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When healthy is this Canucks roster better than the 2011 Stanley Cup Final team?


Belsy91

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If completely healthy:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

Raymond - Kesler - Booth

Higgins - Roy - Hansen

Weise - Lapierre - Kassian

Ebbet/Pinizotto/Sestito/Schroeder

Hamhuis - Garrison

Edler - Bieksa

Ballard - Tanev

Schneider

Luongo

This team has WAY better forward depth. We have a lot of top-nine forwards. In 2011, we didn't have a 4th line at all. The defense now is probably weaker. We lost Ehrhoff and Salo but only signed Garrison to make up for it. Goaltending is a wash.

If healthy, I think we have the same chances. The issue is the other teams appear to have gotten "better". We'd have to go on a "hot" run like LA. I still think 2011 was the chance. The dream run. Their best shot at a Cup.

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we lost offense from backend erhcough and salo knew how to setup sedins vice versa. Dont discount that.

Garrison is a good closer so we are better defensively which will help in tight playoff games. Edler has something to prove from last playoffs. Tanev is the key.... he takes the next step and we are going far. Ballard is there just in case but tanev is key.

With roy kesler and booth our offense is better if we play with confidence of 2011.

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The 2011 team had more fun. They were so confidence, yes cocky but they were having fun. They cheered and high fived after every win. When we lost to the Bruins, they thought they had to play more businesslike to win. They were wrong. They need to go back to having fun, and acting cocky. Like the Kings did last year....its all about believing your the best team in the NHL. Any team can win it (I know because the year I won provincials, my team lost every game during the season...and then come provincials, we came together, decided to have fun, dance our troubles away..and we won. This is what the Canucks need to do!

Look how cocky Chicago is?? They arent that much better as a team as last year, they are just more confident.

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its true confidence is 90% of a sport but u need the raw will and talent to carry u the rest. We lost confidence after a few quick goals in boston. Thats a leadership issue ie Sedins need to give crap to players whichthey dont they lead by example.

Yzerman did it too so its not like its the worsed formula just not optimal.

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Frankly, I am less concerned with comparing the roster. My view (+/-/?):

+ we are not favorites, I like it much better this way

+ we have more Playoffs experience at the highest level

+ we seem to be getting healthier at the right time - hopefully Kesler ran out of faulty parts :-) He is key

+ we know upfront that relying on the Sedins alone will not work - this mentality will help

+ Schneids #1

- concerned with Edler's play

- concerned with AV being so stubborn in his ways

- as much as we want to believe we're tougher - we're not really (still a skilled team primarily)

- PP

? Roy - as much as people love him already (me too), I have no idea how tough he may be in the Playoffs

? AV - it is anybody's guess how much he has learned in the last years - we need to win different series in different ways and be able to quickly adapt to various situations - this is related to one of the "minuses" above

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The difference is other teams are better than 2011. That year we had the best team in the league by far. This year Chicago, Anaheim, Montreal, Pittsburgh are all better or just as good. Thus, it would be harder to win it all this year.

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I think goaltending and coaching will make the difference. The team can make an LA like run by adding Roy but are also one injury away from being knocked out early. I think the smart strategy for this team is to save energy by playing collapsing D and then pick spots on offense. If they try to dominate all ends of the ice they'll get tired and give up bad odd man rushes the other way like in previous years.

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Some teams have gotten better, yes, but a lot of the teams have gotten worse. I'd say the talent has spreadout abit more from Teams 1 through 15. Chicago and Anaheim are still pretty much the same team they ve always been.

Despite all the negativity. adding Roy is a huge development, considering we went to the finals with Lapierre as our 3rd line centre.

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Sedins & Burrows (now VS then):

It seems like a lot of people are really really really committed to believing that the Sedins have declined. But there’s really very little basis for such a claim. They're 31 freakin' years old people. Not 40. Not 35. 31. That’s not even old. That’s when guys are in the prime of their careers. This is especially true of guys like them who’s effectiveness doesn’t rely at all on sheer physical ability. Furthermore, their 5v5 numbers have been fine. More or less as good as ever. And that’s despite having to take a lot more defensive zone starts because of our lack of other centers for most of the year. Sure, the PP needs to get going but that obviously has a lot to do with missing our best PP player all year. To suggest that the Sedins abilities have somehow declined on the PP massively but not at all 5v5 is totally arbitray and implausible. They’re fine. They’re still elite players just as they were in 2011.

