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When healthy is this Canucks roster better than the 2011 Stanley Cup Final team?

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#1 Belsy91

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:29 AM

I was going over our lines this evening and I slotted in all of our injured players into the lineup. If we get hot at the right time I think this team HEALTHY is better than the team in 2011. Roy gives us a legit third line that can score and our fourth line is much tougher. Check out the line combos below, do you agree or disagree?

Sedin Sedin Burrows

Raymond Kesler Booth

Higgins Roy Hansen

Weise Lappiere Kassian/Sestito

Bieksa Edler

Hamhuis Garrison

Ballard Tanev

Schnieder
Luongo

Edited by Belsy91, 07 April 2013 - 12:30 AM.

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#2 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:36 AM

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Yes I think so.

The forward group is better. And the defense core is just as good and the goaltending is better.
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#3 Zoolander

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:37 AM

Scratch Booth and add Jensen or Schroeder and I think we could be better than our 2011 team. Schneider is playing even more lights-out right now than him and Luongo were in 2011, and our 3rd line is much more of a scoring threat........the only pieces I miss are Ehrhoff's PP ability (I don't miss his 5-on-5 play) and Raffi Torres in the bottom 6.....This team is MUCH faster than the 2011 team IMO as well
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#4 clutesi

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:42 AM

If only Jensen was a little further along I'd say yes. Do Tanev and Garrison replace Salo and Erhoff? I don't think so, and for that I'd say 2011 was better. But this team has a better overall set of forwards. Who knows what could happen if they got hot at the right time.
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#5 Belsy91

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:44 AM

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Scratch Booth and add Jensen or Schroeder and I think we could be better than our 2011 team. Schneider is playing even more lights-out right now than him and Luongo were in 2011, and our 3rd line is much more of a scoring threat........the only pieces I miss are Ehrhoff's PP ability (I don't miss his 5-on-5 play) and Raffi Torres in the bottom 6.....This team is MUCH faster than the 2011 team IMO as well


I disagree with scratching Booth for either youngster, Jensen will be a great player in a few years but in the few games he played I could tell he was not ready and needs to get stronger, Shroeder is still missing something, I don't know if he can become a top 6 guy in the league but I hope I'm wrong about this, he too is not ready. Booth gives us a dimension of speed and the ability to go hard to the net where as others on our team don't have that "offensive crash the net" skill set.
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#6 Zoolander

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:27 AM

I disagree with scratching Booth for either youngster, Jensen will be a great player in a few years but in the few games he played I could tell he was not ready and needs to get stronger, Shroeder is still missing something, I don't know if he can become a top 6 guy in the league but I hope I'm wrong about this, he too is not ready. Booth gives us a dimension of speed and the ability to go hard to the net where as others on our team don't have that "offensive crash the net" skill set.

That's great and all...but what's the point of having a crash-the-net Forward in your top 6 if that player has a hard enough time scoring a goal, let alone multiple goals and at a steady pace
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#7 Belsy91

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:36 AM

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That's great and all...but what's the point of having a crash-the-net Forward in your top 6 if that player has a hard enough time scoring a goal, let alone multiple goals and at a steady pace


The knock against him is his durability, he gets injured often. If he can stay healthy consistently, your looking at a 20-30 goal scorer per year.

Edited by Belsy91, 07 April 2013 - 01:38 AM.

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#8 Avicii

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:43 AM

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It's not about the individual skill of the players.. If we're looking at it like that, then sure we're better this year.

What was so special about the 2011 team was that they knew they were the best and played like they were the best. They understood that nobody could possibly beat them if they were on their game. Does this team have that mindset? No, not even close.
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#9 etsen3

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:49 AM

It's not about the individual skill of the players.. If we're looking at it like that, then sure we're better this year.

What was so special about the 2011 team was that they knew they were the best and played like they were the best. They understood that nobody could possibly beat them if they were on their game. Does this team have that mindset? No, not even close.


This, the 2011 team had rock solid confidence. Even when they were down they knew they were good enough to easily come back. It was fun to watch a team with so much momentum and confidence. Maybe if we go on a run down the stretch this year we can regain some of that swagger.
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#10 RunningWild

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:52 AM

The forward group, when healthy, it's 4x times better than the 2011 team. Easily. Not even close. Not only are they better on paper, but they have a deeper and more versatile group.

