The Workout Thread

[riffraff]

No no no. Chiropractors are quacks.

I would suggest your first plan - going to a doctor (chiropractors are not doctors; nowhere close).

Either do that or go to a physiotherapist if it does not get better.

Do tell us what your experience with chiropractors has been in order to make such a statement.

[JohnLocke]

Do tell us what your experience with chiropractors has been in order to make such a statement.

I have no personal experience with chiropractors but the foundation of their practice is not on evidence based medicine. They're as good as homeopathic doctors. I'd suggest doing a bit of googling and you will see what I'm talking about.

Or even wikipedia. Here's a good summary if you don't want to do all the research yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism

I'm not saying that they're all useless; what I'm saying is that you should see an actual MD who will know way more than a chiropractor.

Edit: also as a medical student, I can tell you that although I don't know very much atm, it seems the general opinion from most doctors is that chiropractors are no better than snake oil salesmen

Edited April 19, 2015 by JohnLocke

[Duodenum]

I have no personal experience with chiropractors but the foundation of their practice is not on evidence based medicine. They're as good as homeopathic doctors. I'd suggest doing a bit of googling and you will see what I'm talking about.

Or even wikipedia. Here's a good summary if you don't want to do all the research yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism

I'm not saying that they're all useless; what I'm saying is that you should see an actual MD who will know way more than a chiropractor.

Edit: also as a medical student, I can tell you that although I don't know very much atm, it seems the general opinion from most doctors is that chiropractors are no better than snake oil salesmen

FYI, when it comes to lower back pain, I'd put Chiro's at equal footing with MD's.

Low back pain is very poorly treated in the medical community, but is USUALLY self-limiting thankfully.

When it isn't and not surgically repairable, then an MD's pretty limited in his treatment options.

You've got NSAIDs 1st line (along with non-pharm: heat/postural changes/physio). If NSAIDs don't work you move onto opiods which very often do more harm than help in this case and aren't much of a benefit in terms of pain relief in low back pain.

Chiro can save a patient from months/years of drug use and even surgery in lower back pain. Not to mention patient preference will typically lean quite heavily on the chiro side over drug use and surgery.

Chiropractic practice isn't high on evidence (quite difficult to do so as well seeing as how patient's cannot be blinded) but even if it's just a placebo effect, it's important to remember that the placebo effect is still providing benefit to the patient.

[JohnLocke]

FYI, when it comes to lower back pain, I'd put Chiro's at equal footing with MD's.

Low back pain is very poorly treated in the medical community, but is USUALLY self-limiting thankfully.

When it isn't and not surgically repairable, then an MD's pretty limited in his treatment options.

You've got NSAIDs 1st line (along with non-pharm: heat/postural changes/physio). If NSAIDs don't work you move onto opiods which very often do more harm than help in this case and aren't much of a benefit in terms of pain relief in low back pain.

Chiro can save a patient from months/years of drug use and even surgery in lower back pain. Not to mention patient preference will typically lean quite heavily on the chiro side over drug use and surgery.

Chiropractic practice isn't high on evidence (quite difficult to do so as well seeing as how patient's cannot be blinded) but even if it's just a placebo effect, it's important to remember that the placebo effect is still providing benefit to the patient.

Placebo only works if we stop spilling the secret in this thread

[taxi]

That being said, though, is eating nutritious food not better for your general health? You can lose weight eating McDonalds every day, but you probably won't be getting the nutrients you need.

Yes and no.

People have skewed ideas of what "nutritious" is. In fact, I'd argue the word does not really relate to the modern diet, which includes an excess of nutrition. It's really just a buzz word at this point, with little to no meaning.

The problem becomes when people start putting the focus on "nutrition" and create all sorts of weird rules from themselves which are not founded in science.

I had a friend who wanted to lose weight. He read somewhere that eating less red meat would help. So he stopped eating red meat. The problem was he continued to eat lots of rice and other complex carbs. His calorie count remained high, his protein dropped. He lost his muscle mass, but retained the fat.

And no, I wouldn't recommend having every meal at McDonalds, but the occasional Big Mac is not going to kill you, as long as the rest of your diet is in check.

[riffraff]

I have no personal experience with chiropractors but the foundation of their practice is not on evidence based medicine. They're as good as homeopathic doctors. I'd suggest doing a bit of googling and you will see what I'm talking about.

Or even wikipedia. Here's a good summary if you don't want to do all the research yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism

I'm not saying that they're all useless; what I'm saying is that you should see an actual MD who will know way more than a chiropractor.

Edit: also as a medical student, I can tell you that although I don't know very much atm, it seems the general opinion from most doctors is that chiropractors are no better than snake oil salesmen

So no personal experience.

No comparitive experience and or facts.

And you're a student. Not a doctor.

Stop making ridiculous statements as facts.

My experience with doctors re back pain:

Take drugs and stop doing what you're doing or we can perform surgery.

My experience with chiropractic care/acupuncture/massage:

Healing after car accidents, injuries from contact sports, injuries from falls, improvement of mobility, relief of pain, improved strength, general wellness and quality of life.