Kesler (now VS then):

Not even much to say here. The only time Kes hasn’t looked great as usual is when he’s been playing through injury which he won’t be when he comes back. “But he’s INJURY PRONE” I hear you saying. No. He’s not. Because that isn’t a thing. It only exists in your control freak brain that can’t accept that sometimes things in hockey happen for utterly random and unpredictable reasons.

Higgins, Hansen and Raymond (now VS then):

Much better, especially Hansen. This kid has always been a tenacious checker but his offensive game has really come along. He’s still not exactly a dominant scorer but in a 2/3 line role he’s gonna contribute some serious secondary offense. Higgins has been better too. He was good in 2011 but didn’t fully hit his stride until 2012. He has really developed into a great two way player. He pretty much does everything. He’s effective at both ends of the ice and can play anywhere with anyone. Raymond is having a great bounce back year too. To be fair, he was pretty good in 2011 before his injury too but I think this might be the best he’s ever played. All in all, our middle six wingers are going to be quite a bit better than in 2011.

Kassian VS Torres:

Kassian can be inconsistent. At times he’s struggled. But more often he’s looked pretty good. Overall he’s a nice asset in a 2nd or 3rd line role. He’s bigger, faster, and stronger than Torres and has a much stronger offensive touch. He’s put up essentially comparable numbers despite playing with the gaping offensive vacuum that is the Canucks bottom six centers this year and has way more potential to take off if played alongside a great center like Kesler. Also, if you take off your rose colored glasses you’ll note that Torres was super streaky himself. He’d come out some games and look great but completely disappear in others.

Samuelsson VS Booth:

Who the heck knows! We really have no idea what Booth is capable of. He’s been so devastated by injuries that he’s never really had a fair chance to show what he can do consistently. In any case, it’s pretty irrelevant. Booth is probably done for the season and Samuelsson only lasted a round and a half in 2011. Neither are especially relevant to their respective teams playoff success.

Roy VS Lappiere (as a 3rd line center):

Lapierre is a good defensive player and him stepping up in 2011 after Malhorta’s injury was very big. However, he has little to no offensive ability. As a result, he kinda sucks the life out of his linemates offensively. Roy is still solid defensively and a top 6 center by all rights. With him we’ve got one of the deepest center groups in the league. He’s shown instant chemistry with Higgins and Hansen. He’ll surely bring out the best in them and give us three dynamic scoring lines. I really cannot overstate what an improvement this is for us.

Lapierre (as a 4th line center) VS Bolduc? Hodgson? Malhorta (sans eye)?

Who was our 4th line center in 2011 again? Did we even have one? Our 4th line barely played and this was the reason. Meanwhile, Lapierre is a very solid defensive player and always steps up big come playoff time. I mean, this guy was our third line center in 2011 and we’re gonna be able to shift him down to the fourth line. That’s a massive improvement.

Wiese & Sestito VS Glass & Oreskovich:

Ug. Oreskovich. The guy had no drive. He obviously wasn’t fully committed to hockey. He wouldn’t hit or fight. Completely useless. And Glass was the exact opposite. Great drive but never had the physical tools to be especially effective. The guys we have now are a huge improvement. Wiese is actually a stellar possession player. He drives play into the offensive zone and can ever score occasionally. Sestito holds up okay defensively (he’s not great but not a liability either) and he finally gives us a really big heavyweight who can hit and mix things up. Combined with Lappy we’re gonna have a great 4th line that can actually play. They can take some defensive starts and take pressure off our other guys. In the end, I’ll acknowledge that a fourth line isn’t going to make or break our team but it’s a nice asset to have and it’ll definitely help.

Salo VS Garrison:

Hands down Garrison is a better player. They’re largely comparable in terms of skill set but Garrison just does everything a bit better. He’s a little bigger and definitely stronger. He can protect the front of the net. Salo was fine defensively but Garrison is just a really strong D man. Him with Hamhuis finally gives us a really exceptional and consistent shutdown D pairing. Plus, while both guys have big shots, Garrison is better at actually using him. Salo was always such a frustrating player. He had the ability but he rarely managed to actually put the puck on net. I think Salo would always look for the opening which meant he would usually just fire it over the net while trying to pick a corner. But Garrison isn’t afraid to just drill people which is what you gotta do. It creates rebounds and makes the other team pay for blocking up the front of the net. All in all a clear upgrade here.

