Gman Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 2012 - Quick was a Vezina candidate, why would they bring in a veteran - Schneider is not a Vezina candidate 2010 - Huet was a sieve and everyone knew - Luongo is not 2008 - Osgood, although he isn't Hasek, was a 2-time Jennings Trophy winner, 1-time Vezina finalist, and 2-time Stanley Cup champion (1 as a starter) prior to 2008, and Babcock went to him only after Hasek failed - Schneider has 1 Jennings 2006 - Similarly, Ward was not the 1st choice, as Gerber started the playoffs and lost the first two games against Montreal, and only then did Laviolette turn to a rookie in Ward in desperation - AV also turned to Schneider exactly the way Laviolette did after Luongo lost the first two games - Schneider failed to do what Ward accomplished 1990 - Again, no choice but to start Ranford due to the suspension - Canucks still have a choice of starting Luongo 1989 - Vernon was a Vezina finalist this season, and had already been the the SCF in his rookie season as a starter: in other words, he was already a proven performer by his 3rd season - something Schneider has not yet done 1986 - Yes, that was Patrick Roy - GOAT behind Brodeur - Schneider is not Patrick Roy (give your head a shake) 1971 - anything that dates back this far is a moot point in arguments - the game of hockey has changed drastically since Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mookie Wilson Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 The best goalie should play. Schneider is better than Luongo. Why has nobody yet pointed to the data? 2011-2012 RL: .919, 2.41, .56 winning % CS: .937, 1.96, .64 winning % 2012 playoffs RL: .891, 3.59, .00 winning % CS: .960, 1.31, .33 winning % 2013 RL: .913, 2.34, .50 winning % CS: .924, 2.20, .54 winning % Career RL: .919, 2.51, .47 winning % CS: .927, 2.23, .55 winning % Anybody else notice a pattern? Hint: each one of Schneider's stats is superior to Luongo's corresponding stat. Note: I included overtime and shootout losses as losses for the winning % calculation. Edited for clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 All irrelevant to the point which has been, you can't suceed in the playoffs without experience as a back stopper which is why Lou should play from the Lou camp. All these examples prove the opposite of that point. Btw some of your facts are off...in particular with regards to Osgood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanNuck Posted April 20, 2013 Author Share Posted April 20, 2013 Clearly having the most experience is always the best way to go: 2012, the Kings should have brought in a veteran goalie for the playoffs rather than going with the relatively young and inexperienced Quick... 2010, the Hawks should have gone with the more experienced Cristobal Huet in the post-season... 2008, the Wings were crazy not to have the legendary Dominic Hasek as their post-season starter... 2006, Carolina must have been out of their minds riding rookie and backup Cam Ward through the playoffs... 1990, Must have been pure luck that Edmonton managed to win the cup with a relatively inexperienced Bill Ranford after starter Grant Fuhr was suspended for the season... 1989, it is a wonder the Flames somehow managed to win the cup with Mike Vernon in net who was playing in only his 3rd season as an NHL goaltender and second as the Flames starter... 1986, somehow the Montreal Canadiens win the cup with a rookie goaltender named Patrick Roy... 1971, Ken Dryen leads the Canadiens to the cup while only having a grand total of 6 regular season NHL games of experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanNuck Posted April 20, 2013 Author Share Posted April 20, 2013 I would say the point about Quick, Vernon and especially Osgood is very relevant to that point. Although young, Quick and Vernon were already somewhat proven and experienced in the playoffs, and Osgood was very experienced. I don't know what facts were off regarding Osgood? Please do tell and elaborate. And if Luongo fans are saying that experience is the only reason why they think Luongo should start game 1 instead of Schneider, then that's a pretty weak argument. Schneider has shown he can play at a high level and I believe he will give us a chance to win each game in the playoffs. I do believe Schneider is the starter on this team and that he will start for the Canucks in game 1 of the Stanley Cup playoffs. It's no secret that I want to see Luongo get a chance too, but that presupposes that Schneider gets into some troubles, which is not good for this team. Ultimately, whether with Luongo as backup or starter, I want to see the Canucks lift the Cup this year. Schneider will be the starter, but Luongo will be ready and breathing down his neck. Luongo is approaching this like the Olympics - he didn't start the tournament, but he finished it with authority. I hope to see him return. Bottom line - best goalie should play. Right now, it's Schneider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I would say the point about Quick, Vernon and especially Osgood is very relevant to that point. Although young, Quick and Vernon were already somewhat proven and experienced in the playoffs, and Osgood was very experienced. I don't know what facts were off regarding Osgood? Please do tell and elaborate. And if Luongo fans are saying that experience is the only reason why they think Luongo should start game 1 instead of Schneider, then that's a pretty weak argument. Schneider has shown he can play at a high level and I believe he will give us a chance to win each game in the playoffs. I do believe Schneider is the starter on this team and that he will start for the Canucks in game 1 of the Stanley Cup playoffs. It's no secret that I want to see Luongo get a chance too, but that presupposes that Schneider gets into some troubles, which is not good for this team. Ultimately, whether with Luongo as backup or starter, I want to see the Canucks lift the Cup this year. Schneider will be the starter, but Luongo will be ready and breathing down his neck. Luongo is approaching this like the Olympics - he didn't start the tournament, but he finished it with authority. I hope to see him return. Bottom line - best goalie should play. Right now, it's Schneider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Oh yeah, I forgot, the Canucks are a dynasty. I guess the Sedins are Gretzky and Kurri who can dance around the ice and put the puck away, no matter who the competition. I suppose Ryan Kesler is Anze Kopitar who does destruction on the opposition. Or is Edler Nicklas Lidstrom who just does it all for the Nucks? People like to talk about the goaltender and how he constantly melts down and all - they completely overlook the fact that the problem lies with the whole team. Sure, Lu has had his meltdowns - but other than the Chicago debacle or the Boston finals (where things wouldn't have mattered anyway), he still came through when everyone else fell away, yet he gets all the blame. I agree though, he wanted out, and I accepted that, but it didn't happen. So realistically, he has no choice. If his contract weren't so large as it is, he would have been traded and even I would have accepted that (providing they get someone good in return). