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The future of the Vancouver Canucks pending another 1st round exit

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#1 six-0h-four-

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:11 AM

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Mike Gillis isn't an idiot. He knows enough about hockey and the Vancouver Canucks to know that after every year, this version of the Vancouver Canucks' chances to win the Stanley Cup are going down by a significant amount.

I think we can all agree that another first round exit would induce some profound changes to the organization, starting from the ground up. Coach AV and his crew would probably all be gone, talks would start about the Sedins not producing, Kesler's injury woes, so on and so forth.

I think the "core" of the team, which isn't getting any younger, may be starting to pass it's prime, and the team needs to start obtaining assets to rekindle a new "core". This starts with the goalie situation. Luongo's first two games (as well as last year's Kings series on a whole) have shown goaltending isn't the problem, it is in fact a strong point. Trading a much younger Schnieder would provide a way better return, some probable first round picks, and a viable prospect or two. This may not be what we want, but it may be something we have to do... We have two highly tauted AHL goalies right now in Lack and Cannata, and Lu would be a great mentor to one of these guys until he's ready to retire.

The Sedins have 1 year left on their contract, which is about the time we make them the best second line players in the league. (or near the top, at least) They have stated several times that they want to finish their careers in Vancouver, and I'm sure would sign for much less than thier $6.1 million salary they make now. Some would argue to truly change our "core" we should let them walk. I am wholeheartedy against that approach.

So where do we get other assets from? Even if we buyout/trade Ballard/Booth, we still don't have much wiggle room in regards to the salary cap. We still need to re-sign Chris Tanev, and a bunch of other contracts are up as well. (Raymond, Lapierre, etc) It looks like we still might need to trade at least some of our own assets (maybe a defensemen and a forward) that we don't want to trade, but is neccesary for our team in the long run. We need to eventually get some high round draft picks, as our junior pool is withering slowly.

We do not want to be the Calgary Flames of 7 years ago. Multiple first round exits leading into 10th place finishes the following 5 years, until they finally decide to rebuild. I think that we can do this mini-rebuild while still competing for the playoffs.

Even if the Canucks' go on to beat the Sharks (which I still think they can do) this is still a process that needs to happen. Noone can beat father time, the Vancouver Canucks included.
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#2 Lockhart

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:18 AM

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Let Raymond walk, he was good to start the season but he hasn't done anything in the last month. We should re-sign Lappy, don't have enough $$$ for Roy so either Schroeder or Gaunce should get a chance as 3C.

Jensen should be on the team next year, sink or swim.

Ebbett......

Get rid of Ballard, not that he's a bad player but his cap hit is too high and he's in AV's doghouse (although AV should be fired anyway)

Booth has shown flashes but at 4+ million he has to do more than that. Trade him.
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#3 canuckfan85

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:19 AM

solid post bro.
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#4 CIaude Giroux

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:24 AM

Sedins need to be traded for younger players
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#5 sgt. grumbles

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:26 AM

Sedins need to be traded for younger players


They'll just retire if that were to happen.
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#6 Deadweed

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:27 AM

Retain Garrison, trade Edler.
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#7 Dragonfruits

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:29 AM

series isn't over go watch baseball
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#8 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:30 AM

I believe if we need to make some changes on the roster. Overhaul Philly Flyers style. Trade Edler, Raymond, Bieksa, as his coverage sucked crap on that 2 on1, despite Edlers screw up. Flame me for all I care, but I would do Edler straight up for Ehrhoff right now!
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#9 CupisAll

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:32 AM

the future of this team is a return to the 80's.
It is almost fitting that we are going back to a similar divisional alignment as was in place then.
we are going return to being the oilers whipping boy and are going to be looking up at them in the standings as we find ourselves outside of the playoffs looking in year after year. we might get to play for the cup again in another 15 years but it seems that the number of years between cup appearances for us has been increasing rather than decreasing.
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#10 NewWestExpress

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:33 AM

The only rebuild we need is to get rid of AV and ship him with Ebbett to a remote island. Where they'll later be joined by Aaron Rome and Jeff Cowen. AV will be satisfied
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#11 Standing_Tall#37

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

I believe if we need to make some changes on the roster. Overhaul Philly Flyers style. Trade Edler, Raymond, Bieksa, as his coverage sucked crap on that 2 on1, despite Edlers screw up. Flame me for all I care, but I would do Edler straight up for Ehrhoff right now!

I would trade Edler for a 2nd rd pick right now. His lack of G.A.F. on the PP is embarrassing...it shouldn't take an nhl D-man 15-20 seconds to retrieve the puck and start up the ice... Was watching the mon/ott game...their defensemen were doing it in 8-11 seconds... Get way more opportunities and tire the PK out that way. The coaching staff however is even more embarrassing for letting this to continually happen.
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#12 kj29

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:38 AM

Let's trade for Salo B)
MAKE IT HAPPEN GILLIS :towel: :towel: :towel:

Edited by lappy40, 04 May 2013 - 10:38 AM.