Erhoff VS Tanev:

Sure, we had Tanev in 2011. But as pleasant a surprise as he was, he still played an extremely limited role. Current Tanev is ready to be a top 4 D man and play big minutes against even the toughest quality of competition. He’ll be huge, especially if we lose anyone to injury (which will probably happen at some point). As for Erhoff...apparently this is the chic thing among Canucks fans now. Apparently, Erhoff was totally the driving force behind the 2011 team. We just can’t hope to win without him. Ya, okay guys. Sure. In reality, Erhoff was a defensive liability. Despite his apparent scoring prowess he was -13 by the end of the playoffs. Will we lose something offensively without him? Sure. He was great in that department. But it’s not like we can’t replace those contributions. We’ve still got Edler and Bieksa and now Garrison who provides an upgrade on Salo and finally Hamhuis who has really developed him offensive game. Maybe our PP will never be quite as good but 5v5 we’re not much worse off offensively.

In the end, it’s tough to compare these guys because they are two polar opposite players in terms of what they bring to the table. It’s definitely a tradeoff as opposed to a case of one or the other being straight up better. It’s definitely a trade off I like though. I think makes a lot of sense. That 2011 team’s defence had an excess of offensive ability but a real lack of defense. Once you get past Hamhuis...well there’s Bieksa who was usually good but often highly unpredictable and Salo who was okay but that was about it. Adding another defensive D man, even at the expense of an offensive one will pay off bigtime, especially come playoff time where tight defensive play becomes all the more vital.

So all in all...yeah. We're better. We haven't exactly looked like it although when you realize that we've been without Kesler all year (not to mention a mountain of other injuries) this is not surprising. We're much deeper at center and should see more scoring from our middle 6 wingers. Our D is better too. Our PP will probably never be AS good as it was in 2011 but we make up for it 5v5 and defensively. And I'll take better defensive and 5v5 play over a good PP any day in the playoffs.

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Sedins & Burrows (now VS then):

It seems like a lot of people are really really really committed to believing that the Sedins have declined. But there’s really very little basis for such a claim. They're 31 freakin' years old people. Not 40. Not 35. 31. That’s not even old. That’s when guys are in the prime of their careers. This is especially true of guys like them who’s effectiveness doesn’t rely at all on sheer physical ability. Furthermore, their 5v5 numbers have been fine. More or less as good as ever. And that’s despite having to take a lot more defensive zone starts because of our lack of other centers for most of the year. Sure, the PP needs to get going but that obviously has a lot to do with missing our best PP player all year. To suggest that the Sedins abilities have somehow declined on the PP massively but not at all 5v5 is totally arbitray and implausible. They’re fine. They’re still elite players just as they were in 2011.

Kesler (now VS then):

Not even much to say here. The only time Kes hasn’t looked great as usual is when he’s been playing through injury which he won’t be when he comes back. “But he’s INJURY PRONE” I hear you saying. No. He’s not. Because that isn’t a thing. It only exists in your control freak brain that can’t accept that sometimes things in hockey happen for utterly random and unpredictable reasons.

Higgins, Hansen and Raymond (now VS then):

Much better, especially Hansen. This kid has always been a tenacious checker but his offensive game has really come along. He’s still not exactly a dominant scorer but in a 2/3 line role he’s gonna contribute some serious secondary offense. Higgins has been better too. He was good in 2011 but didn’t fully hit his stride until 2012. He has really developed into a great two way player. He pretty much does everything. He’s effective at both ends of the ice and can play anywhere with anyone. Raymond is having a great bounce back year too. To be fair, he was pretty good in 2011 before his injury too but I think this might be the best he’s ever played. All in all, our middle six wingers are going to be quite a bit better than in 2011.

Kassian VS Torres:

Kassian can be inconsistent. At times he’s struggled. But more often he’s looked pretty good. Overall he’s a nice asset in a 2nd or 3rd line role. He’s bigger, faster, and stronger than Torres and has a much stronger offensive touch. He’s put up essentially comparable numbers despite playing with the gaping offensive vacuum that is the Canucks bottom six centers this year and has way more potential to take off if played alongside a great center like Kesler. Also, if you take off your rose colored glasses you’ll note that Torres was super streaky himself. He’d come out some games and look great but completely disappear in others.

