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What are your most hated coaching decisions in AV's tenure?

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#31 GoaltenderInterference

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 11:50 PM

Keith Ballard.
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#32 Rypien37

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 12:43 AM

Too much to list.
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#33 Noheart

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 12:56 AM

The only think I really hate is the no time outs when we are getting rocked.
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#34 Ohnoeszz

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:10 AM

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1. Not fighting tooth and nail with Gillis to keep Raymond, Kesler, and Grabner together. I still think if that line had been kept together we wouldn't be talking about a need for a 2nd liner right now. I blame Gillis a lot for moving Grabner (his absolute worst move in an otherwise excellent tenure) but I think AVs input on players matters a lot. I think they mistakenly treated Grabner and Raymond as if one made the other redundant.

2. Ballard. I think it was a poor move by Gillis to bring him in - a mistake in scouting, not recognizing his skillset - but once he was here the coaching staff made no attempt to make his puck-rushing skills viable. They could have added a couple breakout plays to compliment his ability and they never did. This more than anything else made me think AV is stuck in his ways. Though I think in general "his ways" are smart (his system is one of the leagues best) he is the opposite of versatile and he tends to be slow to adjust.

3. Sitting on leads. I abhor having your players play percentages instead of hockey. It takes them out of their game and it makes the team satisfied to play a defensive game, often causing them to miss opportunities to hem the other team in their own zone. Time on attack is the most effective defense and it doesn't happen when you aren't attacking.

4. He did not seem to like Shirokov at all. He really almost seemed pissed when he scored, as if he hated the fact that a goal could justify the winger's porous defensive game. Shirokov looked dangerous when he got a chance. He did things out of the norm and he got effective shots on net. I think this was another example of being too set in his ways, where he couldn't deal with a player who didn't fit his idea of hockey.

5. The Hodgson back fiasco. I hate it when coaches try to demand toughness as if they know a damn thing about their player's body.

As far as Kassian goes, I fully support his decision to play him in the bottom 6. Kassian is always going to be able to go to the soft areas of the defense, establish himself with his size and use his hands to finish. Its what he's best at. The Sedins are always going to be able to use his puck protection skills on the boards to create time and space for their brilliant passing plays. Once we saw that the obvious worked we needed to address the gaping holes in Kassian's game for the sake of his and the team's future.

He was clueless at times in his own zone at the beginning of the season. He wasn't moving his feet enough all over the ice. These things were glossed over by the goals and he was never going to develop to his potential in these areas while playing a possession game with the Sedins and getting offensive zone starts. He has improved by leaps and bounds in his defensive positioning. He still is not as active defensively as you want but that can take some time as a skilled power forward. He can be moved up to the top line at any time it is needed. I will blame AV if Kassian isn't used as a 1st liner at times in the playoffs to mix things up or counter certain matchups.

I can't think of much else to complain about. I love the PK coaching using two forwards against the 5-3. I don't know if that was his idea, but he at least okay'd it. I liked putting Edler on the right side as I think it forces him to diversify his skating agility (I think this move was way-layed by back issues). I love the use of Tanev throughout the playoffs, getting shutdown minutes at times and PK time. I love the activated defenseman system that helps our time on attack. I like our aggressive breakout, though I wish we would vary it more often, occasionally using our forwards conservatively building a slower breakout against teams with a good sense of how to fore-check our style.

I think AV's good far outweighs his bad, but I'm ambivalent to a coaching change because I think with a change you still get to keep a lot of his good work for some time, while adding new twists. I wouldn't want a coach to come in with a whole new system but I'd like to see someone with a different vision tinker around and make us a less predictable team.
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#35 canacks1970

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:21 AM

1) Leaving Luongo in for all 8 goals in Boston, essentially destroying his confidence
2) His management of Ballard
3) Taking Kassian off the Sedin line while he was producing


Sorry Stamkos but that one was Lui fault. A.V wanted to pull him after the second period. But Loungo wanted to stay in. If luongo confidence was really destroyed then he shouldn't have had a great game 5. But I'll agree with the rest.
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#36 the grinder