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#13 Standing_Tall#37

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:40 AM

series isn't over go watch baseball

When was the last time this core came back from a 2-0 deficit... Not saying it can't happen(because I believe we have enough talent to make it happen) but it won't, because no one fires their coaching staff half way through a playoff series...
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#14 van_ws

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:42 AM

Gillis should get the frack out of here and given the boot as well. He is also responsible for much of this mess (letting key contributors walk or traded away for players who had not worked out here at all). A lot of money is tied up in large contracts that simply are not very good.

If you look at how this money is being spent compared to the playoff performance on the ice, it is enough to make the owners very unhappy hopefully.

Losing 6 straight home playoff games in a row is a ???? embarrassment. The owners will kick out AV and Gillis, guarantee that.
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#15 Renelsisc

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:47 AM

Why can't we fire the coach during the playoffs? Though I agree that we won't, we should!

At this point it doesn't really matter. It's not like av is doing anything to guide them anyway, so why not just get pat oneill to just govern the line changes and let the players play? Sink or swim, just let them play.
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#16 stexx

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:52 AM

what the canucks need to do is integrate their young players into core roles and FORCE the veterans to teach and carry them.

Look at Chicago, they put Saad up with toews/kane and left him there all year, the kid had bad games, bad weeks, but they stuck with him and he learned and evolved. What that allowed them to do was create a more dangerous 2nd line and by extension 3rd line. "balance" is the name of the game in the nhl now.
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#17 Deadweed

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

what the canucks need to do is integrate their young players into core roles and FORCE the veterans to teach and carry them.

Look at Chicago, they put Saad up with toews/kane and left him there all year, the kid had bad games, bad weeks, but they stuck with him and he learned and evolved. What that allowed them to do was create a more dangerous 2nd line and by extension 3rd line. "balance" is the name of the game in the nhl now.


Balance is overrated
-AV
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#18 mpt

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

Hard to trade our core when they all have NTCs, that's what hampering ourselves from making trades, the only players other teams want aren't moveable
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#19 Christophe

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:56 AM

AV has to go. He's a good coach, but it's quite clear that he's overstayed his welcome.

We need a resurgence of something. This group is getting stale.

Start bringing up youth and try and compete for the SC in a couple of years.

Jensen, Corrado, Tanev, Schroeder, Gaunce should all be in the line up next season if we get bounced in the 1st round.
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#20 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:57 AM

Gillis should get the frack out of here and given the boot as well. He is also responsible for much of this mess (letting key contributors walk or traded away for players who had not worked out here at all). A lot of money is tied up in large contracts that simply are not very good.

If you look at how this money is being spent compared to the playoff performance on the ice, it is enough to make the owners very unhappy hopefully.

Losing 6 straight home playoff games in a row is a ???? embarrassment. The owners will kick out AV and Gillis, guarantee that.


I hope you are correct. Regardless of their individual impact on teh team's lack of success, this team needs a major injection of new ideas and a totally different approach to personnel management.

Letting Ehrhoff walk has been defended and for the price, maybe it made sense but teh impact it has had to not replace him with a puck-moving D-man has been evident since his departure.

Letting Torres walk over pocket change and tehn trying to trade for him 1 year later only to have him be a major (2nd line) factor in our curren twoes shows MG is making this up as he goes along.

The treatment of Ballard, the mishandled Lu situation, The constant "punishment" by AV of our young players while turning a blind eye to the poor play of his "vets" has left us with 2 top lines of the "core" players and a mess below that. It is evident that AV is not capable of seeing long-term enough to allow players to develop in roles that woudl help the team when it matters. Here wew are in the playoffs and we have no 4th line that AV is willing to play for more than 5 minutes. This is the case despite numerous additions to the team and the understanding that the ability to roll 4 llines is crucial to plkayoff success.

Av and MG have had the most talented team the NUcks have ever iced and the ony success it has attained is due to playing in a very weak division. Talent masked their personnel mismanagement for a few years but that is no longer the case.
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#21 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:57 AM

Balance is overrated
-AV


Aapparently, so is line matching!!
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#22 CupisAll

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:59 AM

When was the last time this core came back from a 2-0 deficit... Not saying it can't happen(because I believe we have enough talent to make it happen) but it won't, because no one fires their coaching staff half way through a playoff series...


tsn reported that it has never happened in the 42 year history of this team.
it's not gonna happen we're not playing a team full of patsies like the 2011 bruins did.
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#23 Gooseberries

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:00 AM

Aapparently, so is line matching!!

add goal scoring and puck possession to the list of overrated activities

Edited by TruCanuck, 04 May 2013 - 11:00 AM.

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#24 stexx

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:13 AM

on the bright side some of the canucks young players have really stepped up and look very good.

it looks like kassian has started to take his game to the next level. Hopefully when paired with the twins next season we see a meteoric rise in his play which would allow us a much more balanced attack.

jordan schroeder dominated the AHL after his demotion would love to see him play on a line of burrows-schroeder-kesler

corrado/tanev steady as she goes both very good young defenseman and we have plenty more coming up soon in tommernes and anderrson.

gaunce looks like he could be a powerful 3rd line centre as early as next year. If he is ready a line of higgins-gaunce-hansen would be very hard to play against. More likely though he is 2-3years away and the canucks will sign Roy or another centre for this line.

