What a beautiful HST free day

[ronthecivil]

http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21574481-disappointing-exports-stalled-investment-and-fiscal-austerity-leave-overstretched-consumer

Looks like bad news!

And BC and half of CDC reacts in a way that can only help - by taking tax policy backwards, opposing pipelines, and getting ready to vote in the economically inept NDP!

[Sapper]

"Obviously you haven't heard of the "gray" market whereby a consumer can save the "labour" tax all together by paying in cash."

So you are suggesting somebody not pay tax at all? And yet you have a problem with people getting rid of a tax?

[Sapper]

http://www.economist...etched-consumer

Looks like bad news!

And BC and half of CDC reacts in a way that can only help - by taking tax policy backwards, opposing pipelines, and getting ready to vote in the economically inept NDP!

[Heretic]

I would do not do it - I shop local when possible - and pay up front. Those workers if injured doing the labor in an under the table cash deal can sue you big time. And if problems arise you have no recourse to sue them - you would have to admit to tax evasion in court in establishing they did the work

And with the taxes now only 5% on materials it is cheaper than 10% of the entire bill so a win win and all done on the books legitimatly.

[Heretic]

"Obviously you haven't heard of the "gray" market whereby a consumer can save the "labour" tax all together by paying in cash."

So you are suggesting somebody not pay tax at all? And yet you have a problem with people getting rid of a tax?

[Sapper]

Wrong - material is subject to GST and PST.

Workers get paid by the contractor...not by me.

I pay when the job is done.

I also deal with locals only - who put their reputation on the line, and in a smaller town atmosphere, that means if you are unhappy with their work they will lose business.

[Heretic]

Yah I meant to say that it was labor that was 5% the rest was the double - However many enviroment upgrades such as window that exceed standard energy efficiencies where also PST expempt prior - wonder if that still will happen

And here is a horror story to consider

You pay cash for a contractor to work on your house - They do a shody job and water damage begins hidden in your house. Years later an incident occurs where you need to file a house insurance claim. Your insurer feels the damage was made worse by poor instillation of the windows that contributed to the damage. The windows manufactur was clear with the warrenty that installation must be done by trained proffessionals. Do you think your insurance company is on board with the cash deal and will trust your small town contractor to make it right? Not a chance

There are things that one could do cash for I suppose that would not have a major impact if things went wrong. Major home renovations are not one of them though in my opinion. And no I do not work in trades or construction. I have just seen to many people burned by the "trust me" approach that have no one to help when it fails.

[ronthecivil]

Then shouldn't you have done something beyond continuing the BC liberal blame game? Why not get involved in a party and be a voice for positive change no matter which party you join. If the NDP get elected it will not be because the voters want them - it will be because the voters want to fire the BC Liberals. It would be better to push a party to better policies and planning rather then fear mongering that you feel the other party is worse than yours so folks should vote for them? Odd way of helping out I would suggest

And from your article - it leaves out the #1 contributing factor - Low or stagnet wages means people are reducing or eliminating spending. Imagine if as promised businuess raised wages when the HST was brought in. This is the mess that happens when goverments write policies and budgets based on trickle down economics.

From that article " As for consumers, after 11 consecutive years in which household spending has exceeded disposable income, they are deeply in hock."

So over the last 11 years working families have fallen greatly behind in earnings and are being crippled in debt - So it would be an acurate statement that under the BC Liberals households are worse off than under the NDP times or in other words - BC Liberal times have been bad for working families.

[ronthecivil]

ROFL at the home renos talks.

Hope yer paying cash on your paid up house (unlikely) instead of funding it through a HELOC (very very common, hence all the debt) because if it's the latter the fact that you paid PST or HST on project is only going to make a 5% difference on a pretty bad business decision when the credit bubble goes boom......

[Sapper]

I remember years ago storming into my Federal MLA's office furious about a policy they where bringing in. He asked - did you vote? I told him yes so I earned the right to complain. The MLA said " no - actually voting in itself doesn't give you that right. Unless your willing to follow through and let me know what your thinking and telling me what concerns you - how in the world can you expect me to help fix a problem when you only come see me after it happens? ".

I did email my MLA and although I did not vote for them I did tell them before the vote that I thought it was heading for defeat as they where dismissing upset voters. How many BC Liberal supporters voiced to their MLA the concern that the HST was heading for defeat unless something changed? Those that did not are actually part of the over all problem. Voting in an election buys you the right to have an opinion - making sure your MLA's know your opinion is just as important as voting.

[Sapper]

ROFL at the home renos talks.

Hope yer paying cash on your paid up house (unlikely) instead of funding it through a HELOC (very very common, hence all the debt) because if it's the latter the fact that you paid PST or HST on project is only going to make a 5% difference on a pretty bad business decision when the credit bubble goes boom......

[NikiShiz]

Benefit of the HST was business could deduct 12% (the HST) on their expenses. Now they can only deduct 5% (the GST) on their expenses.

What this means is many businesses are going to have higher costs which will lead to them charging higher prices. There is an argument that spending will increase because consumers pay less on certain Goods/Services but in the long run prices are going to go up because of the return to the GST/PST system.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Liberal government was idiotic to adopt the HST without due process, but it was actually beneficial to BC.

[No_More_Larchide]

For me, the HST issue and the uneducated/ill informed people voting to take it out came to a front with my girlfriend and her family.

All of them are very smart, university educated and generally well versed people. But over dinner one night they were talking about how excited they were to vote down the HST, when I asked why they spouted the same crap about lower food prices, etc. Not once did they talk about or think about the negatives removing the tax would have on BC, they just drank the kool-aid the "fight the power" anti HST people were handing out without doing research. And I would bet the majority of the people who voted to have it removed would fall under this same label.

[nucklehead]

How did Home Reno's drop in cost?

I paid PST and GST on some lumber yesterday - if the HST was in at 10%, I would have saved 2%.

[RUPERTKBD]

Sorry dude I don't want to give businesses tax breaks.  I'm tired of rich people getting all the breaks.  Prices never went down when the HST came in.  Today I paid less for my food.

[Heretic]

GST only is charged on labor.

[Stefan]

http://www.bcliquorstores.com/newsrelease/liquor-shelf-prices-keep-steady-return-pst

[silverpig]

An example is Windows - http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ome-renos3.html

Cost to replace an entire house's windows drops 7% as the labor is only subject to GST not PST. There could be more exemptions but that's the one I was reffering to - the savings are in the labor as it is no longer subject to the PST portion that was added when they brought in the HST

[nucklehead]

I did the labour. I am a DIY. I paid GST and PST on the materials.

[silverpig]

I would do not do it - I shop local when possible - and pay up front. Those workers if injured doing the labor in an under the table cash deal can sue you big time. And if problems arise you have no recourse to sue them - you would have to admit to tax evasion in court in establishing they did the work

And with the taxes now only 5% on materials it is cheaper than 10% of the entire bill so a win win and all done on the books legitimatly.