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutal_reality Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Funny how Corey can do no wrong with certain people. It's even funnier that those certain people seem to forget about the 45 shots per game Lou was saving for the last how many seasons to help get the team where they are today. Let's see Schneids do that for a few seasons before we declare him the golden boy. Seems to me those straight shots are going in way more often than with Luongo. At least it was nhl superstars doing it to Lou "in the playoffs when they were supposed to". Without the refs or the league helping.....there isn't a team in the NHL that can beat the Canucks. Anyone who blames Luongo for losing to boston, or for last season for that matter, should pull their heads out of their buttocks. The goalie has no control over the guys in front of him (his team) rippling the mesh at the other end. Here's a test for you haters. First strap on the goalie pads. Next, go separate one of your key player's shoulders. Then break one of your key players backs. Don't foget to suspend the grit for a few games also. Then have all the officiating in your series be biased against your team just as the other teams goalie goes on a hot streak (which is pretty easy when your team get's a pp every time they look at you wrong lol) and let me know the outcome. Only then can you gripe about Luongo and how bad he supposedly is. Give the helm to Luongo for the playoffs, we will succeed if the team plays the way they can, and the refs call a real game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Put Jonathan Quick on this Canucks team. At best, he probably can get to the second round, the way they are playing. Quick plays on a stacked team (albeit one that underperformed in the regular season). We agree that Luongo is a generational talent, one that had a Roy-like ceiling, only he didn't reach it. He's had a self-destructive attitude, giving way to his fall, and Schneider took over and is excelling. Luongo's corrected his attitude, but Schneids is still on the roll, so he continues to start. But again, I still think he'll only roll so far in the playoffs, particularly with this team. Again on Luongo, it's a waste to let him rot out like this, especially now that he looks like he could come out swinging. Can he win the Cup with this Canucks team (after I said Schneider can't)? Probably not, but he can prove his value so that someone will trade for him in the summer (won't happen if he sits). Or, then again, he'll go on an all-out tear if he's really determined - and finally reach that Patrick Roy ceiling that he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Again on this, Luongo's value isn't going up if we play him. Its not, everyone knows what he will bring to the table, 4 games and a 1st or 2nd round playoff run aren't going to improve his value, we should go with the guy who is at the top of his game, thats Schneider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thema Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 The cult of Lou is interesting for sure; they remind me of all those Germans in early 1945 that kept saying that the Fuhrer had miracle weapons that would instantly turn the war around for them if only they gave him a bit more time. The SCF was Lou's Stalingrad; it's all going to be downhill from here on in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus099 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 So he couldn't have been sure of that in 2011 when the Stanley Cup was on the line?? If he didn't give up 20 goals in 4 games +8 minutes he might have a Stanley Cup and wouldn't have to worry about his career right now. He would be immortal in Vancouver. As far as I'm concerned, Luongo has signed his own death warrant by having so many weak games in the playoffs year after year. Why should the team take another chance this year of repeating that same song and dance with him? That's the definition of insanity. He was/is supposed to be an elite, world class, top of the line player at his position, but despite that, and even if the team is playing like sh!t when we lose, he still gives up as many goals as Dan Cloutier would. Luongo has had his opportunities here with some very good teams and he has not been able to deliver consistent "world-class" performances. This is Cory's time now and he doesn't even have as much to work with team-wise as Luongo once did. If Cory doesn't do well in the playoffs, then I for one am quite sure that Luongo would do worse if he were to be given the net instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5minutesinthebox Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 We'll see who the clueless one is, Mr. Where was Henrik and Daniel in Boston, when Lu was struggling in Game 6 or 7? Where were they that same year in the first round against Chicago? Anyway, where are they in the playoffs - and where are you right now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus099 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 The best goalie should play. Schneider is better than Luongo. Why has nobody yet pointed to the data? 2011-2012 RL: .919, 2.41, .56 winning % CS: .937, 1.96, .64 winning % 2012 playoffs RL: .891, 3.59, .00 winning % CS: .960, 1.31, .33 winning % 2013 RL: .913, 2.34, .50 winning % CS: .924, 2.20, .54 winning % Career RL: .919, 2.51, .47 winning % CS: .927, 2.23, .55 winning % Anybody else notice a pattern? Hint: each one of Schneider's stats is superior to Luongo's corresponding stat. Note: I included overtime and shootout losses as losses for the winning % calculation. Edited for clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Even if it did raise his value who cares. You don't play a player in the playoffs to showcase his value, the arguement is ridiculous. Maybe Ballard should be given the most ice-time on the back end, you know to increase his trade value. Maybe if/when Booth comes back he should play on the top line with Ebbett and Weise, you know so we can increase their trade value... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmpunk Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I say let Schneider play, then we will see the common posters here(Smashian Kassian for example) blame the scoring this time, after we get eliminated while still blaming Lu for the SCF at the same time....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Burrows 14 Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 it wasn't all his, but 5 goals on 30 shots? you can't put 100% of the blame on everyone else for that. some of it is on him as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I say let Schneider play, then we will see the common posters here(Smashian Kassian for example) blame the scoring this time, after we get eliminated while still blaming Lu for the SCF at the same time....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Your brain sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I say let Schneider play, then we will see the common posters here(Smashian Kassian for example) blame the scoring this time, after we get eliminated while still blaming Lu for the SCF at the same time....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.