I wrote this in another thread, but you'll recall the 2011 team not having a 4th line - at all. The plugs/AHLers that were rolled out during the playoffs were highly sheltered and often a liability. Therefore, AV gave them little TOI. Now, 2 of 3 fourth liners play on the PK and eat heavy d-zone starts. Basically, the 4th line now plays an important role on the team.

2011 3rd line was Hansen- Lappy - Torres. While they were a physical line, they combined for 9 goals in 25 playoff games - or 3 goals each in 25 playoff games. That's pretty sad considering the amount of ice time they were getting.

Quite frankly looking back, I'm not sure how the 2011 team got to gm 7 with only 1.5 lines. It was all Sedins, Kesler, Luongo and the d-core. Raymond had 2 freekin goals, Samuelsson had 1, Higgins had 4 and that was it. It's easy to see why shutting down the Sedins and a hobbled Kesler was the demise in gm 7.

The 2011 team and this team have the same puck possession underlying #'s. The PP stinks this yr, but I really don't care cause they're not getting PP's in the playoffs. They need to be a strong even strength team with a great PK.
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#11 ajhockey

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:01 AM

No, but it's not too far off.

2011 was incredible.
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#12 mcgillnuck

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:05 AM

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On paper sure.

In reality in 2011 Edler and Ehrhoff were both playing like Norris candidates, the Sedins were both playing like league MVPs and Kesler played well enough to beat out Datsyuk for the Selke. Plus our PP was easily the best in the league.

We have the same core personnel this year but for whatever reason they're not playing up to their potential. If they get hot at the right moment we could have a great run this year, but that's what everyone was banking on last year too and they couldn't elevate their game when it mattered...
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#13 RunningWild

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:20 AM

On paper sure.

In reality in 2011 Edler and Ehrhoff were both playing like Norris candidates, the Sedins were both playing like league MVPs and Kesler played well enough to beat out Datsyuk for the Selke. Plus our PP was easily the best in the league.

We have the same core personnel this year but for whatever reason they're not playing up to their potential. If they get hot at the right moment we could have a great run this year, but that's what everyone was banking on last year too and they couldn't elevate their game when it mattered...


In 2011 Edler and Ehrhoff were a defensive disaster pairing in the playoffs. They were killed at even strength. They played very easy mins and still couldn't hold their own. This yr, Canucks have 2.5 pairing who can effectively eat 'tough minutes'. 2011 team, they had Hamhuis/Juice and sometimes Salo. This yr, Canucks have a way more versatile and stronger defensivly back end. They just don't have the depth beyond Ballard/Tanev that they did in 2011- esp on the right side.
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#14 Avicii

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:24 AM

In 2011 Edler and Ehrhoff were a defensive disaster pairing in the playoffs. They were killed at even strength. They played very easy mins and still couldn't hold their own. This yr, Canucks have 2.5 pairing who can effectively eat 'tough minutes'. 2011 team, they had Hamhuis/Juice and sometimes Salo. This yr, Canucks have a way more versatile and stronger defensivly back end. They just don't have the depth beyond Ballard/Tanev that they did in 2011- esp on the right side.


Edler and Ehrhoff never played together after Edler came back from his injury. (They played like 2 games and then were separated because they were bad but that was the regular season)

The pairings were:

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Salo
Ehrhoff - Rome/Alberts/Tanev

Edler was also beastly that year, so was Ehrhoff. Far from "defensive disasters.." Unless you're referring to the like 2 games they played together after Edler came back, then sure..

Edited by Django, 07 April 2013 - 02:24 AM.

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#15 Red Light Racicot

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:33 AM

Nope. They dont have a devastating PP like that 2011 team did. Malholtra also gave that team a huge advantage.

Edit: Additionally, the core was a couple years younger, and Kesler didnt have the mileage.

Edited by Red Light Racicot, 07 April 2013 - 02:40 AM.

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#16 RunningWild

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:35 AM

Edler and Ehrhoff never played together after Edler came back from his injury. (They played like 2 games and then were separated because they were bad but that was the regular season)

The pairings were:

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Edler - Salo
Ehrhoff - Rome/Alberts/Tanev

Edler was also beastly that year, so was Ehrhoff. Far from "defensive disasters.." Unless you're referring to the like 2 games they played together after Edler came back, then sure..