Samuelsson VS Booth:

Who the heck knows! We really have no idea what Booth is capable of. He’s been so devastated by injuries that he’s never really had a fair chance to show what he can do consistently. In any case, it’s pretty irrelevant. Booth is probably done for the season and Samuelsson only lasted a round and a half in 2011. Neither are especially relevant to their respective teams playoff success.

Roy VS Lappiere (as a 3rd line center):

Lapierre is a good defensive player and him stepping up in 2011 after Malhorta’s injury was very big. However, he has little to no offensive ability. As a result, he kinda sucks the life out of his linemates offensively. Roy is still solid defensively and a top 6 center by all rights. With him we’ve got one of the deepest center groups in the league. He’s shown instant chemistry with Higgins and Hansen. He’ll surely bring out the best in them and give us three dynamic scoring lines. I really cannot overstate what an improvement this is for us.

Lapierre (as a 4th line center) VS Bolduc? Hodgson? Malhorta (sans eye)?

Who was our 4th line center in 2011 again? Did we even have one? Our 4th line barely played and this was the reason. Meanwhile, Lapierre is a very solid defensive player and always steps up big come playoff time. I mean, this guy was our third line center in 2011 and we’re gonna be able to shift him down to the fourth line. That’s a massive improvement.

Wiese & Sestito VS Glass & Oreskovich:

Ug. Oreskovich. The guy had no drive. He obviously wasn’t fully committed to hockey. He wouldn’t hit or fight. Completely useless. And Glass was the exact opposite. Great drive but never had the physical tools to be especially effective. The guys we have now are a huge improvement. Wiese is actually a stellar possession player. He drives play into the offensive zone and can ever score occasionally. Sestito holds up okay defensively (he’s not great but not a liability either) and he finally gives us a really big heavyweight who can hit and mix things up. Combined with Lappy we’re gonna have a great 4th line that can actually play. They can take some defensive starts and take pressure off our other guys. In the end, I’ll acknowledge that a fourth line isn’t going to make or break our team but it’s a nice asset to have and it’ll definitely help.

Salo VS Garrison:

Hands down Garrison is a better player. They’re largely comparable in terms of skill set but Garrison just does everything a bit better. He’s a little bigger and definitely stronger. He can protect the front of the net. Salo was fine defensively but Garrison is just a really strong D man. Him with Hamhuis finally gives us a really exceptional and consistent shutdown D pairing. Plus, while both guys have big shots, Garrison is better at actually using him. Salo was always such a frustrating player. He had the ability but he rarely managed to actually put the puck on net. I think Salo would always look for the opening which meant he would usually just fire it over the net while trying to pick a corner. But Garrison isn’t afraid to just drill people which is what you gotta do. It creates rebounds and makes the other team pay for blocking up the front of the net. All in all a clear upgrade here.

Erhoff VS Tanev:

Sure, we had Tanev in 2011. But as pleasant a surprise as he was, he still played an extremely limited role. Current Tanev is ready to be a top 4 D man and play big minutes against even the toughest quality of competition. He’ll be huge, especially if we lose anyone to injury (which will probably happen at some point). As for Erhoff...apparently this is the chic thing among Canucks fans now. Apparently, Erhoff was totally the driving force behind the 2011 team. We just can’t hope to win without him. Ya, okay guys. Sure. In reality, Erhoff was a defensive liability. Despite his apparent scoring prowess he was -13 by the end of the playoffs. Will we lose something offensively without him? Sure. He was great in that department. But it’s not like we can’t replace those contributions. We’ve still got Edler and Bieksa and now Garrison who provides an upgrade on Salo and finally Hamhuis who has really developed him offensive game. Maybe our PP will never be quite as good but 5v5 we’re not much worse off offensively.

