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Boston bombing thread. Please keep all talk here.


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#1381 aeromotacanucks

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:34 PM

it's not exactly paranoia if it's a real threat. but life goes on, people take the subway, go to public events etc... the only place i ever get checked is at public events like baseball games (which is standard practice around the world) and at the airport. that's not paranoia, it's completely normal. we're not as afraid as you think. i'm free and safe to walk around and go about my business as i please.



well i'm not fan of the republicans, but really for the most part they're asking for less control....

"let's invade the other country" is a pretty ridiculous statement. no one is saying we should invade NK or syria or anyone right now. iraq, the second time, was stupid i totally agree. but then again so do most americans. the FBI is a law enforcement agency. i don't understand why you're surprised they conduct anti-terrorism operations.

guantanamo is a completely different question. enemy combatants aren't covered by the constitution, especially if captured abroad. i wish they would close guantanamo and move the suspects to the US and put them on trial, but the republicans won't allow it.

i didn't entirely understand the middle part of your rant, but basically, we're not afraid of our house blowing up, but international terrorism is a reality. sorry if you think that's unreasonable. i grew up in paris during a time when we were victims of several attacks, and if you think you wouldn't be a little afraid too, you're nuts.

we don't simply kill the terrorists because once they're captured, there has to be a process. at this time everything is suspended, which i disagree with and hope is resolved soon. keep in mind that under international law, you're allowed to keep enemy combatants in custody.


I´m not surprised with that. actually I agree with the FBI security measures on the airport and other places, I fell safe. the only problem is that this thing should be constant, at all times and not only when crazy things happens. the problem is that the number of maniacs in USA are growing in a huge number and somehow people get citizenships without a good investigation. how many other possible terrorists are waiting for a further "activity"?Guantanamo should be closed. if the guy is a war criminal kill them, trial for what? give him a chance to set more terrorism in US soil? it´s too much burocracy for war crimes. terrorits don´t do "trials" with their prisoneers...
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#1382 Common sense

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:35 PM

That is truly hall of fame head buried in the sand stuff.

Seriously???

http://forum.canucks...0#entry11324912


From my post above, as well as multiple other posts in this thread:

"how often are training exercises done, how often are terrorism attacks, and how often do the two correlate?"
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#1383 DeNiro

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:36 PM

Two terrorist attacks against the US with months of warning before they happened.

You're telling me after 9/11 they wouldn't take every claim about possible terrorists seriously?

And they interviewed this guy and found nothing? Why just because he wasn't planning an attack at the time? :picard: Russian intelligence wouldn't just make it up without good reason.

One of your allies tells you there's a good chance this guy might be a threat, and you interview him once and that's it? No monitoring of him? No follow ups to see what he's doing when he gets back to the US?

Either you believe that US intelligence agencies are that incompetent (which I don't), or you believe that they allowed these attacks to happen. Whichever side you're on, you should at least be questioning these things.

But the government counts on anyone asking questions being attacked as a conspiracy nut. They need this to happen to allow them to keep operating without too much resistance.
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#1384 DeNiro

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:41 PM

Or let's get to the point and talk about the questions I posed for you and DarthNinja - how often are training exercises done, how often are terrorism attacks, and how often do the two correlate?

Feel free to answer them, or keep living in cookoo land.


Exactly the phenomenon that I was just pointing out. People who ask questions or go against the norm of thinking get called out as crazy.

None of these people asking question are crazy. Some of the extreme ones may be a little paranoid, but most are quite intelligent people just looking for answers. After 9/11 Americans would be crazy to not ask questions of their government.

But it's easier for people who are too lazy to look for any kind of truth to just accept it, and try and discredit anyone that is suspicious.

Edited by DeNiro, 23 April 2013 - 04:42 PM.

