etc., would never have allowed that style of play. They should have found a way to slow down the play, and make better use of their size; Kuba, Goodbranson & Kulikov are 225, 210 & 205 lbs respectively.

Hell; AV brought us back to 2007 this year, slowing the game to a crawl so superior puck skills did not defeat us until the return of Kesler & appearnce of Roy. Carlisle showed how to get a lot more from what was supposed to be a talented blue line this year versus last.

So part of defensive problem in Florida is coaching. And next year they will look to add Petrovic to the core, so they could start next season with three key defenders 22 years or younger? If it were me, I would be upgrading Weaver, the coach and the goalie to back them up!

The Oilers I will discuss another day (sorry, gotta get to work).

[theminister]

You forgot Seth Jones. He'll be an ok addition to Florida's D.

/ Y'all are wasting valuable posts in this thread. We only have until page 100 and this is lucky number 7. We need to make this thread last another 2.5 months.

[oldnews]

You forgot Seth Jones. He'll be an ok addition to Florida's D.

/ Y'all are wasting valuable posts in this thread. We only have until page 100 and this is lucky number 7. We need to make this thread last another 2.5 months.

[theminister]

Yeah - they're certainly in the pole position where the lottery is concerned.

Anyhow, that's a sensible point you raise, but we can be an irrepressible bunch. Your rationality in this context might be like attempting to herd cats. If need be, we might just have to take our chances on Crazy 8... lucky 7 was looking promising, but really lost a little lustre. Crazy 8 - just the sound of that suggests that a combination of a Bryz buyout, Garth Snow at the draft, Mike Holmgren's lack of hestitation, the pressure on Tallon to get back into contention, the Leafs sheer disappointment with their utter collapse after waiting sooooo looooong ...

I'm just glad we have months more of this to look forward to...and we may just need Luo in the meantime.

[Ghostsof1915]

There are a host of problems with Luongo. Most of all that crazy contract. Secondly, the cap is going down to $64 million.

Those two alone hurt. So lets look at the usual (?) suspects:

Florida: Before RFA's etc. they are already at $51 million. 11 forwards, 7 d-men and, 1 goalie. That's $13 million for 1-2 forwards, and 1 goalie. Things that could happen, Jovo could retire if his injury doesn't heal. Make a package deal of Edler and Luongo, it might work?

Toronto: I'm not sure they are even in the mix with all that happened at the deadline. However if their goaltending lets them down in the playoffs, maybe? One thing that does fit is the Laffs have TONS of cap space. Almost $20 million. But Nonis wants to look good to both Rogers/Bell ownership so he wants to get Luongo for nothing. A first round sweep with bad goaltending might change his tune.

Philadelphia: Cap troubles? Yup! Buying out Bryz gives them around $2.5 million cap space. So Philly would have to add roster players to make it work. Edler, Luongo, our 1st rounder in 2013 for Steve Mason and the Schenn Brothers just fits. Philly probably wouldn't want to give that much up, but that would be a win-win for both clubs.

New Jersey: Hypothetical, if Brodeur retires. Their GM has given long term contracts in the past. They have a ton of cap space next year. Henrique and Larsson for Luongo and Schroeder, and Tommernes and a pick?

Tampa doesn't seem likely as they picked up Ben Bishop.

Washington: $8 million cap space. Would draft picks from the Capitals be a better choice? Johansson isn't bad, but he's not exactly physical. The rights to Alzner, a 1st round draft pick and a 2nd round pick?

Regardless of what happens. I think Gillis has his hands full, and it might mean the difference between keeping his job, and losing it. I don't think the ownership of the Canucks would pay too kindly to Gillis wasting a buyout on Luongo and getting nothing in return other than cap space.