I respect doctors but I wouldn't and don't disrespect alternative sources of health improvement.

[JohnLocke]

So no personal experience.

No comparitive experience and or facts.

And you're a student. Not a doctor.

Stop making ridiculous statements as facts.

My experience with doctors re back pain:

Take drugs and stop doing what you're doing or we can perform surgery.

My experience with chiropractic care/acupuncture/massage:

Healing after car accidents, injuries from contact sports, injuries from falls, improvement of mobility, relief of pain, improved strength, general wellness and quality of life.

I respect doctors but I wouldn't and don't disrespect alternative sources of health improvement.

Did you do any research into the topic? Did you even read what I posted? Chiropractor was established as a religion because it was refused to be accepted as the practice of medicine.

Let me quote since you're too lazy to read:

" For most of its existence, chiropractic has battled with mainstream medicine, sustained by antiscientific and pseudoscientific ideas such as subluxation."

And

"Chiropractic researchers have documented that fraud, abuse and quackery are more prevalent in chiropractic than in other health care professions.^[8] Unsubstantiated claims about the efficacy of chiropractic have continued to be made by individual chiropractors and chiropractic associations.^[3] The core concept of traditional chiropractic, vertebral subluxation, is not based on sound science.^[3] Collectively, systematic reviews have not demonstrated that spinal manipulation, the main treatment method employed by chiropractors, waseffective for any medical condition, with the possible exception of treatment for back pain.^[3] Although rare,^[9] spinal manipulation, particularly of the upper spine, can also result in complications that can lead to permanent disability or death; these can occur in adults^[10] and children."

And here's the best one yet...

"Chiropractors historically were strongly opposed to vaccination based on their belief that all diseases were traceable to causes in the spine, and therefore could not be affected by vaccines; D.D. Palmer wrote, "It is the very height of absurdity to strive to 'protect' any person from smallpox or any other malady by inoculating them with a filthy animal poison."^[12] Some chiropractors continue to be opposed to vaccination, one of the most effective public health measures in history"

Also,

"A study of California disciplinary statistics during 1997–2000 reported 4.5 disciplinary actions per 1000 chiropractors per year, compared to 2.27 for medical Doctors, and the incident rate for fraud was 9 times greater among chiropractors (1.99 per 1000 chiropractors per year) than among medical Doctors (0.20).^[42] According to a 2006 Gallup Poll of U.S. adults, when asked how they would "rate the honesty and ethical standards of people in these different fields", chiropractic compared unfavorably with mainstream medicine. When chiropractic was rated, it "rated dead last amongst healthcare professions"."

Finally: chiropractor school in canada is only a 4 year bachelor's degree and requires only a minimum gpa of 2.5 to apply... I know some pretty dumb people who can pull off 2.5's

To be a doctor in Canada, generally you need a 4 year bachelors degree + 4 years of medical school + 2-5 years of residency. To even get into a Canadian medical school, your GPA has to be fantastic (3.9+), you have to pass an gruelling interview process, and have amazing extracurriculars.

I'd trust a doctor way more than a chiropractor.

That experience statement is ridiculous. I don't need experience to say that anti vaxxers are crazy and probably shouldn't be treating anyone for anything. Believe what you like. Once again I'm not saying that they're completely useless, just that people would be better off with a real physician or a physio.

/thread

Edited April 19, 2015 by JohnLocke

[riffraff]

Did you do any research into the topic? Did you even read what I posted? Chiropractor was established as a religion because it was refused to be accepted as the practice of medicine.

Let me quote since you're too lazy to read:

" For most of its existence, chiropractic has battled with mainstream medicine, sustained by antiscientific and pseudoscientific ideas such as subluxation."

And

"Chiropractic researchers have documented that fraud, abuse and quackery are more prevalent in chiropractic than in other health care professions.^[8] Unsubstantiated claims about the efficacy of chiropractic have continued to be made by individual chiropractors and chiropractic associations.^[3] The core concept of traditional chiropractic, vertebral subluxation, is not based on sound science.^[3] Collectively, systematic reviews have not demonstrated that spinal manipulation, the main treatment method employed by chiropractors, waseffective for any medical condition, with the possible exception of treatment for back pain.^[3] Although rare,^[9] spinal manipulation, particularly of the upper spine, can also result in complications that can lead to permanent disability or death; these can occur in adults^[10] and children."

And here's the best one yet...

"Chiropractors historically were strongly opposed to vaccination based on their belief that all diseases were traceable to causes in the spine, and therefore could not be affected by vaccines; D.D. Palmer wrote, "It is the very height of absurdity to strive to 'protect' any person from smallpox or any other malady by inoculating them with a filthy animal poison."^[12] Some chiropractors continue to be opposed to vaccination, one of the most effective public health measures in history"

Also,

"A study of California disciplinary statistics during 1997–2000 reported 4.5 disciplinary actions per 1000 chiropractors per year, compared to 2.27 for medical Doctors, and the incident rate for fraud was 9 times greater among chiropractors (1.99 per 1000 chiropractors per year) than among medical Doctors (0.20).^[42] According to a 2006 Gallup Poll of U.S. adults, when asked how they would "rate the honesty and ethical standards of people in these different fields", chiropractic compared unfavorably with mainstream medicine. When chiropractic was rated, it "rated dead last amongst healthcare professions"."

