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Who says we can't draft late round talent?


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#31 Langdon Algur

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 04:29 PM

I don't think many people complain about the Canucks' ability to draft late round talent or develop undrafted players, just look at the roster:

Bieksa (5th round)
Edler (3rd round)
Hansen (9th round)
Burrows (undrafted)
Tanev (undrafted)

The problem in my opinion is that (a) regular season success means late first round draft picks ( B) many second round picks have been traded away © poor drafting decisions. Not many teams get lucky in the late rounds. Detroit is the only team that really consistently finds these gems.


pretty sound we will be able to add Corrado to that list (5th round)
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#32 Apple Juice

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 04:29 PM

resigning Hansen might be tricky because his contract is up the same year the Sedin's is too and resigning them will be the priority. Hansen will be getting a big raise too the way he's playing he's only making 1.3 mil

Agreed. Out in the market, Hansen will be getting at least 3 million for his services.. Hell, some teams like the Rangers might even offer 5 mil because Sather is that big of an idiot... But I'm pretty sure Hansen has too many ties to the Canucks and he'll take a hometown discount as with what Burrows, Higgins, and many others have done..


If Hansen chooses to re-sign here in Vancouver, I'd say he'd be asking for 2 mil tops. 2.5 maybe but 2 mil is the max he'll want maybe.. For probably 3 years?
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#33 frazzY

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 04:35 PM

Also everyone says our prospect pool and over all drafting is weak... Erm, WAS WEAK..

Drafted Hodgson (stud) traded him for Kassian (stud)

Drafted Bourdon (rest in peace u stud, forever a canuck)

Drafted Schneider, Edler, Hansen, Kesler (STUDS)

And Jensen, Corrado, Gaunce and co. I have a great feeling about.

Also college out of nowhere signings in Tanev and we all hope Kellan Lain lives up to the hype.

Canucks drafting has greatly improved and continues too..

(I left out Dank and Hank cause that was 14 years ago and i figured it went without sayin, but those 2... STUDS!!')

Pavel Bure late round hall of famer, and our epitomy of the heart of a Canuck Trevor Linden.

Future has been getting brighter

Edited by frazzY, 05 April 2013 - 04:35 PM.

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#34 TigerWilliams

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 04:41 PM

All due respect to Hansen, but the fact he's where he is in scoring on the team says more about the other guys on the roster who haven't produced due to injury, post-lockout blues, or just having bad seasons.

Hansen is getting paid exactly what he deserves.
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#35 canuktravella

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 05:14 PM

just to let you know when canucks drafted pavel in 6th round a bunch of teams complainted to the commisionaire because they thought he wasnt draft eligible til the next draft we stole pavel bure and the league gave him to us im sure they paid off th comissionaire at time other teams were pissed
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#36 Gustavo Fring

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 05:20 PM

just to let you know when canucks drafted pavel in 6th round a bunch of teams complainted to the commisionaire because they thought he wasnt draft eligible til the next draft we stole pavel bure and the league gave him to us im sure they paid off th comissionaire at time other teams were pissed


We werent villains back then.
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#37 elvis15

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 05:23 PM

While you are quoting board rules:

I personally have no problem with your sig, and maybe you've cleared this with the mods, but your signature seems to be a form of commercial advertising.

Thanks for your contribution - if you don't like it, you're welcome to follow your own advice and report it. I will explain to you why my post is different though.

I gave the OP a recommendation that he hadn't given enough information to really start a new discussion, and it seemed that he was replying to someone else from another thread. I suggested he go and do some more research while commenting on the topic and then reply in the original spot he saw the comment he wanted to reply to. No problems there since I was talking about Hansen and alluded that there's more than one player that qualified if he really wanted to discuss it.

Then, someone else replied to me about something other than Hansen or the Canucks drafting, so I let him know why I posted what I did and that it's my opinion that it makes much more sense to put posts in existing threads when it makes sense rather than try and start the same discussion all over again. I pointed out a number of threads that would fit the topic at hand, however the OP meant it.

What I don't do is call the OP names or post one line responses that don't have anything to do with the topic (i.e. "cool story bro"). While you might not agree with how I posted it, I'd think you'd agree that the OP had hardly refuted any future claims about poor Canucks drafting by posting his one example, and that my original post does try and explain that.
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#38 Discord

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 05:28 PM

Do you run around at parties putting coasters under everyone's drink?

or those people who constantly go, "oh, you're going to have ANOTHER drink?" while crossing their arms, tapping their feet and giving you a stern look, as you take another drink and slowly walk away
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#39 aqua59

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 05:36 PM

He's come a long way. I remember the first time he came up. the guy had speed to burn and not much else.

Edited by aqua59, 05 April 2013 - 05:36 PM.

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#40 kessywessy

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 06:27 PM

Ok, so that was clearly worth a new thread versus posting it in another thread about how we can't draft late round talent. If you can't think of more than one player as an example (and there are more), you should probably hold off on posting until you have something a little more substantial, and then you can go post it somewhere where someone is saying our drafting sucks.