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:28 AM

being unprepared for the la kings series , with d sedin out with a concussion av had weeks to think of some sort of back up plan to replace sedin, instead of hoping he would come back and save the canucks , and av responce was i was hoping sedin would come back sooner and didnt know he was going to be out longer what a crock management should of fired him after that series everyone knows you dont come to work un prepared
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#37 KeslerBEAST

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:09 AM

AV absolutely hates one way offensive players if they aren't the sedins because he would much rather give sedins all the offensive starts and have 3 lines play out of the defensive zone. Makes it kind of hard for any young players drafted for offense to showcase their offensive skill because they always start in the D zone and that's probably the worst aspect of their game which is sort of the case with schoeder but he's alright defensively. Hodgson was LUCKY to get any offensive starts and that was only to increase his trade value. Not many players are like kesler and start as shutdown centers and become 2 way centers, most are drafted for offense and learn their defensive game along the way but AV seems to think everyone should be selke calibre or else 4th line you go.
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#38 CANUCK-EXPRESS

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:11 AM

Probably not starting Cory in Game 4 or Game 6 against Boston.

agree to this 100%
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#39 BedBeats™2.0

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:19 AM

Probably not starting Cory in Game 4 or Game 6 against Boston.


Most of these posts are pure imagined myths.

But this is one that has weight and substance.

Schnieds would have shined in his home state.

Wouldnt have mattered. The Canucks were so banged up and Thomas was playing like a freak.
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#40 Baggins

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:46 AM

Managing Cody Hodgson.


Don't think it was in AV's power to stop Cody's agent and daddy from harping on Gillis over the phone.
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#41 Bodee

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:54 AM

He tends to "tinker" with the lines too much for me when what I think is required is more practice and honing of the lines who have proved themselves in the past.

In his defence though, I think he does this because he has a GM who has been asleep at the wheel for over 2 years.
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#42 Bodee

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:58 AM

being unprepared for the la kings series , with d sedin out with a concussion av had weeks to think of some sort of back up plan to replace sedin, instead of hoping he would come back and save the canucks , and av responce was i was hoping sedin would come back sooner and didnt know he was going to be out longer what a crock management should of fired him after that series everyone knows you dont come to work un prepared


Well if MG hadn't left him so bare (and he is still doing it) maybe he could have slotted in a workable alternative............I mean, we are the Canucks and we get excited about Bitz on the 1st line............would ANY OTHER ELITE TEAM have to resort to crap like that? MG is a disgrace in the way he has failed to re-arm this team since the Boston series.

Edited by Bodee, 01 April 2013 - 03:58 AM.

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#43 Baggins

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:15 AM

being unprepared for the la kings series , with d sedin out with a concussion av had weeks to think of some sort of back up plan to replace sedin, instead of hoping he would come back and save the canucks , and av responce was i was hoping sedin would come back sooner and didnt know he was going to be out longer what a crock management should of fired him after that series everyone knows you dont come to work un prepared


Initially Sedin was supposed to be back for the playoffs. It's called a setback. And really what was AV going to do differently? Wave a magic wand at Booth and Raymond to make them produce? Or maybe "lay hands" on Kesler and heal him? Honestly, with no second line we weren't going deep into the playoffs regardless.
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#44 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:26 AM

Initially Sedin was supposed to be back for the playoffs. It's called a setback. And really what was AV going to do differently? Wave a magic wand at Booth and Raymond to make them produce? Or maybe "lay hands" on Kesler and heal him? Honestly, with no second line we weren't going deep into the playoffs regardless.


None of this excuses anything. They still didnt look ready to play.

Edited by Red Light Racicot, 01 April 2013 - 04:31 AM.