In the end, it’s tough to compare these guys because they are two polar opposite players in terms of what they bring to the table. It’s definitely a tradeoff as opposed to a case of one or the other being straight up better. It’s definitely a trade off I like though. I think makes a lot of sense. That 2011 team’s defence had an excess of offensive ability but a real lack of defense. Once you get past Hamhuis...well there’s Bieksa who was usually good but often highly unpredictable and Salo who was okay but that was about it. Adding another defensive D man, even at the expense of an offensive one will pay off bigtime, especially come playoff time where tight defensive play becomes all the more vital.

So all in all...yeah. We're better. We haven't exactly looked like it although when you realize that we've been without Kesler all year (not to mention a mountain of other injuries) this is not surprising. We're much deeper at center and should see more scoring from our middle 6 wingers. Our D is better too. Our PP will probably never be AS good as it was in 2011 but we make up for it 5v5 and defensively. And I'll take better defensive and 5v5 play over a good PP any day in the playoffs.

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what has to be understood as well is that other teams in the west have improved relative to van.

Chicago is back in form and better than 2011.

LA better coached and better than 2011

Blues as well

Wild are better

Ducks are retooled as well

In the east you got a lethal pen's team. Bruins are experienced but no Thomas. Price for he Habs.

Vancouver is one of the teams for sure but the road is a lot harder than it was in 11.

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Interesting thread... are we better than 2011? No. Could we be better than 2011? Yes. As people have pointed out, I think this group has a better overall mix of talent and skill (as well as being a tad bit tougher, although still not our strong suit.)

IF and it's a big "IF" we gel and get on a roll into the playoffs I think we can do some serious damage as I think this group has a higher ceiling talent-wise. Not to mention experience.

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Sedins & Burrows (now VS then):

It seems like a lot of people are really really really committed to believing that the Sedins have declined. But there’s really very little basis for such a claim. They're 31 freakin' years old people. Not 40. Not 35. 31. That’s not even old. That’s when guys are in the prime of their careers. This is especially true of guys like them who’s effectiveness doesn’t rely at all on sheer physical ability. Furthermore, their 5v5 numbers have been fine. More or less as good as ever. And that’s despite having to take a lot more defensive zone starts because of our lack of other centers for most of the year. Sure, the PP needs to get going but that obviously has a lot to do with missing our best PP player all year. To suggest that the Sedins abilities have somehow declined on the PP massively but not at all 5v5 is totally arbitray and implausible. They’re fine. They’re still elite players just as they were in 2011.

Kesler (now VS then):

Not even much to say here. The only time Kes hasn’t looked great as usual is when he’s been playing through injury which he won’t be when he comes back. “But he’s INJURY PRONE” I hear you saying. No. He’s not. Because that isn’t a thing. It only exists in your control freak brain that can’t accept that sometimes things in hockey happen for utterly random and unpredictable reasons.

Higgins, Hansen and Raymond (now VS then):

Much better, especially Hansen. This kid has always been a tenacious checker but his offensive game has really come along. He’s still not exactly a dominant scorer but in a 2/3 line role he’s gonna contribute some serious secondary offense. Higgins has been better too. He was good in 2011 but didn’t fully hit his stride until 2012. He has really developed into a great two way player. He pretty much does everything. He’s effective at both ends of the ice and can play anywhere with anyone. Raymond is having a great bounce back year too. To be fair, he was pretty good in 2011 before his injury too but I think this might be the best he’s ever played. All in all, our middle six wingers are going to be quite a bit better than in 2011.

Kassian VS Torres:

Kassian can be inconsistent. At times he’s struggled. But more often he’s looked pretty good. Overall he’s a nice asset in a 2nd or 3rd line role. He’s bigger, faster, and stronger than Torres and has a much stronger offensive touch. He’s put up essentially comparable numbers despite playing with the gaping offensive vacuum that is the Canucks bottom six centers this year and has way more potential to take off if played alongside a great center like Kesler. Also, if you take off your rose colored glasses you’ll note that Torres was super streaky himself. He’d come out some games and look great but completely disappear in others.

Samuelsson VS Booth:

Who the heck knows! We really have no idea what Booth is capable of. He’s been so devastated by injuries that he’s never really had a fair chance to show what he can do consistently. In any case, it’s pretty irrelevant. Booth is probably done for the season and Samuelsson only lasted a round and a half in 2011. Neither are especially relevant to their respective teams playoff success.