[Canuck Surfer]

That is your opinion. 164 goals against, and the leagues worst record with what you describe as a talented defensive crew indicate otherwise. That's 15 goals more than the next poorest team. Florida also has lots of speedy forwards, plus guys with reasonable physical ability, one example being Mathias. They should be able to craft match ups that don't see them get hammered so badly. Respectfully, it clearly points to coaching and style of play. As for Weaver, his skill set, H &W are fine if he is on a depth pairing, or matched (sheltered) with a 220 lb stud (such as Garrison). Otherwise opposing coaches will simply circle his name on their game plan. They look at line-ups for opportunities they can exploit (see Sutter targeting Tanev on our top pairing game one last year) not just advanced statistics. Guys like Weaver manage to hang out on teams like Florida, not cup contenders.

Your "bottom line" is simply wrong. Coaching not sheltering their young players was not the problem - coach not having half his roster at any given time - that was the problem this season. Otherwise, they were a three seed the year before.

Simple answer. Yes. Weaver is under-rated (but not in Florida). Case in point - the only thing you appear to know about him are the H and W figures. He played beside Garrison in his rookie season - they were the shutdown pairing. They both had very similar underlying numbers - low ozone starts, high quality of competition, and regardless, neutral corsi underlying numbers on not a very good team.

Weaver's size is not really indicative of much. The Panthers also have a fairly talented young shutdown blueliner - Gudbranson - who, ironically, dislocated his shoulder...

Regardless, Florida has a great deal of talent and balance on their blueline - again - Campbell, Kuba, Weaver, Jovanovski as veterans, Kulikov is far beyond his years, and, Gudbranson, Robak, Petrovic, Matheson, and Brennan is a lot of talented youth. Upgrading their blueline is not their priority.

[Boudrias]

That is your opinion. 164 goals against, and the leagues worst record with what you describe as a talented defensive crew indicate otherwise. That's 15 goals more than the next poorest team. Florida also has lots of speedy forwards, plus guys with reasonable physical ability, one example being Mathias. They should be able to craft match ups that don't see them get hammered so badly. Respectfully, it clearly points to coaching and style of play. As for Weaver, his skill set, H &W are fine if he is on a depth pairing, or matched (sheltered) with a 220 lb stud (such as Garrison). Otherwise opposing coaches will simply circle his name on their game plan. They look at line-ups for opportunities they can exploit (see Sutter targeting Tanev on our top pairing game one last year) not just advanced statistics. Guys like Weaver manage to hang out on teams like Florida, not cup contenders.

[canucks_dynasty]

A trade wil Florida makes so much more sense. Theodore and Clemmensen aren't cutting it. Markstrom still needs more time to develop (probably 2-3yrs away). Luongo would make them soooooo much better.

Luongo for Matthias + 2nd 2013

Matthias can be Vancouver's 3C. He's perfect for AV. A young grinding checking bottom 6 forward. Then finally we can stop looking for a 3C and look at fixing other areas.

Florida's 2nd 2013 is like a late 1st (ie. 31st) and it's supposed to be a deep draft.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

A trade wil Florida makes so much more sense. Theodore and Clemmensen aren't cutting it. Markstrom still needs more time to develop (probably 2-3yrs away). Luongo would make them soooooo much better.

Luongo for Matthias + 2nd 2013

Matthias can be Vancouver's 3C. He's perfect for AV. A young grinding checking bottom 6 forward. Then finally we can stop looking for a 3C and look at fixing other areas.

Florida's 2nd 2013 is like a late 1st (ie. 31st) and it's supposed to be a deep draft.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

There are a host of problems with Luongo. Most of all that crazy contract. Secondly, the cap is going down to $64 million.

Those two alone hurt. So lets look at the usual (?) suspects:

Florida: Before RFA's etc. they are already at $51 million. 11 forwards, 7 d-men and, 1 goalie. That's $13 million for 1-2 forwards, and 1 goalie. Things that could happen, Jovo could retire if his injury doesn't heal. Make a package deal of Edler and Luongo, it might work?

I think the best option, they will have a top 3 draft pick this year and a huge pool, Still gillis has no bargaining power without a bidding war, if it comes down to it, I only expect a prospect coming back.