Having said that, Honey Badger don't give a ...

Honestly, is this guy a mod or what?
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#41 Primus099

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 06:30 PM

Agreed. Out in the market, Hansen will be getting at least 3 million for his services.. Hell, some teams like the Rangers might even offer 5 mil because Sather is that big of an idiot... But I'm pretty sure Hansen has too many ties to the Canucks and he'll take a hometown discount as with what Burrows, Higgins, and many others have done..


If Hansen chooses to re-sign here in Vancouver, I'd say he'd be asking for 2 mil tops. 2.5 maybe but 2 mil is the max he'll want maybe.. For probably 3 years?


hope that's the case because 2 mil is a paycut for him, he's making 1.3 right now. He's easily worth double that if not more with how good he's playing
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#42 TheTruthHurts

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 06:34 PM

Now if only we could go to the future and see which late draft picks aren't going to be complete bombs then we have the perfect plan muhahahahahahahaha.
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#43 shazzam

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

That was a great draft year for the Canucks, thank you Nonis

Schneider, Edler, Hansen
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#44 Aladeen

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:09 PM

Also everyone says our prospect pool and over all drafting is weak... Erm, WAS WEAK..

Drafted Hodgson (stud) traded him for Kassian (stud)

Drafted Bourdon (rest in peace u stud, forever a canuck)

Drafted Schneider, Edler, Hansen, Kesler (STUDS)

And Jensen, Corrado, Gaunce and co. I have a great feeling about.

Also college out of nowhere signings in Tanev and we all hope Kellan Lain lives up to the hype.

Canucks drafting has greatly improved and continues too..

(I left out Dank and Hank cause that was 14 years ago and i figured it went without sayin, but those 2... STUDS!!')

Pavel Bure late round hall of famer, and our epitomy of the heart of a Canuck Trevor Linden.

Future has been getting brighter

Not to mention Gillis magically turning Patrick White into Christian Erhoff!!!
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#45 Snake Doctor

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:12 PM

I see Hansen improving even more.
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#46 Tragoedia

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:01 PM

Not to mention Gillis magically turning Patrick White into Christian Erhoff!!!

It's hard to criticize management for drafting White when after they realized he wasn't going to pan out they flipped him for someone who became a huge contributor to the Canucks.
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#47 Nino

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:09 PM

You can always draft late talent, look a bure. It's just more unlikely the later you go. You can even find talent that is undrafted......
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#48 Yellow Canuck

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

Just putting it out there, but Ben Eager was once a 1st round pick
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#49 nuckin_futz

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:20 PM

Not to mention Gillis magically turning Patrick White into Christian Erhoff!!!


Nothing magic about it really. That was pure salary dump on the part of the Sharks. They were about to acquire Dany Heatley and had to dump salary.

Let's not pretend Doug Wilson though the was getting a player.

Still, good on Gillis for being in the right place at the right time to acquire him.
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#50 nuckin_futz

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:34 PM

Thanks for your contribution - if you don't like it, you're welcome to follow your own advice and report it. I will explain to you why my post is different though.

I gave the OP a recommendation that he hadn't given enough information to really start a new discussion, and it seemed that he was replying to someone else from another thread. I suggested he go and do some more research while commenting on the topic and then reply in the original spot he saw the comment he wanted to reply to. No problems there since I was talking about Hansen and alluded that there's more than one player that qualified if he really wanted to discuss it.

Then, someone else replied to me about something other than Hansen or the Canucks drafting, so I let him know why I posted what I did and that it's my opinion that it makes much more sense to put posts in existing threads when it makes sense rather than try and start the same discussion all over again. I pointed out a number of threads that would fit the topic at hand, however the OP meant it.

What I don't do is call the OP names or post one line responses that don't have anything to do with the topic (i.e. "cool story bro"). While you might not agree with how I posted it, I'd think you'd agree that the OP had hardly refuted any future claims about poor Canucks drafting by posting his one example, and that my original post does try and explain that.


Elvis, you're obviously a very passionate fan and I might even add very knowledgeable. Your posts are usually quite enjoyable to read.

However, your constant "mini modding" is beyond over the line. While we're giving each other recommendations as you put it. How about the next time you feel like reminding someone of the rules you instead pm a mod with your concerns and let them enforce the site rules as that is what they are here for. They will be more than happy to take action if they deem it necessary.

I have seen people call you out for "mini modding" many times and I personally think everyone's experience here (yours included) would be more enjoyable if you put an end to your mini modding as quite frankly it's annoying and makes you look like a heavy.
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#51 Belsy91

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:31 PM

I don't know, you?
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#52 Gollumpus

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:38 PM

Not BAD... then again:

Pavel Datsyuk - Selected by Detroit Red Wings round 6 #171 overall 1998 NHL Entry Draft


Henrik Zetterberg - Selected by Detroit Red Wings round 7 #210 overall 1999 NHL Entry Draft


Sergei Fedorov - Selected by Detroit Red Wings round 4 #74 overall 1989 NHL Entry Draft


Tomas Holmstrom - Selected by Detroit Red Wings round 10 #257 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft


Nicklas Lidstrom - Selected by Detroit Red Wings round 3 #53 overall 1989 NHL Entry Draft



We're not quite Detroit.