I'm referring to the playoffs. According to Behind the Net, Edler and Erhoff were paired together (at EV) more than with any other d-men. And they were primarily deployed with the Sedins - all in 'softer' minutes. And yes, they were defensive disasters according to Behind the Net as well. They played soft mins and were on the ice/per ice time for more 'goals against' than any other d-men. And the Hamhuis/Bieksa pairing were on the ice for more 'goals for' at EV than the Edler/ Erhoff pairing.
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#17 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:41 AM

On paper sure.

In reality in 2011 Edler and Ehrhoff were both playing like Norris candidates, the Sedins were both playing like league MVPs and Kesler played well enough to beat out Datsyuk for the Selke. Plus our PP was easily the best in the league.

We have the same core personnel this year but for whatever reason they're not playing up to their potential. If they get hot at the right moment we could have a great run this year, but that's what everyone was banking on last year too and they couldn't elevate their game when it mattered...

In 2011 Edler and Ehrhoff were a defensive disaster pairing in the playoffs. They were killed at even strength. They played very easy mins and still couldn't hold their own. This yr, Canucks have 2.5 pairing who can effectively eat 'tough minutes'. 2011 team, they had Hamhuis/Juice and sometimes Salo. This yr, Canucks have a way more versatile and stronger defensivly back end. They just don't have the depth beyond Ballard/Tanev that they did in 2011- esp on the right side.


I agree, I will take Hamhuis/Garrison over Edler/Ehrhoff every day of the week.

Garrison has been an outstanding addition, I said it at the time, during the lockout, even when he struggled, and I maintain it now.

Garrison is better for the playoffs than Ehrhoff, IMO that was an upgrade because they recent cup winners have succeeded with players like Garrison, big shutdown guys that can handle big bodies, top pairs, and can skate and move the puck up the ice. Garrison does all this and comes with the biggest shot I have seen in years in a Vancouver uniform.

This team is easily better on paper than the 2011 team. They just have to player like the 2011 team played and get that confidence. With Cory Schneider backing us up I could see it. I think Cory is someone who could have a Quick/Thomas esque playoff run and lead a team to a cup.
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#18 RunningWild

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:51 AM

I agree, I will take Hamhuis/Garrison over Edler/Ehrhoff every day of the week.

Garrison has been an outstanding addition, I said it at the time, during the lockout, even when he struggled, and I maintain it now.

Garrison is better for the playoffs than Ehrhoff, IMO that was an upgrade because they recent cup winners have succeeded with players like Garrison, big shutdown guys that can handle big bodies, top pairs, and can skate and move the puck up the ice. Garrison does all this and comes with the biggest shot I have seen in years in a Vancouver uniform.

This team is easily better on paper than the 2011 team. They just have to player like the 2011 team played and get that confidence. With Cory Schneider backing us up I could see it. I think Cory is someone who could have a Quick/Thomas esque playoff run and lead a team to a cup.


Ya, Garrison by himself is better defensivly that Edler/Erhoff combined that yr. I've been a big Garrison fan as well. He has stud underlying #'s while eating tough mins - I'll take that type of d-man any day over a guy who can barely handle sheltered mins (Erhoff). It's a luxury for a team to roll out 2 'shut down' type parings. Canucks can do that this yr - they couldn't in 2011.

Ya, confidence or swagger or whatever you'd call it might be an issue. Clearly Canucks org. agrees cause they recruited that European sports psychologist with the premise of "we're concerned about our team mentally after the Cup finals run". The problem this yr is they just haven't played will a full team yet. They really don't know how good they are, or can be, cause they've had the farm team playing in their bottom 6 for so long. Once Kesler comes back, we'll see the real team.
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#19 Avicii

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:55 AM

This team's playoff hopes rests solely on which Kesler shows up for the playoffs.

We ain't going nowhere if Kesler doesn't play at his best.
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#20 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:55 AM

Ya, Garrison by himself is better defensivly that Edler/Erhoff combined that yr. I've been a big Garrison fan as well. He has stud underlying #'s while eating tough mins - I'll take that type of d-man any day over a guy who can barely handle sheltered mins (Erhoff). It's a luxury for a team to roll out 2 'shut down' type parings. Canucks can do that this yr - they couldn't in 2011.

Ya, confidence or swagger or whatever you'd call it might be an issue. Clearly Canucks org. agrees cause they recruited that European sports psychologist with the premise of "we're concerned about our team mentally after the Cup finals run". The problem this yr is they just haven't played will a full team yet. They really don't know how good they are, or can be, cause they've had the farm team playing in their bottom 6 for so long. Once Kesler comes back, we'll see the real team.