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#45 Baggins

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:46 AM

AV absolutely hates one way offensive players if they aren't the sedins because he would much rather give sedins all the offensive starts and have 3 lines play out of the defensive zone. Makes it kind of hard for any young players drafted for offense to showcase their offensive skill because they always start in the D zone and that's probably the worst aspect of their game which is sort of the case with schoeder but he's alright defensively. Hodgson was LUCKY to get any offensive starts and that was only to increase his trade value. Not many players are like kesler and start as shutdown centers and become 2 way centers, most are drafted for offense and learn their defensive game along the way but AV seems to think everyone should be selke calibre or else 4th line you go.


The problem with the one way offensive players is, if they're not scoring (and everybody has slumps) they're hurting more than helping. What's the point in scoring a goal if you're on the ice for two? A skilled two way player is at least helping to keep the puck out of his own net when in a scoring slump. Two way play is something Scottie Bowman insisted on and there isn't a more successful coach. He was even willing to move Yzerman over his one way play despite being a 50 goal scorer. Yzerman was even cut from a Canada Cup team because he was a floater without the puck. He did come around though and finally bought into the two way game under Bowman. He became a far better player as a result.
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#46 brewdog

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 05:34 AM

Probably not starting Cory in Game 4 or Game 6 against Boston.


Hugely agree with you. I'm a big AV supporter, but I really wanted to see Cory play in Boston; especially in Game 6.
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#47 Ride the red Pony

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:41 AM

Initially Sedin was supposed to be back for the playoffs. It's called a setback. And really what was AV going to do differently? Wave a magic wand at Booth and Raymond to make them produce? Or maybe "lay hands" on Kesler and heal him? Honestly, with no second line we weren't going deep into the playoffs regardless.


This quote= priceless, laughed my a$$ off, great quote.

I guess I wouldn't say that there is anything I "hate" per say, but a few head scratchers, and I will keep them from the recent past.

One that bothered me, and I don't believe anyone has touched on, and could be perceived as a nothing moment was AV's "Youtube" moment against Dallas, In my view showed something of AV's leadership, was when Fiddler was making fun of Bieksa and AV was laughing uncontrollablely almost to the point of having to leave the bench, I could tell Juice was not impressed by Fiddlers antic's and rightly so, Juice is a proud man, and one to have a good time play a few jokes as well, but in the heat of the battle, well not so sure this was a time Juice would have chosen for it, and then to top it all off you have your leader yucking it up behind you creating a nice "youtube" moment for himself just doesn't sit right with me.

I find that side of AV refreshing to a point, but in my eyes this wasn't the time or place, for me this was a telling moment for leadership.

The next head scratcher for me was very recent and that would be the simple timeout call in the Oil game, leaving Lou in for 8 goals against, was another one that left me asking "why".
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#48 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:04 AM

One that bothered me, and I don't believe anyone has touched on, and could be perceived as a nothing moment was AV's "Youtube" moment against Dallas, In my view showed something of AV's leadership, was when Fiddler was making fun of Bieksa and AV was laughing uncontrollablely almost to the point of having to leave the bench, I could tell Juice was not impressed by Fiddlers antic's and rightly so, Juice is a proud man, and one to have a good time play a few jokes as well, but in the heat of the battle, well not so sure this was a time Juice would have chosen for it, and then to top it all off you have your leader yucking it up behind you creating a nice "youtube" moment for himself just doesn't sit right with me.

I find that side of AV refreshing to a point, but in my eyes this wasn't the time or place, for me this was a telling moment for leadership.


It's interesting that you say Juice didn't appreciate AV's laughing, because the video I saw showed him laughing just as hard...
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#49 Ride the red Pony

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:33 AM

It's interesting that you say Juice didn't appreciate AV's laughing, because the video I saw showed him laughing just as hard...


Don't believe he was laughing quite as hard, In my view it was more of what an ***hole type of laugh.
I'm not sure if Juice was even aware what AV was doing, the aesthetics of it for me, is more of what I am referring too.

As I am not privy to what goes on behind closed doors, I try to see the little things that are going on during the game, I try to see what is going on that has them winning or losing, just how I'm wired I guess.