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#1385 La Mauviette75

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:55 PM

I´m not surprised with that. actually I agree with the FBI security measures on the airport and other places, I fell safe. the only problem is that this thing should be constant, at all times and not only when crazy things happens. the problem is that the number of maniacs in USA are growing in a huge number and somehow people get citizenships without a good investigation. how many other possible terrorists are waiting for a further "activity"?Guantanamo should be closed. if the guy is a war criminal kill them, trial for what? give him a chance to set more terrorism in US soil? it´s too much burocracy for war crimes. terrorits don´t do "trials" with their prisoneers...


well, the american constitution doesn't allow for a police state, so the price to pay for freedom is an attack once in a while. that's something most americans accept. someone's always going to slip through the cracks (especially people like these two guys, who lead pretty inconspicuous lives). i'm not sure that the "number of maniacs is growing". crime is down, and we hadn't had an attack since 9/11.

we don't just execute war criminals without trial because there needs to be some kind of process. that's how we do things here.
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#1386 DeNiro

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:09 PM

well, the american constitution doesn't allow for a police state, so the price to pay for freedom is an attack once in a while. that's something most americans accept. someone's always going to slip through the cracks (especially people like these two guys, who lead pretty inconspicuous lives). i'm not sure that the "number of maniacs is growing". crime is down, and we hadn't had an attack since 9/11.

we don't just execute war criminals without trial because there needs to be some kind of process. that's how we do things here.


Except the older brother didn't slip through the cracks. He was identified as a possible terrorist, and the FBI was well aware of him before he planned the attacks.

The men who were caught in Canada were being monitored for months before they were eventually arrested.

Why wouldn't the US do the same thing with a person that had been labelled as a terror suspect?
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#1387 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:10 PM

well, the american constitution doesn't allow for a police state, so the price to pay for freedom is an attack once in a while. that's something most americans accept. someone's always going to slip through the cracks (especially people like these two guys, who lead pretty inconspicuous lives). i'm not sure that the "number of maniacs is growing". crime is down, and we hadn't had an attack since 9/11.

we don't just execute war criminals without trial because there needs to be some kind of process. that's how we do things here.


You have more of your citizens locked up in jail than any other country in the world - per capita. 5% of the world's population, 25% of it's inmate population.
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#1388 Jägermeister

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:11 PM

Except the older brother didn't slip through the cracks. He was identified as a possible terrorist, and the FBI was well aware of him before he planned the attacks.

The men who were caught in Canada were being monitored for months before they were eventually arrested.

Why wouldn't the US do the same thing with a person that had been labelled as a terror suspect?


Maybe some US agencies are inept at their purpose?
Would not be the first time.
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#1389 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:17 PM

Except the older brother didn't slip through the cracks. He was identified as a possible terrorist, and the FBI was well aware of him before he planned the attacks.

The men who were caught in Canada were being monitored for months before they were eventually arrested.

Why wouldn't the US do the same thing with a person that had been labelled as a terror suspect?

According to the FBI press release they had investigated him and his family in 2011 found nothing that would raise a red flag and they closed his file.


Once the FBI learned the identities of the two brothers today, the FBI reviewed its records and determined that in early 2011, a foreign government asked the FBI for information about Tamerlan Tsarnaev. The request stated that it was based on information that he was a follower of radical Islam and a strong believer, and that he had changed drastically since 2010 as he prepared to leave the United States for travel to the country’s region to join unspecified underground groups.


In response to this 2011 request, the FBI checked U.S. government databases and other information to look for such things as derogatory telephone communications, possible use of online sites associated with the promotion of radical activity, associations with other persons of interest, travel history and plans, and education history. The FBI also interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev and family members. The FBI did not find any terrorism activity, domestic or foreign, and those results were provided to the foreign government in the summer of 2011. The FBI requested but did not receive more specific or additional information from the foreign government.

http://www.fbi.gov/n...eign-government
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#1390 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:18 PM

Maybe some US agencies are inept at their purpose?
Would not be the first time.

Never assume malice when incompetence or ineptitude is a more likely explanation.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it.

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Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#1391 DeNiro

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:23 PM

Maybe some US agencies are inept at their purpose?
Would not be the first time.