Toronto: I'm not sure they are even in the mix with all that happened at the deadline. However if their goaltending lets them down in the playoffs, maybe? One thing that does fit is the Laffs have TONS of cap space. Almost $20 million. But Nonis wants to look good to both Rogers/Bell ownership so he wants to get Luongo for nothing. A first round sweep with bad goaltending might change his tune.

Agreed

Philadelphia: Cap troubles? Yup! Buying out Bryz gives them around $2.5 million cap space. So Philly would have to add roster players to make it work. Edler, Luongo, our 1st rounder in 2013 for Steve Mason and the Schenn Brothers just fits. Philly probably wouldn't want to give that much up, but that would be a win-win for both clubs.

http://www.the700level.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/news/Paul-Holmgren-Says-There-Are-No-Plans-fo?blockID=838607

That removes them.

New Jersey: Hypothetical, if Brodeur retires. Their GM has given long term contracts in the past. They have a ton of cap space next year. Henrique and Larsson for Luongo and Schroeder, and Tommernes and a pick?

Possible, could make sense

Tampa doesn't seem likely as they picked up Ben Bishop.

Agreed, although they would make a good fit, steve Y was Executive Director on the mens 2010 team and doesn't want Luongo. unfortunaty shows how much the team needed Luongo to win the gold.

Washington: $8 million cap space. Would draft picks from the Capitals be a better choice? Johansson isn't bad, but he's not exactly physical. The rights to Alzner, a 1st round draft pick and a 2nd round pick?

They just traded a top prospect and have a young goalie in holtby who been great after a terrible first 10 games. If he can play well in plays, it'll look like they've found their new starter for years to come, plus he's cheap.

Regardless of what happens. I think Gillis has his hands full, and it might mean the difference between keeping his job, and losing it. I don't think the ownership of the Canucks would pay too kindly to Gillis wasting a buyout on Luongo and getting nothing in return other than cap space.

Agreed 100%, time is ticking

[The Bookie]

Long Island wouldn't be a bad spot too. Hopefully with them making the playoffs, Lu wouldn't mind waiving.

[wai_lai416]

lol with so many goalies available this summer.. doubt anyone will even make an offer to the canucks without us begging them to take him along with some of the money..

[oldnews]

That is your opinion. 164 goals against, and the leagues worst record with what you describe as a talented defensive crew indicate otherwise. That's 15 goals more than the next poorest team. Florida also has lots of speedy forwards, plus guys with reasonable physical ability, one example being Mathias. . Respectfully, it clearly points to coaching and style of play. As for Weaver, his skill set, H &W are fine if he is on a depth pairing, or matched (sheltered) with a 220 lb stud (such as Garrison). Otherwise opposing coaches will simply circle his name on their game plan. They look at line-ups for opportunities they can exploit (see Sutter targeting Tanev on our top pairing game one last year) not just advanced statistics. Guys like Weaver manage to hang out on teams like Florida, not cup contenders.

[oldnews]

Indeed. I've been championing the Isles as a destination for awhile now. Incidentally here's a quote from none other than Mr. G. Bettman from Newsday today:

"There are incredibly exciting things going on in Brooklyn," he said. "You see what has been accomplished with the opening of the Barclays Center and the relocation of the Nets. The Islanders are telling me that they're getting extraordinarily strong feedback from their fans and their season ticket holders who are going to make the move with them and there's a great deal of excitement about the fact that the team is finally getting a first-class facility to play in.

"If you talked to [general manager] Garth Snow and Charles Wang, they will tell you that their ability to get free agents was impacted by the fact that why would you want to play in that arena 41 times a year when you can go to other places."

http://www.newsday.c...ible-1.5146601?

[Gollumpus]

New Jersey: Hypothetical, if Brodeur retires. Their GM has given long term contracts in the past. They have a ton of cap space next year. Henrique and Larsson for Luongo and Schroeder, and Tommernes and a pick?

Tampa doesn't seem likely as they picked up Ben Bishop.

[oldnews]

lol with so many goalies available this summer.. doubt anyone will even make an offer to the canucks without us begging them to take him along with some of the money..