Stats are a great start, but usually there is a lot more to the tale.
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#50 Teemu Selänne

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:43 AM

Linden finished 7th amongst Canuck forwards in points in 2006-2007, but I was always angry because AV kept sticking him on the 4th line.

Sure, Linden had come off a bad year, but he was just 1 season removed from back to back 41 and 36 point seasons. He was skating well and obviously put up more points in the end. He was averaging 12 minutes a game, he should have been playing 14-16.. Jan Bulis level at least.

That really bothered me because that was also AV's first season here and to put the heart and soul on the 4th line made no sense.

I also hate AV for his relationship with Cooke. Lots of rumours stating that Cooke was moved because he and AV didn't get along. But Cooke was and has proven to be the perfect 3rd liner.. Since leaving the Canucks he's won a cup, 18 points in 41 playoff games, 2 15+ goal seasons.. lots of aggressiveness and a great forechecker. A 3rd line featuring Cooke of today and Hansen of today would be awesome.
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#51 DW23

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:03 AM

Not allowing the team to stand up for the abuse Daniel and Henrik were taking against Boston

Defending 1-goal leads

Refusal to give younger players a chance


all of these
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#52 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:38 AM

Putting the pen on the contract when he re-signed here.


Yes, because then we could all be embroiled in "Why did Gillis let AV go?" threads. So much more fun.

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#53 Gollumpus

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:50 AM

I also hate AV for his relationship with Cooke. Lots of rumours stating that Cooke was moved because he and AV didn't get along. But Cooke was and has proven to be the perfect 3rd liner.. Since leaving the Canucks he's won a cup, 18 points in 41 playoff games, 2 15+ goal seasons.. lots of aggressiveness and a great forechecker. A 3rd line featuring Cooke of today and Hansen of today would be awesome.


Yeah, wouldn't it be great to have that playful scamp back on the team?





regards,
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#54 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:07 AM

Don't believe he was laughing quite as hard, In my view it was more of what an ***hole type of laugh.
I'm not sure if Juice was even aware what AV was doing, the aesthetics of it for me, is more of what I am referring too.

As I am not privy to what goes on behind closed doors, I try to see the little things that are going on during the game, I try to see what is going on that has them winning or losing, just how I'm wired I guess.

Stats are a great start, but usually there is a lot more to the tale.



Well I don't claim to be an expert on who was laughing the hardest, but if you say so...

...from what I saw, it looked like a "that was pretty funny, even if it was at my expense" sort of laugh.

As far as the "aesthetics" of it, you're entitled to your opinion, but IMO, it belongs firmly in the "who cares" pile...that's just how I'm wired...
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#55 Bananas

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:13 AM

Most of these posts are pure imagined myths.

But this is one that has weight and substance.

Schnieds would have shined in his home state.

Wouldnt have mattered. The Canucks were so banged up and Thomas was playing like a freak.


So everything we dislike about AV are pure imagined myths, and everything you like about the coach isn't?
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#56 Vansicle

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:15 AM

-Playing not to lose
-Offensively conservative
-Discourages physical game (this will bite this team on the ass presuming we make it to the playoffs)
-Favoritism/Two sets of rules (Rome/Ballard)
-Frivolous line juggling
-Pulling goalies too soon or not soon enough

And specifically, his most recent infuriating move was pulling CS after two goals on two shots. Yes, that was abysmal, but Lou came in and got shelled and stayed the whole game. Imagine what it would do for Schneider's confidence IF he were allowed to stay in and pull it together for the rest of the game. Yes, there is the risk that he gets rocked for a couple more and we still lose, but we lost anyway. If Lou had started that game, I can almost guarantee he stays in after getting rocked for two quickies. History bears me out. And now CS's numbers are all fried because he wasn't allowed to make a single save. I know it was a horrendous start, but everyone has those kinds of games. They don't typically get yanked in the first 3 minutes, tho.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#57 CanuckleHorse

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:32 AM

1) management of ballard
2) not utilizing his timeouts correctly
3) leaving goalies in the net after everyone realizes he's having a bad game ( luongo in Detroit this season)
4) mis-managing prospects; not developing them properly
5) his choice of gum

The list goes on and on

Awesome post spit out my coffee but was worth it :towel:

Edited by CanuckleHorse, 01 April 2013 - 10:32 AM.

