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[Trade] Bishop to lightning


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#91 Toews

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 05:29 PM

http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=summary

Using your argument, Schneider's producing 'middle of the pack numbers' too.

He's ranked 15th on the list of winning goalies this season. Is that not, by definition, 'average numbers'?

But wait, since it's Schneider, it's a different standard now?

Luongo also is not that far behind from Schneider in terms of GAA and he also has two shutouts. But since it's Luongo, he doesn't deserve credit?

When can we stop throwing our goalies under the bus?

You're part of the reason why we have had a goalie graveyard for so long. Fans dissing goalies. The real problem is still our defense, which was not addressed this deadline.


Moneypuck Overload got one thing right, I am not a Canucks fan. Schneider is 15th on the win list because he has started less games than everyone ahead of him. GAA is also a team stat so I am not surprised Luongo is close to Schneider on that account. The fact of the matter is though that Schneider has won more percentage of his games and has put up a very impressive .925 SV%. I think its quite obvious that Schneider is the better goalie.

I have no agenda here, just stating facts. Its a shame that Moneypuck Overload is so sensitive otherwise we could actually have a legitimate discussion in here.
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#92 Dazzle

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:00 PM

Lol resorting to personal attacks now are we? That seems to be a common theme in all your posts, maybe next time try not to have the homer goggles on too tight.

Yeah I expect the 5.3mil dollar goalie to have better numbers than the 600k goalie.


It's skewed because it's a small sample vs a big sample.

You have to also look at the team that St. Louis has. They're playing good hockey.
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#93 Dazzle

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 10:04 PM

Moneypuck Overload got one thing right, I am not a Canucks fan. Schneider is 15th on the win list because he has started less games than everyone ahead of him. GAA is also a team stat so I am not surprised Luongo is close to Schneider on that account. The fact of the matter is though that Schneider has won more percentage of his games and has put up a very impressive .925 SV%. I think its quite obvious that Schneider is the better goalie.

I have no agenda here, just stating facts. Its a shame that Moneypuck Overload is so sensitive otherwise we could actually have a legitimate discussion in here.


Now you're contradicting yourself. The number of games that Schneider has played is comparable to the starters who has played this season. Even if you were to say that Schneider has played less games than those that are producing top numbers (which he has, but only slightly), how do you explain that Schneider has less wins within that sample? Using your logic, he should have more wins, if he is in fact a superior goalie. It's not that simple though. Some goals cannot be stopped because of a boneheaded defensive play.

You make it seem like Schneider has been deprived the number of games that he has played, when in fact, he has not. Furthermore, other established goalies who have been defined as a starter have played comparably similar number of games.

Using YOUR logic, I can say that Luongo has bad numbers because of the fewer games that he has played (exactly the same way that you're pointing out with Schneider).

But ultimately, you are putting way too much emphasis on goaltending when really, hockey is a team sport.

Edited by Dazzle, 15 April 2013 - 10:05 PM.

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#94 Toews

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:34 PM

Now you're contradicting yourself. The number of games that Schneider has played is comparable to the starters who has played this season. Even if you were to say that Schneider has played less games than those that are producing top numbers (which he has, but only slightly), how do you explain that Schneider has less wins within that sample? Using your logic, he should have more wins, if he is in fact a superior goalie. It's not that simple though. Some goals cannot be stopped because of a boneheaded defensive play.

You make it seem like Schneider has been deprived the number of games that he has played, when in fact, he has not. Furthermore, other established goalies who have been defined as a starter have played comparably similar number of games.

Using YOUR logic, I can say that Luongo has bad numbers because of the fewer games that he has played (exactly the same way that you're pointing out with Schneider).

But ultimately, you are putting way too much emphasis on goaltending when really, hockey is a team sport.


Exactly which is why Wins is a terrible stat to judge a goalie by. SV% is a much better indicator of how good a goalie is. Again Wins are a team stat, same with GAA. Sergei Bobrovsky is the Norris favorite this year and he is #13 in Wins. But that can attributed to the team that he plays for.

Except Schneider's numbers are absolutely phenomenal. His SV% is 4th in the league, Luongo's SV% is 19th. One is putting up elite numbers, and the other is putting up fairly average numbers. I will say it again, there is no doubt who has been better this season. Imo it is time to dump Luongo and take whatever return you can get, Schneider is your goalie of the future. Simply put he gives you a better chance at winning. Doesn't make sense for him to start less just because the lesser goalie has an atrocity of a contract.

Edited by Toews, 17 April 2013 - 03:46 PM.

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#95 Dazzle

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:10 PM

Exactly which is why Wins is a terrible stat to judge a goalie by. SV% is a much better indicator of how good a goalie is. Again Wins are a team stat, same with GAA. Sergei Bobrovsky is the Norris favorite this year and he is #13 in Wins. But that can attributed to the team that he plays for.

Except Schneider's numbers are absolutely phenomenal. His SV% is 4th in the league, Luongo's SV% is 19th. One is putting up elite numbers, and the other is putting up fairly average numbers. I will say it again, there is no doubt who has been better this season. Imo it is time to dump Luongo and take whatever return you can get, Schneider is your goalie of the future. Simply put he gives you a better chance at winning. Doesn't make sense for him to start less just because the lesser goalie has an atrocity of a contract.


Cloutier also had great SV% numbers in the season. Critics claimed that it was the team in front of him that made him look good, thus discrediting him from being a 'good goalie'. He was though. Three 30+ win seasons, best ones after a long stretch of fringe goalies.

One can argue that it is the same for Vancouver. On paper, we have a really deep defense.

Schneider is great - no doubt about it. But the defense has crapped out on both goalies. That 4-0 Edmonton game is a great example of very poor defensive coverage. None of those goals were the goalies' fault.

I think that 2.34 is pretty decent and would not qualify as 'average', considering that Luongo isn't the starter anymore and compared to other goalies with similar number of starts, Luongo's numbers are good.

At this point, I don't think it's a fair comparison to say that Schneider is the better goalie - all it takes is one or two bad games for Schneider and all your stats that you have mentioned go out the window - like Luongo's couple of bad games.
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#96 n00bxQb

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:42 PM

LOL @ SV% being an individual stat but wins being a team stat. The team's defense plays no part in SV%? :lol:

Luongo has "average" stats because he was left in for that game against Detroit where he struggled, the team played terrible defense in front of him, and Schneider was too sick to come in to relieve Lu. In prior seasons, Lu would've played a lot more games and that one game would've had less of an impact on his stats. Take that one game out and he's at 92.6% for SV% on the year

Edited by n00bxQb, 17 April 2013 - 06:47 PM.

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