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CDC Armchair experts: Why can't the Canucks score?


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#121 Tony Romo

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:00 PM

Wait ....

In our Cup run,Torres was our only hot/cold player? That means that Higgins, Hansen, and Raymond would NOT have been streaky then. Kinda defeats your argument.

On our 5 on 5 play, the answer is obvious. We have players centring three lines that don't scare anyone.

As for our PP, the Sedins are overpassing. Our confidence is shot since we can't even set up many times. We miss Kesler and Salo. I'm hoping Garrison improves things with more time on it, but who knows.

What I meant was that we have too many hot/cold players in our top 6 right now

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#122 Bananas

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:05 PM

What I meant was that we have too many hot/cold players in our top 6 right now


You mean Higgins, Hansen, and Raymond?

...and Torres wasn't in our top 6.

Edited by Joe_Shmo, 31 March 2013 - 06:09 PM.

Hey CDC! Remember this!?

http://forum.canucks...in-this-change/

#123 Tony Romo

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:08 PM

You mean Higgins, Hansen, and Raymond?


Yes sir.....it made more sense in my head

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#124 Ghostsof1915

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:28 PM

The team is dependant way too much on the twins. Opposing teams understand just keep the Sedin's to the outside and they can't score, because sadly this year they won't shoot. Burrows doesn't seem to be crashing the net creating space like he used to.

Schroeder, Higgins, Hansen, and Raymond are the only other threats and they aren't consistent. The rest of the forwards outside of Lapierre are just plugs who can't even score on an open net. The Canucks are lacking speed and skill as well as size. Kassian has been effective at times, but he's young and learning, so it will take a while for him and some younger players to get into the swing of things.

Our defense is a quandary as well. Edler is talented but I think he still has a lingering back issue which is why he's not as physical or taking shots. Hamhuis, does take shots, but that's not really his primary thing. Garrison has a cannon but he has no accuracy or he can't get into a clear lane to shoot from. Tanev will shoot, but he's a defensive specialist so I'm ok with whatever he can provide. We have a revolving door on #6 D-man, and of all of them, at least Barker seems not too bad. Ballard at times is fine, but he's playing scared because he doesn't want to get benched. Bieksa, well he's always up and down, and he seems a little lost without Hamhuis as his partner.

In short we're suffering from injuries and a lack of practise time. But even a healthy Booth and Kesler, we need to get younger, faster, bigger, and more skilled. That's a tall order for our scouts at the draft positions we find ourselves in.

In more than a few games this year, the Canucks look slow, disorganized, and unenthused as a group. Not a good combination when you're trying to win games.

Don't even get me started on the power play.

Edited by Ghostsof1915, 31 March 2013 - 06:29 PM.

GO CANUCKS GO!
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#125 CanadianRugby

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:36 PM

That's pretty questionable. The Sedins numbers this season 5 on 5 have been more or less the same as their numbers in the much praised 2010/2011 season. Their compelte lack of powerplay scoring almost completely accounts for the difference in total numbers. The most plausible explanation therefore is that there's nothing wrong with the Sedins. It's the powerplay. Get it going and they'll return to form.
The Sedins aren't failing because of the power play. The power play is failing because of the Sedins not scoring on it.


Booth has actually put up slightly better numbers than Sammy since the trade. Both guys have been crippled by injuries this season but when healthy, there's really no basis to say Booth is any worse of a player.
True. Booth vs Sammy now is comparable. I'm saying Booth isn't as good as Sammy was when he scored 33 goals for us.


A more apt comparison would probably be...

Salo vs Garrison...a matchup Garrison wins hands down. He's tougher, more durable, and better defensively. He actually puts his shot on net too.
Salo usually had about 25+ points in 60 games played for us. Garrison has had one good season, and it's not for the Canucks. How many PP goals does Garrison have for us? Only thing he's better at is toughness which you could say for any D in the league. And if you say he actually puts his shots on net then you're probably talking about a different Garrison.