Yeah its really that, on paper this team has all the tools it takes to win a cup, more so than before. We just have to play like we can and get lucky with injures and some bounces.
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#21 RunningWild

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:05 AM

Yeah its really that, on paper this team has all the tools it takes to win a cup, more so than before. We just have to play like we can and get lucky with injures and some bounces.


Ya, injuries, opponent and officiating will tell the tale. But I really like the looks of this years team.
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#22 Drouin

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:10 AM

This, the 2011 team had rock solid confidence. Even when they were down they knew they were good enough to easily come back. It was fun to watch a team with so much momentum and confidence. Maybe if we go on a run down the stretch this year we can regain some of that swagger.

I remember how many times they came back 😔. That was the best season in franchise history. Nobody can argue that.
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#23 uber_pwnzor

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 05:11 AM

I don't think we are, I really miss Salo and Erhoff.

What no one mentions is that the Sedins aren't as good as they were in 2011; they're still really, really good players, but not as good as they were back then. I doubt that they will ever be in the run for an Art Ross again...

Don't think Kesler is as good either, I mean: he scored 41 goals and won the Selke! Having such an amazingly good player on the second line was a treat!

So no, I don't think we're as good, but we're still a great team!

Edited by Republican Patriot, 07 April 2013 - 05:14 AM.

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#24 EagleShield

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 05:46 AM

Given that we had a power play when Kesler was "fit", I think we have what it takes this year. If Cory can keep playing like he is, 12 goals will win us a series.
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#25 wai_lai416

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 05:54 AM

not really.. in 2011 some of our player peaked out.. Sedins Kesler all had career years.. since then they haven't been able to get back to that level.. so it's possible they are already on a slow decline... how often in 2011 when u see the Sedins or Kesler dominate?? almost nightly.. how often have you seen Sedins or Kesler dominate since then?? once in a while.. 2011 sedins and kesler>>>>>>>>>>>>2013 sedins and kesler.. 2011 edler>>>>>>>>>2013 Edler.... Garrison and Tanev is not better than Salo and Erhoff when healthy.. since this is based on when healthy..... anyone that thinks our 2013 healthy lineup is better than our 2011 healthy lineup needs to wake up and come back to reality... I don't even recall this year a game against a top contender where the Sedin dominated the other team all game.. when in 2011 it happened more often than not..
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#26 Peaches

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:22 AM

not really.. in 2011 some of our player peaked out.. Sedins Kesler all had career years.. since then they haven't been able to get back to that level.. so it's possible they are already on a slow decline... how often in 2011 when u see the Sedins or Kesler dominate?? almost nightly.. how often have you seen Sedins or Kesler dominate since then?? once in a while.. 2011 sedins and kesler>>>>>>>>>>>>2013 sedins and kesler.. 2011 edler>>>>>>>>>2013 Edler.... Garrison and Tanev is not better than Salo and Erhoff when healthy.. since this is based on when healthy..... anyone that thinks our 2013 healthy lineup is better than our 2011 healthy lineup needs to wake up and come back to reality... I don't even recall this year a game against a top contender where the Sedin dominated the other team all game.. when in 2011 it happened more often than not..


They dominated L.A. in that 5-2 win.
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#27 Bring_Back_Bertuzzi

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:37 AM

it looks better on paper but if you watch them play its not even close.
sedins aren't as good as they were
kesler will get injured again
not as good defense as 2011
luo was in top 5 in the nhl for save % and GAA now hes our backup

Edited by mr.perfect101, 07 April 2013 - 06:38 AM.

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#28 The Brahma Bull

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 07:41 AM

Our D is horrendous this year. Edler is pretty painful to watch this year. I'm so used to Hamhuis being steady, but even he has been off this year.

Our power play (besides the finals) was unstoppable in 10-11. That power play struck fear into almost every team it faced. We knew what lines worked and there was an incredible chemistry with that team.

There are a few more games left in this season and I have no idea what will be the best combos for the 2nd and 3rd line. Let's just hope that they find their chemistry before the playoffs start.
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#29 CB007

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 07:46 AM

The D of the 2011 is better, but the 2013 forward group is better, especially now that we have Roy.

We are a better 5 on 5 team this year. In fact I think we relied on the 1st unit PP in 2011 too much. Hopefully with Roy our PP will get better from now on.
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#30 Legend Killer

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:02 AM

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i think we're getting hot at just the right time.
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For the first time in a long time.. the future looks bright..





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