Finally: chiropractor school in canada is only a 4 year bachelor's degree and requires only a minimum gpa of 2.5 to apply... I know some pretty dumb people who can pull off 2.5's

To be a doctor in Canada, generally you need a 4 year bachelors degree + 4 years of medical school + 2-5 years of residency. To even get into a Canadian medical school, your GPA has to be fantastic (3.9+), you have to pass an gruelling interview process, and have amazing extracurriculars.

I'd trust a doctor way more than a chiropractor.

That experience statement is ridiculous. I don't need experience to say that anti vaxxers are crazy and probably shouldn't be treating anyone for anything. Believe what you like. Once again I'm not saying that they're completely useless, just that people would be better off with a real physician or a physio.

/thread

Mindslave.

[JohnLocke]

Mindslave.

right back at chya

Obviously we're not gonna agree so lets just get back to talking about getting swole

Edited April 19, 2015 by JohnLocke

[taxi]

Chinups are amazing for biceps. Preacher curls, concentration curls, pretty much any kind of curling. What I like about biceps is that there is no secret, just do different curls, and do chin ups, and you'll get real nice biceps. I have the opposite problem as you, my triceps don't grow

Chinups are only good for biceps if you do a relatively close grip underhand grip chinup.

[riffraff]

right back at chya

Obviously we're not gonna agree so lets just get back to talking about getting swole

Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

Ftr I'm not a chiro;) but I think you are out of line at your level to date to be labelling a potential future peer in the medical industry; a quack.

[JohnLocke]

Chinups are only good for biceps if you do a relatively close grip underhand grip chinup.

All chin ups are underhand grip

[rambo scorethat]

I am looking for some hip aductor and abductor exercises I can do with only dumbells, a bench, and I have a bar bell too with some plates. Also a pullup/dip bar thingamajig. Just work out at home, figured that's all I'd need. Are machines necessary?

[NucksPatsFan]

I am looking for some hip aductor and abductor exercises I can do with only dumbells, a bench, and I have a bar bell too with some plates. Also a pullup/dip bar thingamajig. Just work out at home, figured that's all I'd need. Are machines necessary?

Twirl/spin a large towel (one you'd use for showering) into a rope and use it like you would use resistance bands around your knees and use the towel rope as resistance for abductor exercises.

[NucksPatsFan]

Diet has been so terrible lately. Last 7-10 days since the playoffs and final exam period started, been more lazy/have less time to meal prep and have been relying on bagels from Tim Hortons, and a couple times, in times of utter desparation, grabbed a couple junior chickens late at night coming home from the library . Still on my gym routine, never miss a session, but you can't out lift/cardio a bad diet.

[The Magician]

Diet has been so terrible lately. Last 7-10 days since the playoffs and final exam period started, been more lazy/have less time to meal prep and have been relying on bagels from Tim Hortons, and a couple times, in times of utter desparation, grabbed a couple junior chickens late at night coming home from the library . Still on my gym routine, never miss a session, but you can't out lift/cardio a bad diet.

How do I get swole NPF

[Orka]

Anyone here do yoga? what are your thoughts on it and how do you find it benefits you?

[The Magician]

Anyone here do yoga? what are your thoughts on it and how do you find it benefits you?

Does yoga help you get swole?

EDIT: Help guys! My girlfriend wants me to get swole asap....

Edited April 20, 2015 by The Magician

[taxi]

Diet has been so terrible lately. Last 7-10 days since the playoffs and final exam period started, been more lazy/have less time to meal prep and have been relying on bagels from Tim Hortons, and a couple times, in times of utter desparation, grabbed a couple junior chickens late at night coming home from the library . Still on my gym routine, never miss a session, but you can't out lift/cardio a bad diet.

Even in situations where you are forced to eat less than ideal, there are ways to minimize the damage. A Junior McChicken only has 370 calories. I wouldn't worry too much about the occasional chicken sandwhich. I would try and substitute the bagels for a menu item with fewer calories and more protein though.

Unless you are cutting for a show, and need to get to sub 10% body fat, the occasional slip up is not going to have any effect on your training. The idea that people are going to either blow up or whither away unless their diet is 100% on point is garbage. Even professional body builders don't eat entirely clean, unless they are cutting for a show.

Take a look at the Michael Phelps diet:

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/08/13/the-michael-phelps-diet-dont-try-it-at-home/

He ate entire pizzas, Grilled ham and cheese sandwhiches, pancakes, etc...It's all a question of what your needs are.

[taxi]

All chin ups are underhand grip

Never really liked the chin up/pull up definition thing...Doesn't explain variation grips, such as one overhand and one underhand (aka snake grip), a sideways grip, etc.. There also no other exercise where you rename it entirely based on having an overhand or underhand grip.