I would point out one thing from your post: look at the draft dates for the players you've mentioned. How many are from this century?

I've always wanted to say that in a post. :)

I believe the Canucks have done quite well since 2001.

2001 - !st Umberger, 5th Bieksa

2004 - 1st Schneider, 3rd Edler, 9th Hansen

2005 - 1st Bourdon, 2nd Raymond

2006 - 1st Grabner,

2008 - 1st Hodgson, (start of the Gillis era)


Detroit

2002 - 1st Hudler, 2nd Fleischmann, 3rd Filppula, 9th Ericsson

2003 - 2nd Howard, 4th Quincey

2004 - 3rd Franzen

2005 - 1st Kindl, 2nd Abdelkader, 5th Helm,

2006 - 2nd Emmerton, 2nd Matthias

Maybe I've missed one or two lesser lights from Detroit. I don't see a lot of later picks in the last while that have panned out for Detroit. I don't know about whether Detroit has managed to sign any UFA's like Tanev, but if he is included in the Canucks' tally then it starts to look a lot better for the Canucks.

regards,
G.
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#53 campers11

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:18 AM

Not BAD... then again:

Pavel Datsyuk - Selected by Detroit Red Wings round 6 #171 overall 1998 NHL Entry Draft


Henrik Zetterberg - Selected by Detroit Red Wings round 7 #210 overall 1999 NHL Entry Draft


Sergei Fedorov - Selected by Detroit Red Wings round 4 #74 overall 1989 NHL Entry Draft


Tomas Holmstrom - Selected by Detroit Red Wings round 10 #257 overall 1994 NHL Entry Draft


Nicklas Lidstrom - Selected by Detroit Red Wings round 3 #53 overall 1989 NHL Entry Draft



We're not quite Detroit.

That was also 13-23 years ago, no one in recent years has found the diamond in the rough like Detroit has. Drafting is too good now and players that are talented are found and drafted high. Superstars are born in the first round these days, I'd be surprised if any team developed a superstar that came past the 3rd round in the draft.
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#54 VanIsleNuckFan

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:12 PM

Where are all the people who were saying mg can't draft/produce players like Detroit... To them I would say, see, it just takes some time for those things to become apparent....

Edited by VanIsleNuckFan, 06 April 2013 - 12:14 PM.

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#55 meh_wassup

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:40 PM

Enough about Honey Badger guys, this quarrel between Elvis the mini mod and nuckin_futz the logical miracle is keeping me on the edge of my seat. I can't wait for the retaliation by Mr. Elvis. Just a reminder that no shots below the belt will be tolerated folks.
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#56 ccc44

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 01:08 PM

Gillis has only been the GM of this team for five NHL drafts in which he has had four first round picks:

Cody Hodgson
Jordan Schroeder
Niklas Jensen
Brendan Gaunce
Frankie Corrado

He also drafted Frank Corrado, who is arguably one of the top 4-5 Candian Junior defencemen.

I don't have many complaints about his draft history.

Arguably is right , Corrado is a decent prospect but he is getting over-hyped by some on CDC
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#57 SamJamIam

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 01:10 PM

...


Wah wah! I can't end a thread with an image that says "Redundant" so I'll spend half an hour taking over the thread being a whiney minimod. Go away, your services are neither wanted nor needed.
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#58 SamJamIam

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 01:11 PM

Arguably is right , Corrado is a decent prospect but he is getting over-hyped by some on CDC


You crazy son. Corrado is far more than decent.
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#59 JE14

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 01:11 PM

The Canucks aren't terrible with drafting. I hate when people say teams like the Oilers are good at drafting because they're not. How hard is it to take the consensus #1 three years in a row?
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#60 canuckfan85

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 01:19 PM

bourdon would be a top 2 d man by now- likely better than edler and perhaps a franchise D man- we may have even won the cup with him and probably would not have made the ballard trade...

coulda woulda shoulda...but losing a potential franchise player and a young person is devastating,

umberger had some good years in the nhl and would have been a great 3C too bad know-it-all burke was too proud to pay him but instead gave him away for martin rucinsky who was down right awful for us.

love the retrospectoscope....

the truths of drafting.

Keep your picks
draft BPA
give your prospects time to develop and a chance to develop.
do not give up on them prematurely.

the canucks like a lot of teams are guilty of not following these ostensible truths.
-trade away 2nd rounders all the time
-do not select BPA- go off the board in rounds 2-3
-traded grabner without really giving him a look in the nhl.
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