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Burn 2,998 Qurans to commemorate 9/11 12th anniversary


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#91 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:45 PM

There is good and bad to organization. I'm just saying that even without religion, different groups would be created that would end up leading to the same types of problems such as control and oppression.


Maybe. But we have yet to see atheists in the name of atheism, an extremist approach, organize large cults in an effort to stone gays among others and claim it as the will of the FSM. We're better off without religion and god or gods -- it's nothing more than primitive belief systems to explain reality which is obviously not applicable to the 21st century given how much we now know which evidently contradicts and disproves those primitive beliefs.

Edited by Tortorella's Rant, 12 April 2013 - 10:46 PM.

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#92 Buggernut

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:39 PM

Yes, because I'm so disturbed that I genuinely want him burned alive...

Nice to see you standing up for him again.


I suppose you could always turn to the "I was only joking" defense if trouble occurs.

FTR, I do not personally like the guy at all. However, I like even less the religious fanatics who would erupt and commit acts of violence and terror in reaction to his stunt, and will staunchly defend him on principle.
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#93 Common sense

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:47 PM

Common sense.


I'm not an expert on this issue.
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#94 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:49 AM

Maybe. But we have yet to see atheists in the name of atheism, an extremist approach, organize large cults in an effort to stone gays among others and claim it as the will of the FSM. We're better off without religion and god or gods -- it's nothing more than primitive belief systems to explain reality which is obviously not applicable to the 21st century given how much we now know which evidently contradicts and disproves those primitive beliefs.

No, but you do see atheists do plenty of horrible stuff in the name of nationalism, communism, racial supremacy, etc. That first sentence would have been a more appropriate response if a theist had claimed that atheism caused the crimes of the USSR or some bull like that.
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#95 Heretic

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:11 AM

Very wrong. We are where we are in the world because religion lost it's grip on societies. If religious leaders had their way back in the day, I bet we'd still be riding horses.


I'd rather believe Dr. Haidt then a biased opinion from someone who hates religion.
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Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#96 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:44 AM

I'd rather believe Dr. Haidt then a biased opinion from someone who hates religion.


Then I suggest you don't put all your faith in one person, even if he's a doctor.

From the article you referred to...

Other psychologists have mixed views about Dr. Haidt’s ideas.

Frans B. M. de Waal, a primatologist at Emory University, said he disagreed with Dr. Haidt’s view that the task of morality is to suppress selfishness. Many animals show empathy and altruistic tendencies but do not have moral systems.


Read up on the history of religion. You'll fine mass murder and oppression all in the name of religion. Don't be naive.

Edited by Gross-Misconduct, 13 April 2013 - 08:03 AM.

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#97 Heretic

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:31 AM

Then I suggest you don't put all your faith in one person, even if he's a doctor.

From the article you referred to...

Other psychologists have mixed views about Dr. Haidt’s ideas.

Frans B. M. de Waal, a primatologist at Emory University, said he disagreed with Dr. Haidt’s view that the task of morality is to suppress selfishness. Many animals show empathy and altruistic tendencies but do not have moral systems.


Read up on the history of religion. You'll fine mass murder and oppression all in the name of religion. Don't be naive.


It says he disagrees with 1 part of one of his views.

Read up on the history of mankind. You'll find more mass murder and oppression that wasn't done in the name of religion. Take off your blinders and fingers out of your ears.
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#98 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:11 AM

It says he disagrees with 1 part of one of his views.

Read up on the history of mankind. You'll find more mass murder and oppression that wasn't done in the name of religion. Take off your blinders and fingers out of your ears.


Wtf are you talking about? When did I say mass murder and oppression was exclusive to religion?

You can deny religion's ugly record in the history of mankind and put all your faith in the findings of one study from one psychologist if you want. I don't have blinders on my friend, but I think you do. And I think you are in denial.
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#99 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:28 AM

Wtf are you talking about? When did I say mass murder and oppression was exclusive to religion?