You can believe that. I don't though.

With the amount of money, resources, and man power US intelligence has in it's fight against terrorism, I don't buy that any threat of terrorism would be dismissed so easily, no matter how small.

And too many things "went wrong" on 9/11 on too many levels for it to just be counted as "whoops we screwed up". They had a report in the summer that said an Al qaeda attack with airplanes was likely imminent. It even had the World Trade Center as the number 1 target FFS.
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#1392 DeNiro

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:32 PM

According to the FBI press release they had investigated him and his family in 2011 found nothing that would raise a red flag and they closed his file.


I know that. I don't accept it though.

Surely if Russian intelligence can identify him as a terrorist, which they were right, US intelligence could do the same.

Americans spend billions on counterintelligence a year, and can't even follow up on a person that has being labelled a threat? There's no way any logical person cannot question that level of incompetence.
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#1393 La Mauviette75

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:42 PM

Except the older brother didn't slip through the cracks. He was identified as a possible terrorist, and the FBI was well aware of him before he planned the attacks.


Well they investigated him but didn't find anything crazy. They got a tip but it wasn't like they knew he was a terrorist for sure
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#1394 La Mauviette75

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:45 PM

You have more of your citizens locked up in jail than any other country in the world - per capita. 5% of the world's population, 25% of it's inmate population.


I also am appalled by the incarceration rates (mostly due to the bogus war on drugs). What's your point?
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#1395 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 05:55 PM

I also am appalled by the incarceration rates (mostly due to the bogus war on drugs). What's your point?


Land of the FREE home of the brave :lol:
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#1396 La Mauviette75

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:00 PM

Land of the FREE home of the brave :lol:


Well yeah, criminals don't get the whole freedom part.
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#1397 Mike Vanderhoek

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:08 PM

Except the older brother didn't slip through the cracks. He was identified as a possible terrorist, and the FBI was well aware of him before he planned the attacks.

The men who were caught in Canada were being monitored for months before they were eventually arrested.

Why wouldn't the US do the same thing with a person that had been labelled as a terror suspect?



They probably have done so in the past. It really is a case of slipping throuhg the cracks, I mean the amount of people being monitored or labelled of interest I am sure far exceeds the realistic capabilities of the FBI and such agencies....there simply is too many people to keep an eye on....

Nothing more.
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#1398 Buddhas Hand

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:16 PM

Well yeah, criminals don't get the whole freedom part.


These are stats from a book called Derailing Democracy by David Gowan , in 1991 there was roughly 19,000 people in jail in California , a couple of years later many jails were privatised and their inmates were hired out with the money going to the companies who owned the jails. By 1999 there was nearly 100, 000 people in jail and as one executive said to a nike executive , why go overseas for cheap labour when we can provide it here in america.
Lock up your poor and marginalised and sell their labour off cheaply , way to go america.
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The Real war is not between the east and the west. The real war is between intelligent and stupid people.

Marjane Satrapi

tony-abbott-and-stephen-harper-custom-da

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach.

Aldous Huxley.


#1399 Kakanucks

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:17 PM

To the people that believe everything they see on the news:


"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years."

"It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."

- David Rockefeller.

The rich and the powerful own the news outlets.


For the people who don't believe some of the bombs were a drill, take a gander at this;

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This is apparently taken couple minutes after one of the "bombs" went off.

Notice the guy in the middle with the shades and the hoodie.. No emotions... just looking up, waiting for a cue like an actor.

Take a look at all the others around him.. No sense of shock or agonizing pain.

Now take a look at one of the most shared picture on twitter during the bombings.

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Notice how his legs exploded off... I'm no doctor but wouldnt an exploded off leg spew uncontrollable amouts of blood?

Where is the trail of blood? Look behind the asian lady behind him and ask yourself why isn't he bleeding out?

This guy was named Nick Vogt at the time. But a few days later his name was apparently Jeff Baumen?? Dafuq?

