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Am I the only one who blames MG more than AV?


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#1 vcrguy

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:22 AM

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You have $9-10M in assets NOT playing between Schneider/Luongo and Ballard.

That's like setting the salary cap at $64M for every other team and $54M for the Canucks. You have an owner who's happy to spend the money and yet you waste it on assets that don't help/play.

Other obvious mistakes / problems:

1. Burrows is wayyyyyyyy overpaid.

2. Make a trade next year to help the team! Every other GM manages to do it. Don't over value your players. Assess their real value and just make a trade to shake up the team.

3. Admit mistakes and move on. If Kassian is really this future gem, then lets trade him for something that will help now. Our window is closing. In two years we'll be the Calgary Flames of 3 or 4 years ago. Barely good enough to get into the playoffs with no hope of winning even if we get there.

4. Booth.............need I say more.

5. Letting key players walk: Torres, Ehrhoff, Ohlund, Salo yet paying others way over market to come / stay here.

6. Sticking with a coach that isn't on the same level as you. If Kassian is as good as you think he is, why is he playing on the fourth line? It seems the players MG brings in don't fit with the way AV wants to play.

Are the above comments fair or am I just losing my mind from the first two games of the playoffs?
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#2 stexx

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:27 AM

burrows made 2million this year how is he possibly overpaid.

make a trade? there was ONE, ONE trade this year before the deadline of any real consequence if you notice most teams in the west didnt do much. It was a very hard year to make trades for everyone.

i agree with your ballard/booth points, if they arent your guys move on from them this summer (hopefully raymond as well)

It probably is time for AV to go, he got a pass last year but this year if they do go out to SJ will be his last chance.

Letting Salo and Ohlund walk was the right decision, as hard as it was to see them go Ohlund was on a serious decline and having a defenseman who is never healthy come playoff time doesnt help you much.

Ehrhoff went for megabucks in buffalo good riddance, Torres was a mistake that MG tried to rectify at the deadline this year but they couldnt get a deal done.
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#3 smithers joe

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:35 AM

you could find some fault with both of them but the truth has always been, you win as a team and you lose as a team....that's been the way it has been since there was only 6 teams in the league....
i like the job they both have done and hope both are here to find a way to bring the team back to elite level...
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#4 CanadianRugby

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:37 AM

I'm with you OP.

Samuelson (30 goal scorer for us) was replaced by a 1 goal scoring terrible contract
Grabner (and a pick) was replaced by a healthy scratch with a terrible contract
Erhoff was never replaced
Torres was never replaced
Hodgson our best young player was given away for nothing

What is AV supposed to do with that?

But you'll get no love on these forums OP. It's filled with knuckle draggers that still think Kassian is amazing and when their favorite players don't produce it's because of the coach.

Edited by CanadianRugby, 04 May 2013 - 11:39 AM.

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#5 xkeslerx17x

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:37 AM

There's blame to go to both. With the ballard situation i'd blame AV for not using him. The goalie thing maybe the right pieces weren't coming back but hey look at us now. Glad that Luo didnt get traded or well series probably would have still been 2-0 for SJ but GAA would be way higher.

With booth, i think it is more bad luck than anything else. When he can play he's pretty effective.
Although my issue is with MG is that he didnt really address any of the core issues.

1. Need a puck moving Dman who is preferebly right handed
2. Getting another top 6 scorer. Let's be honest kesler is the only goal scorer on the team. Sedins just pass away scoring chances or go for tap ins.

Coho for Kassasian trade should have been an off season move.

AV's fault for lineup issues. Am i blowing smoke when i say Ballard is pretty much an improvement over Alberts?
Schroeder over Ebbett where Jordan can play with mayray and hanson which looked pretty dce in the reg season?

If the fans can see it why can't AV

Edited by xkeslerx17x, 04 May 2013 - 11:40 AM.

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#6 apollo

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:41 AM

Fire MG.
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#7 Tornado

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:45 AM

How about we don't blame anyone until the series/playoffs is over?
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#8 chrisbanks

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:47 AM

There's blame to go to both. With the ballard situation i'd blame AV for not using him. The goalie thing maybe the right pieces weren't coming back but hey look at us now. Glad that Luo didnt get traded or well series probably would have still been 2-0 for SJ but GAA would be way higher.

With booth, i think it is more bad luck than anything else. When he can play he's pretty effective.
Although my issue is with MG is that he didnt really address any of the core issues.