Torres vs Kassian...again, clearly an improvement. He's more skilled and has superior physical tools. Both are streaky scorers but I'd still take Kassian.

Torres is better offensively, defensively and is 10X better hitter. Only thing Kassian has is he's a better fighter and gets paid less.

Erhoff vs Tanev...admittedly, we haven't truly replaced Erhoff with Tanev since they're completely opposite players and Tanev was with the team in 2011. Still, Tanev is much, much better now. He was a great depth option in 2011 but now he's rounded into a real top 4 D man that can play big minutes against even top competiton. Again, Tanev and Erhoff bring completely opposite skill sets but still, I don't think you can say one is "worse" than the other.

I never compared these two, I said Erhoff was better than Garrison is. But ok, Erhoff was better for us than Garrison and Tanev put together. He was a main reason why our PP was the best in the league.

There are other areas where this team has improved as well. Hanses has also developed a lot. He's much more of a real scoring threat than he was in 2011. We've got a better 4th line now as well. So no, you're wrong. The Canucks aren't really any worse in terms of tallent, at least when healthy.

Hansen and Tanev have improved, yes. But the rest of the team is a shadow of its former self. So no, you're wrong. But there are a lot of delusional Canuck fans out there that still associate Kassian and our 4th line with talent. I guess it's only a matter of time before the Canucks "wake up" right?


Edited by CanadianRugby, 31 March 2013 - 06:40 PM.


#126 Gman

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:16 PM

Too busy defending the 0-4 lead.
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#127 Grapefruits

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:40 PM

anyone here think coaching is the problem?


yes!

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#128 wizardB

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:41 PM

NEW COACH for a start!!

#129 ikillchicken

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:55 PM

The Sedins aren't failing because of the power play. The power play is failing because of the Sedins not scoring on it.


That's highly implausible. The idea that the Sedins have declined is tenuous to begin with. They're only 31 which is when most players are in their prime and their game has never been based on the kind of sheer physical ability that tends to go with age. The only real support for such a claim is the fact that their numbers are down. But if that's your only support it just begs the question: Isn't there a simpler explanation? And obviously there is. The power play is struggling. Of course, a big part of that is the Sedins struggling...but just on the PP. Its not that they just "don't have it" anymore. I mean, think about it. You're suggesting that the Sedins play has totally faltered on the PP but not at all 5v5. How does that make any sense at all? If the Sedins just aren't as good as they used to be, wouldn't both falter? Especially when you realize that they're playing without Kesler, a huge part of their past PP success, it becomes obvious that the Sedins are fine. We just need to get the PP going.

True. Booth vs Sammy now is comparable. I'm saying Booth isn't as good as Sammy was when he scored 33 goals for us.


Booth is also a former 30 goal scorer. If he could just stay healthy I think he'll get back on form. The presumption that Booth sucks now is baseless. We've barely seen the guy play.

Salo usually had about 25+ points in 60 games played for us. Garrison has had one good season, and it's not for the Canucks. How many PP goals does Garrison have for us? Only thing he's better at is toughness which you could say for any D in the league. And if you say he actually puts his shots on net then you're probably talking about a different Garrison.



So? Garisson is a late bloomer but I fail to see how that matters. It's the player he is now that counts. He's also much younger than Sami. And for the record, Garrison has only been playing on the first PP unit for a couple weeks and despite this already has a goal. He also has 4 more in regulation putting him on pace for about 12. Salo was a good player but face facts. Garrison is basically a similar but slightly better version of him.

I never compared these two, I said Erhoff was better than Garrison is. But ok, Erhoff was better for us than Garrison and Tanev put together. He was a main reason why our PP was the best in the league.


Nonsense. Erhoff was defensively unreliable. You're right that he helped the PP. Without him, our PP will probably never be quite as good as it was. But Tanev blows him away as a defensive player. It's a tradeoff for sure but we've got no shortage of scoring Ds even without Erhoff so we can compensate there. And what Tanev brings in just as valuable in shoring up our defensive game. And frankly, I'll take a strong defense in the playoffs over an improved PP any day.