You can deny religion's ugly record in the history of mankind and put all your faith in the findings of one study from one psychologist if you want. I don't have blinders on my friend, but I think you do. And I think you are in denial.


lol...oh this wasn't meant as irony.


I agree with you thatreligion is in general bad especially looking at it's history. Like anything else there are good aspects to it especially individually but like anything else it fails on a more broad spectrum level. Just like any other organization. Look at broad spectrum news. It has people like you convinced that the middle east is some dangerous place filled with people who pull people out into the streets to murder them and will kill you if you burn a Quran.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 13 April 2013 - 10:32 AM.

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#100 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:33 AM

lol...oh this wasn't meant as irony.


I agree with you thatreligion is in general bad especially looking at it's history. Like anything else there are good aspects to it especially individually but like anything else it fails on a more broad spectrum level. Just like any other organization. Look at broad spectrum news. It has people like you convinced that the middle east is some dangerous place filled with people who pull people out into the streets to murder them and will kill you if you burn a Koran.


What am I denying? Do tell.
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#101 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:34 AM

What am I denying? Do tell.


reality.

That's the only part of that you want to comment on huh. Well then I guess that's the actual answer to your question isn't it?
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#102 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:36 AM

reality.

That's the only part of that you want to comment on huh. Well then I guess that's the actual answer to your question isn't it?


Nice try. Can't answer the question?
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#103 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:38 AM

Nice try. Can't answer the question?


I did answer the question.

Just because you can figure out the point doesn't mean the answer isn't there.

I'm sorry I forgot my spoon to feed you. :D
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#104 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:43 AM

here we go
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#105 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:44 AM

I did answer the question.

Just because you can figure out the point doesn't mean the answer isn't there.

I'm sorry I forgot my spoon to feed you. :D


I asked you what I was denying. You didn't answer that. You just said something about stereotypes of people killing in the streets of the middle east. When did I mention that's how I think all middle eastern people are like that? You're getting ahead of yourself and making an argument over what you perceived me to say.
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#106 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 10:48 AM

I asked you what I was denying. You didn't answer that. You just said something about stereotypes of people killing in the streets of the middle east. When did I mention that's how I think all middle eastern people are like that? You're getting ahead of yourself and making an argument over what you perceived me to say.


You're mixing up two different posts.

You asked me what you were denying and I literally said nothing that you said in response to that question. That was the post before and to avoid any confusion I promise you I will never answer a question by editing a post above it.

Also there is no perception going on at all. It's all stuff you've said in this thread about all Islamic people harboring murderous thoughts and people in the middle east dragging others into the streets to murder them. You do know what the word perceived means right?

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 13 April 2013 - 10:49 AM.

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#107 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:02 AM

You're mixing up two different posts.

You asked me what you were denying and I literally said nothing that you said in response to that question. That was the post before and to avoid any confusion I promise you I will never answer a question by editing a post above it.

Also there is no perception going on at all. It's all stuff you've said in this thread about all Islamic people harboring murderous thoughts and people in the middle east dragging others into the streets to murder them. You do know what the word perceived means right?


I asked if all practicing Muslims believe the Quran where it calls for people to be put to death for burning the Quran. That was my original question. An Egyptian court sentenced the pastor in this thread to death for his alleged involvement of that lame movie about Mohammed. People are quick to say extremists are responsible for all the death threats but this was an Egyptian court. When I saw that, it made me wonder if everyday Muslims feel the same way. So I asked the question.

As far as dragging corpses through the streets, I'm not saying it's an everyday occurrence, but when we do hear about it, it seems to come out of the middle east. And when was the last time you saw that happen in North America?
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#108 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:13 AM

I asked if all practicing Muslims believe the Quran where it calls for people to be put to death for burning the Quran. That was my original question. An Egyptian court sentenced the pastor in this thread to death for his alleged involvement of that lame movie about Mohammed. People are quick to say extremists are responsible for all the death threats but this was an Egyptian court. When I saw that, it made me wonder if everyday Muslims feel the same way. So I asked the question.