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#58 Vansicle

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:16 AM

So everything we dislike about AV are pure imagined myths, and everything you like about the coach isn't?

Yes.
AV is a great coach and should sign a lifetime contract with the Canucks.
Name one bad move he's made. You can't. It is all the players. You want AV to strap on some skates and score goals? You want him to put on goalie pads and get between the pipes? He can't do it all.
Give your head a shake.
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Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#59 CanuckleHorse

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:39 AM

If AV wants to change things up a bit to keep it fresh there are some really good starting points you guys rock both sides of the coin keep em coming :)
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#60 kilgore

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 01:00 PM

Don't think it was in AV's power to stop Cody's agent and daddy from harping on Gillis over the phone.


It is the GMs job to "handle" agents, and parents. He did a p p job if he let them dictate his decisions for the team. A high point in Gillis's tenure was flying to Sweden, sneaking in one day ahead of Burkey, and convincing the Sedins to commit to re-signing with the Canucks. One of his jobs is to reassure both player and by extension the people around him, that he has a good plan for him with the team. Obviously Hodgson's people were not reassured. So it was partly Gillis fault we lost Hodgson, but it was a tag team effort with AV. See below

5. The Hodgson back fiasco. I hate it when coaches try to demand toughness as if they know a damn thing about their player's body.


This was the first indication of yet another example of AV's baffling disrespect and mishandling of his rookies. Shirokov, Grabner, and then Hodgson. There was no reason to go public with his "doubts" about Cody's injury level. He tried to embarrass him in public and then when Cody's injury was found to be mis-diagnosed, instead of apologizing, AV dug in deeper and seemed to get even more resentful that he was proven wrong and shown up by a little golden boy rookie. It could have been a re-start, but instead AV seemed to want to punish Cody by playing him sparingly, and benching him for minor mistakes that someone like Bieksa made 4 or 5 times a game.

In spite of this, with one of the lowest ice time of all rookies that year, thanks to AV, Cody led in scoring for rookies. The third highest goal producer on the team. An astonishing feat. It helped that the Nuge was out for a bit, but still, not too shabby.

And no, he wasn't a "cancer". He was well-liked in the dressing room. Reporter Murph backed that up. A player doesn't go from a former Captain of his junior team, someone regarded as a character guy, the best player in the World Juniors (despite it being awarded to Tavares), to a problem player overnight. He was voted the smartest player by OHL coaches for two years in a row. Maybe he was just too smart for AV.

Then there was the argument that there was no place for him. Just before the trade deadline of that year, AV said in a scrum, "I can't reduce Henrik's ice time and I can't reduce Ryan's ice time so how can I increase Cody's" (paraphrasing). This in spite of knowing internally, that Kesler had had a shoulder injury in February. He SHOULD have reduced Kesler's ice time so that he wasn't so damaged for the start of the playoffs.

Between Gillis and AV, they could've worked out a way to assure Cody that there was a future for him with this club. I'm sure he would have been open to even converting to winger temporarily, at least through the playoffs. But why not staple him to the third line center position? Let him feel part of the team on a consistent basis. Let him play through his mistakes as a rookie. Manny was out with his eye injury. If Cody wasn't defensively minded enough in AV's mind why not alter the role of that third line? Why?...because AV either doesn't have the mind to figure that out, or is just too damn stubborn. It was almost as if AV had already decided that there was no place for Cody and he made sure that happened. And the loss was the team and the fans.

Who knows if Cody would have made a difference in that first round. But we needed more scoring, and another goal or assist here and there just may have been enough, but we'll never know now.
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