Torres is better offensively, defensively and is 10X better hitter. Only thing Kassian has is he's a better fighter and gets paid less.


Please. Torres chipped in with some nice goals ocasionally but disapears for long streaks. Kassian is a vastly more skilled player that Torres ever was even if you choose to turn a blind eye to it. He looked great with the Sedins. Give him a chance to play with a decent center and he'll get going again. And Torres hits were flashy but the guy was downright reckless. He often got into penalty trouble or even suspended. Kassian is far more reliable. And in any case, we're talking about a third line winger, a fairly minor piece. At worst, this is easilly compensated for by Hansen's growth.

I guess it's only a matter of time before the Canucks "wake up" right?



Get healthy is a better way to put it. We've been without one of our best players all season. Although admittedly since Malhotra isn't coming back, we should also add another center. An assistant coaching change might be necessary to get the PP going too. Although Kesler might just take care of that too. In any case, we're dealing with fixable problems. This idea that they're just not very good anymore is simply comical.

Edited by ikillchicken, 31 March 2013 - 09:56 PM.


#130 Christophe

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:38 PM

No heart. Seems like they don't give a crap any more, no motivation to do anything. Pretty much playing for a pay cheque.

And obviously nobody offensive. Sedins can set up plays, and tap ins. But other than that, we don't have any snipers. Closest thing is Raymond, and he's hit and miss most games.

#131 j.olofsson

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 06:17 AM

Well, we all got what we wanted. We got bigger and tougher. Did anyone really expect more goals from this?

Heres to hoping it will pay off in the playoffs.

#132 Dogbyte

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:36 AM

Because we have an abundance of third liners with little top end skill and our two superstars are incapable of shouldering the load on seperate lines.

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#133 FinishEveryCheck

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:01 AM

Well, we all got what we wanted. We got bigger and tougher. Did anyone really expect more goals from this?

Heres to hoping it will pay off in the playoffs.



Bigger and tougher would be adding Clowe and Ott within the next 48

#134 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:03 AM

We need to get someone like Naslund. A great sniper who could pick a spot and score. We don't really have that. This season has been a tough one. A lot of players have not played like they are supposed to, I just hope they can get back on track next game. Forget about the Oilers lets focus on the next one.


Yeah, let's just get a guy that will lead the team in scoring for like ten years in a row, finish top five league wide in scoring and in the all star team. Lets get him, I hear those kind of guys cost like a third round pick and a B-level prospect.

#135 canacks1970

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:55 AM

Very true. Well put.


I totally understand what you and Raph been saying ! The only problem would be if we did offer the money that Erhoff wanted how much cap would we actually have going into next year since our offense has been drying up.. If 5 million wasn't good enough to keep Erhoff here then how much since the cap is going down? The problem of keeping Salo was a 50/50. Since he's been injured most of his time here. Had Mike decided to sign him and he been injured would you be calling for Gillis 's head for signing an aging player past his prime and taking up cap space?
Imo Newell Brown needs to get his butt out of the you know where. Every team has picked up on our power play. Bowness needs to tighten the Dmen out there. The only reason our D looked so good last year was because of our steller goaltending from Loungo and Schnieder.

#136 clutesi

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:58 AM

2 of whom are not legitimate top 6 forwards.

I think Booth and Kassian are top six, and Kess is still an all star until he proves he isn't, it's about balance, "legitimate" is relative.

#137 etsen3

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:47 AM

Pinizzotto, Ebbett, Sestito, Weise, Kassian, Gordon, Lapierre, Ballard, Alberts....
Usually you only want a few of these type of guys on your team. We've got two full lines devoid of talent.


Maybe a bit of an exaggeration, you do realize that not all of these guys play at once right? However you're right that we're missing depth.




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