As far as dragging corpses through the streets, I'm not saying it's an everyday occurrence, but when we do hear about it, it seems to come out of the middle east. And when was the last time you saw that happen in North America?


At least you're clarifying these things. This would have been much better ways of putting these things in the first place rather than just making wildly ignorant blanket comments with no explanation.

Also...http://www.dailymail...ush-rescue.html


Like I said before. You've been duped by big media to believe these things only happen in the middle east. That's simply not true. Also believing that dragging a corpse through the street is an everyday sort of thing around there (I'm all prepared for your wtf where did I say it was everyday response) What happened to Christopher Stevens is unfortunate but as the link I provided above shows crazy people do crazy things everywhere. Just so happens religion does a great job of harboring nut jobs. I'll give you this though..you said it best when you said "when we hear about it". Do you just make the assumption that because that's the only time you hear about it that's the only time it happens? I know you make the assumption that because they are Islamic they will resort to murder.

This is what I'm talking about when I talk about your denial.

Edited by EmployeeoftheMonth, 13 April 2013 - 11:15 AM.

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#109 ThaBestPlaceOnEarth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:18 AM

How can anyone who considers themselves a person of faith wilfully burn the holy scriptures, no matter what faith they come from? The word of God is sacred and it's just an awful thing to be doing, horrible gesture. But at the same time, to mistake the physical object of scripture for the message contained within is an error in its own right.
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#110 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:21 AM

How can anyone who considers themselves a person of faith wilfully burn the holy scriptures, no matter what faith they come from? The word of God is sacred and it's just an awful thing to be doing, horrible gesture. But at the same time, to mistake the physical object of scripture for the message contained within is an error in its own right.


Seems like a catch 22. Maybe in this case he's not coming from a place of faith but a place of insecurity and anger.
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#111 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:32 AM

At least you're clarifying these things. This would have been much better ways of putting these things in the first place rather than just making wildly ignorant blanket comments with no explanation.

Also...http://www.dailymail...ush-rescue.html


Like I said before. You've been duped by big media to believe these things only happen in the middle east. That's simply not true. Also believing that dragging a corpse through the street is an everyday sort of thing around there (I'm all prepared for your wtf where did I say it was everyday response) What happened to Christopher Stevens is unfortunate but as the link I provided above shows crazy people do crazy things everywhere. Just so happens religion does a great job of harboring nut jobs. I'll give you this though..you said it best when you said "when we hear about it". Do you just make the assumption that because that's the only time you hear about it that's the only time it happens? I know you make the assumption that because they are Islamic they will resort to murder.

This is what I'm talking about when I talk about your denial.


You said I'm clarifying some things. That's good. Cause I have nothing against any people. Seriously, white black chinese, none of them. I have friends in all of them. It's religion's intolerance and denial of people's rights and freedoms that I don't like.

Asking if everyday Muslims agree with the Quran's request that anyone burning the Quran or ridiculing Mohammed in any way be put to death is just that. A question.

Because I have a hard time accepting organized religions, I also question why people who say they believe the holy scriptures are the words and wishes of whatever god they chose to worship, chose to follow some of the holy book and ignore the others.

I think the Quran's call for non-believers to be conquered, converted or killed is plainly laid out for all to see. If peaceful Muslims choose to no longer follow those commands, I'm happy for it.
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#112 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:44 AM

You said I'm clarifying some things. That's good. Cause I have nothing against any people. Seriously, white black chinese, none of them. I have friends in all of them. It's religion's intolerance and denial of people's rights and freedoms that I don't like.

But don't you see how you have also show your own intolerance in this thread? You've implied that all people who are Islamic are harboring murderous thoughts. You can say it was just a question but when you were given the answer you wouldn't accept it.