Roy VS Lappiere (as a 3rd line center):

Lapierre is a good defensive player and him stepping up in 2011 after Malhorta’s injury was very big. However, he has little to no offensive ability. As a result, he kinda sucks the life out of his linemates offensively. Roy is still solid defensively and a top 6 center by all rights. With him we’ve got one of the deepest center groups in the league. He’s shown instant chemistry with Higgins and Hansen. He’ll surely bring out the best in them and give us three dynamic scoring lines. I really cannot overstate what an improvement this is for us.

Lapierre (as a 4th line center) VS Bolduc? Hodgson? Malhorta (sans eye)?

Who was our 4th line center in 2011 again? Did we even have one? Our 4th line barely played and this was the reason. Meanwhile, Lapierre is a very solid defensive player and always steps up big come playoff time. I mean, this guy was our third line center in 2011 and we’re gonna be able to shift him down to the fourth line. That’s a massive improvement.

Wiese & Sestito VS Glass & Oreskovich:

Ug. Oreskovich. The guy had no drive. He obviously wasn’t fully committed to hockey. He wouldn’t hit or fight. Completely useless. And Glass was the exact opposite. Great drive but never had the physical tools to be especially effective. The guys we have now are a huge improvement. Wiese is actually a stellar possession player. He drives play into the offensive zone and can ever score occasionally. Sestito holds up okay defensively (he’s not great but not a liability either) and he finally gives us a really big heavyweight who can hit and mix things up. Combined with Lappy we’re gonna have a great 4th line that can actually play. They can take some defensive starts and take pressure off our other guys. In the end, I’ll acknowledge that a fourth line isn’t going to make or break our team but it’s a nice asset to have and it’ll definitely help.

Salo VS Garrison:

Hands down Garrison is a better player. They’re largely comparable in terms of skill set but Garrison just does everything a bit better. He’s a little bigger and definitely stronger. He can protect the front of the net. Salo was fine defensively but Garrison is just a really strong D man. Him with Hamhuis finally gives us a really exceptional and consistent shutdown D pairing. Plus, while both guys have big shots, Garrison is better at actually using him. Salo was always such a frustrating player. He had the ability but he rarely managed to actually put the puck on net. I think Salo would always look for the opening which meant he would usually just fire it over the net while trying to pick a corner. But Garrison isn’t afraid to just drill people which is what you gotta do. It creates rebounds and makes the other team pay for blocking up the front of the net. All in all a clear upgrade here.

Erhoff VS Tanev:

Sure, we had Tanev in 2011. But as pleasant a surprise as he was, he still played an extremely limited role. Current Tanev is ready to be a top 4 D man and play big minutes against even the toughest quality of competition. He’ll be huge, especially if we lose anyone to injury (which will probably happen at some point). As for Erhoff...apparently this is the chic thing among Canucks fans now. Apparently, Erhoff was totally the driving force behind the 2011 team. We just can’t hope to win without him. Ya, okay guys. Sure. In reality, Erhoff was a defensive liability. Despite his apparent scoring prowess he was -13 by the end of the playoffs. Will we lose something offensively without him? Sure. He was great in that department. But it’s not like we can’t replace those contributions. We’ve still got Edler and Bieksa and now Garrison who provides an upgrade on Salo and finally Hamhuis who has really developed him offensive game. Maybe our PP will never be quite as good but 5v5 we’re not much worse off offensively.

In the end, it’s tough to compare these guys because they are two polar opposite players in terms of what they bring to the table. It’s definitely a tradeoff as opposed to a case of one or the other being straight up better. It’s definitely a trade off I like though. I think makes a lot of sense. That 2011 team’s defence had an excess of offensive ability but a real lack of defense. Once you get past Hamhuis...well there’s Bieksa who was usually good but often highly unpredictable and Salo who was okay but that was about it. Adding another defensive D man, even at the expense of an offensive one will pay off bigtime, especially come playoff time where tight defensive play becomes all the more vital.

So all in all...yeah. We're better. We haven't exactly looked like it although when you realize that we've been without Kesler all year (not to mention a mountain of other injuries) this is not surprising. We're much deeper at center and should see more scoring from our middle 6 wingers. Our D is better too. Our PP will probably never be AS good as it was in 2011 but we make up for it 5v5 and defensively. And I'll take better defensive and 5v5 play over a good PP any day in the playoffs.

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