Things arent as doom and gloom as they appear, especially if they get a good return for a goalie (who knows which one they will trade at this point)

Are the canucks going to be a powerhouse in the next 2-3 years? absolutely not but they will be a competitive 3-6placing team in the west and we all know what can happen if a team gets hot at the right time.
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#25 CanadianRugby

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:26 AM

it looks like kassian has started to take his game to the next level.
What level is that? He didn't cost us a goal last game I guess that's an improvement.

jordan schroeder dominated the AHL after his demotion would love to see him play on a line of burrows-schroeder-kesler
Shroeder hasn't shown anything at NHL level either.

corrado/tanev steady as she goes both very good young defenseman
Both look good, but our problem is scoring goals which neither of these guys do.


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#26 CanadianRugby

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:43 AM

Unfortunately this is what I see in our future.

We hang onto our core (like Calgary) because of one strong playoff run. Slowly get worse and worse until a rebuild, by which time our players will have little to no trading value.
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#27 stexx

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:46 AM


okay ill bite,

kassian has clearly upped his compete level in the playoffs. He looked dangerous on a few shifts with the twins and that 4th line almost scored a few goals with ebbett and weise last night.

Schroeder stepped in and put up .3PPG pace at times playing with weise and whoever else. When he got to play with offensive players (hansen,raymond) he actually played very well. He has shown he has the skill/speed and defensive awareness to be an NHL player and for a rookie that is a good start.

the fact that you think that defenseman that move the puck out effortlessly from their own zone dont help the offense makes me chuckle.
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#28 Horvat x 53

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:50 AM

I wouldnt want draft picks if AV is around. The last 1st round draft pick we had who developed was Kesler. If sedins stay they need a huge pay cut and move to the 2nd line. Move kesler up and get him a legitimate 1st liner to play with. Ballard, play him or move him.
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#29 CanadianRugby

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:54 AM

okay ill bite,

kassian has clearly upped his compete level in the playoffs. He looked dangerous on a few shifts with the twins and that 4th line almost scored a few goals with ebbett and weise last night.

Schroeder stepped in and put up .3PPG pace at times playing with weise and whoever else. When he got to play with offensive players (hansen,raymond) he actually played very well. He has shown he has the skill/speed and defensive awareness to be an NHL player and for a rookie that is a good start.

the fact that you think that defenseman that move the puck out effortlessly from their own zone dont help the offense makes me chuckle.

What has Kassian done these playoffs other than cost us a goal with his stupid penalty in game 1? Nothing.

Again, just because you're not a defensive liability doesn't make you a good player in Shroeder.

I wouldn't say Tanev is a guy that moves the puck effortlessly out of our zone. He takes hits to make plays, which is why he's out of the lineup with an injury.
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#30 Iggynucks

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:11 PM

Gillis has done some good things, some bad. More bad than good the last two years. He probably gets one more year to begin a retool (not rebuild) of this team. I wouldn't complain if he was let go though. I really don't like the sideshow this team started becoming under his direction the last year.

Time to move on from AV. Most coaches have a shelf life before their message becomes stale not to mention the team and fans (myself included) seem to be growing tired of his curious decisions. He also adds to the sideshow.

Used to be one of Edler's biggest supporters but his constant lack of focus and foolish decisions are not going away and actually seem to be becoming more frequent. This may be a dream but I would do anything in my power to retain Shea Weber (Edler, 1st and prospect of Nashville's choice) whatever it takes.

Booth/Ballard are the obvious buyout candidates to clear cap space (though signing those two buyout cheques for close to $6mil might also sign Gillis' pink slip). Raymond's, Roy's, Manny's, Lapierre's and Alberts's contracts are also up and I would guess they're as good as gone. (maybe Max stays for a mil but that's all I can see on the roster next year).

At least Luongo's play is driving his price back up a bit so that's a bit of a plus. Maybe we can regain some of the assets that we'll have to move to acquire a player of elite status (preferably a defenceman).

Sedin's are consummate professionals and truly world class people. They have done so much for the team and city of Vancouver. I am against moving them unless its something they want which I don't see happening. They have earned the right to play out the last year of their contract. Perhaps they will sign short term deals for much less next year. Vancouver can start the transition from the Sedins as the faces of our team to complimentary players. If deals like that are not something they're interested in, it may be time to part ways as sad as it is.

Free agent pool is extremely thin this year so spend the money smartly on one or two year deals and see how the team responds to a new coaching staff. If it's clear next year that its not going to happen with this group. It might be time to start moving some other staples of this team (Bieksa, Burrows, Higgins etc.) and getting back some youthful talent via trade or 2014 free agent class.

I don't think the team will look much differently next year due to cap issues but a new coach, perhaps a new GM and big name acquisition to replace Edler (Weber please) would be enough. If not, this team should look completely different for the 2014-2015 season.
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