Asking if everyday Muslims agree with the Quran's request that anyone burning the Quran or ridiculing Mohammed in any way be put to death is just that. A question.

If it was just a question there would be no problem. I would say it was more of an implication phrased as a question. I could be wrong which is fine but I don't think I'm alone in thinking this is how you've presented this "question".

Because I have a hard time accepting organized religions, I also question why people who say they believe the holy scriptures are the words and wishes of whatever god they chose to worship, chose to follow some of the holy book and ignore the others.

But that's not what you've said here at all.

I think the Quran's call for non-believers to be conquered, converted or killed is plainly laid out for all to see. If peaceful Muslims choose to no longer follow those commands, I'm happy for it.

That's good. So then maybe stop making it seem like these things only happen in the middle east and only happen because of religion. It's kind of silly don't you think?
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#113 Gross-Misconduct

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 11:53 AM

That's good. So then maybe stop making it seem like these things only happen in the middle east and only happen because of religion. It's kind of silly don't you think?


Yes. That would be silly. But I never said that.
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#114 lowest common denominator

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:19 PM

Its all just a big misunderstanding guys. God/Allah/whatever, is the same being - Aliens from another world. Whichever book you read, you're reading about Extra terestrial Beings. They will be back soon and we can all have a big laugh about how facts got so convoluted and distorted in the Alien absence hahahahha...according to Ancient Alien Astronaut theorists....
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#115 key2thecup

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:47 PM

How can anyone who considers themselves a person of faith wilfully burn the holy scriptures, no matter what faith they come from? The word of God is sacred and it's just an awful thing to be doing, horrible gesture. But at the same time, to mistake the physical object of scripture for the message contained within is an error in its own right.


The guy's a fake Christian, really just a hardcore Islamophobe, and this is his shtick...... wouldn't be surprised if he's profiting off this somehow.

A true Christian pastor would probably invite a local Imam (Muslim priest?) over and have a discussion with him about 9/11 in front of his congregation. And the average Muslim priest would denounce the extreme actions of 9/11.
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#116 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:53 PM

Yes. That would be silly. But I never said that.


"stop making it seem" would be the key quote.
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#117 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

The guy's a fake Christian, really just a hardcore Islamophobe, and this is his shtick...... wouldn't be surprised if he's profiting off this somehow.

A true Christian pastor would probably invite a local Imam (Muslim priest?) over and have a discussion with him about 9/11 in front of his congregation. And the average Muslim priest would denounce the extreme actions of 9/11.


I can guarantee just the advertising alone will bring in more nut jobs under his wing which is what he really wants. Every crazy person wants a following.
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#118 Kass9

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:57 PM

What if it was a Muslim that was burning the Bible?

I'm pretty sure it'd be all over the news.
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#119 Heretic

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 01:00 PM

Wtf are you talking about? When did I say mass murder and oppression was exclusive to religion?

You can deny religion's ugly record in the history of mankind and put all your faith in the findings of one study from one psychologist if you want. I don't have blinders on my friend, but I think you do. And I think you are in denial.


When did I say it wasn't?

Yes, you didn't say it was exclusive - but you only show one side.
There has been a lot of good from religion as well (just like there has been a lot of good from mankind in general as well).

I'm not denying anything.

Religion itself isn't the cause of "the ugly record" you're talking about.
It's man using religion for his own purposes that is the cause.

BTW - there's only one "person" that I put my faith in, the rest are just men - so you can't put your faith in just one of them.
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#120 Tortorella's Rant

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:17 PM

No, but you do see atheists do plenty of horrible stuff in the name of nationalism, communism, racial supremacy, etc. That first sentence would have been a more appropriate response if a theist had claimed that atheism caused the crimes of the USSR or some bull like that.


But it isn't in the name of atheism like apologists claim. It's simply a power struggle -- an attempt to establish dominance and wither out anything that can oppose these people. The fact Stalin was an atheist and the atrocities his regime committed, for example, has nothing to do with atheism.
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