Posted Image

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Wake up people.


they look nothing alike, different nose, eyes are totally different shape......
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#1400 DeNiro

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:20 PM

Well they investigated him but didn't find anything crazy. They got a tip but it wasn't like they knew he was a terrorist for sure


Yet Russia somehow knew he was up to something? They knew he was a radical Islamic. How is that "nothing crazy".

Oh and here's another angle to the incompetence if you wanna believe it. Apparently the FBI didn't even know he went to Chechnya because someone spelled his name wrong in the computer. :picard:

You're telling me this is the level of sophistication the US government has?

“One of two things happened,” Graham said Monday on Fox News, “the FBI either dropped the ball or our system doesn’t allow the FBI to follow this guy in an appropriate fashion. I think once the Russians made the request, the FBI did a good job of looking at him. The reason we didn’t know he went to Russia is because the name was misspelled.”


http://www.politico....trip-90416.html

Expect more civil liberties to be taken away in the following months.

Edited by DeNiro, 23 April 2013 - 06:23 PM.

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#1401 apollo

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:14 PM

Two terrorist attacks against the US with months of warning before they happened.

You're telling me after 9/11 they wouldn't take every claim about possible terrorists seriously?

And they interviewed this guy and found nothing? Why just because he wasn't planning an attack at the time? :picard: Russian intelligence wouldn't just make it up without good reason.

One of your allies tells you there's a good chance this guy might be a threat, and you interview him once and that's it? No monitoring of him? No follow ups to see what he's doing when he gets back to the US?

Either you believe that US intelligence agencies are that incompetent (which I don't), or you believe that they allowed these attacks to happen. Whichever side you're on, you should at least be questioning these things.

But the government counts on anyone asking questions being attacked as a conspiracy nut. They need this to happen to allow them to keep operating without too much resistance.


After 9/11?? Which has been proven to be an inside job in every aspect and detail?

I recommend u check out loose change documentary ... its on YouTube fully. Surely u won't think 9/11 was an actual terrorist attack after.
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#1402 DarthNinja

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:22 PM

Never assume malice when incompetence or ineptitude is a more likely explanation.


Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
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"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

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"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#1403 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:23 PM

Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

No most definitely not.
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#1404 DeNiro

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:26 PM

After 9/11?? Which has been proven to be an inside job in every aspect and detail?

I recommend u check out loose change documentary ... its on YouTube fully. Surely u won't think 9/11 was an actual terrorist attack after.


I've watched that documentary. Quite a bit of speculation though.

It was a terrorist attack. The only question is who orchestrated it in my mind. Whether it was an inside job or not, it was still terrorism. Since terrorism by your own government is still terrorism.
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#1405 DarthNinja

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:33 PM

No most definitely not.


Yes, more than likely.
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"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

rsz_theylive.jpg 11477626583_2368927097.jpg  7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#1406 DeNiro

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:36 PM

No most definitely not.


So just claim incompetence and you get off scott free?

Hmm didn't know it worked that way.
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#1407 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:37 PM

Yes, more than likely.

Only if you do not comprehend the difference between the terms "incompetence" or "ineptitude" and "malice". They are miles apart.
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To err is human - but to really screw up you need a computer.

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Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

#1408 DarthNinja

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:37 PM

So just claim incompetence and you get off scott free?

Hmm didn't know it worked that way.


That, and...


Edited by DarthNinja, 23 April 2013 - 07:37 PM.

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"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

rsz_theylive.jpg 11477626583_2368927097.jpg  7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#1409 DarthNinja

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:38 PM

Only if you do not comprehend the difference between the terms "incompetence" or "ineptitude" and "malice". They are miles apart.


I disagree.
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"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens & the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We (Allah) parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" (Qur'an 21:30)

rsz_theylive.jpg 11477626583_2368927097.jpg  7649118508_ce3e8a74a1_o.jpg

"Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (David Rockefeller)


#1410 Wetcoaster

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:44 PM

So just claim incompetence and you get off scott free?

Hmm didn't know it worked that way.

I never said that.

And it does not,
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