1. Need a puck moving Dman who is preferebly right handed
2. Getting another top 6 scorer. Let's be honest kesler is the only goal scorer on the team. Sedins just pass away scoring chances or go for tap ins.

Coho for Kassasian trade should have been an off season move.

AV's fault for lineup issues. Am i blowing smoke when i say Ballard is pretty much an improvement over Alberts?
Schroeder over Ebbett where Jordan can play with mayray and hanson which looked pretty dce in the reg season?

If the fans can see it why can't AV

kesler has only scored more that 26 goals once his career and gets most of his points on the top line PP and does nothing in the second line centre position. so if hes our only real goal scorer we are in way more trouble than anyone thinks
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#9 CanadianRugby

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:51 AM

How about we don't blame anyone until the series/playoffs is over?

The playoffs don't need to be over for us to know that this team isn't what it used to be.
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#10 vcrguy

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:52 AM

burrows made 2million this year how is he possibly overpaid.

make a trade? there was ONE, ONE trade this year before the deadline of any real consequence if you notice most teams in the west didnt do much. It was a very hard year to make trades for everyone.

i agree with your ballard/booth points, if they arent your guys move on from them this summer (hopefully raymond as well)

It probably is time for AV to go, he got a pass last year but this year if they do go out to SJ will be his last chance.

Letting Salo and Ohlund walk was the right decision, as hard as it was to see them go Ohlund was on a serious decline and having a defenseman who is never healthy come playoff time doesnt help you much.

Technically you're right but unless we trade Burrows in the offseason (and we don't make trades), he's way overpaid for next year.Trades aren't hard to make in the NHL, they are just hard to make for people who don't know how to make them.Last year Jeff Carter's "immovable" contract was moved.Pittsburgh traded for Iginla, Morrow and that SJ d-man (I can't remember his name). I swear MG would have to think for an entire year before he could make this many key trades.Teams wanted Luongo. If MG didn't accept any of the offers its because he doesn't realize what "fair market value" means. Just because he signed him to a crazy long-term contract doesn't mean teams should ignore this fact.Ehrhoff went for megabucks in buffalo good riddance, Torres was a mistake that MG tried to rectify at the deadline this year but they couldnt get a deal done.


Edited by vcrguy, 04 May 2013 - 11:53 AM.

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#11 c00kies

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

I'm with you OP.

Samuelson (30 goal scorer for us) was replaced by a 1 goal scoring terrible contract
Grabner (and a pick) was replaced by a healthy scratch with a terrible contract
Erhoff was never replaced
Torres was never replaced
Hodgson our best young player was given away for nothing

What is AV supposed to do with that?

But you'll get no love on these forums OP. It's filled with knuckle draggers that still think Kassian is amazing and when their favorite players don't produce it's because of the coach.


He's a big reason Hodgson left, so he has nobody but himself to blame.

As far as I'm concerned, if we don't win this year, our window with this current core is shut. No Luongo, no Sedins, no Burrows, no Bieksa, no Edler, but keep Kesler.
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#12 vcrguy

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

Sorry, something messed up with my post above. My comments back were:

Technically you're right but unless we trade Burrows in the offseason (and we don't make trades), he's way overpaid for next year.

Trades aren't hard to make in the NHL, they are just hard to make for people who don't know how to make them. Last year Jeff Carter's "immovable" contract was moved.Pittsburgh traded for Iginla, Morrow and that SJ d-man (I can't remember his name). I swear MG would have to think for an entire year before he could make this many key trades. I see people ahead of me think for an enternity at the McD's drive thru but that doesn't mean their menu is hard to order from, it just means they have trouble making decisions.

Teams wanted Luongo. If MG didn't accept any of the offers its because he doesn't realize what "fair market value" means. Just because he signed him to a crazy long-term contract doesn't mean teams should ignore this fact.
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#13 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:03 PM

They compliment eachother in a negative way.

MG can point the finger at AV for not effectively using all the bodies he has brought him (Ballard, Garrison not on 1PP unit) etc while AV can blame MG by saying he hasn't been given the right pieces to work with.

I personnally blame AV more as many of the moves MG has made (Torres, Hodgson etc) were made based on how AV managed them and on what kind of players he wanted in his "system".

AV's total lack of patience with rookies - and don't give me the Taneve argument - Rookies who can perform like vets get a chance, sure, but most rookies need to have some opportunity to be rookies and make mistakes (see Saad with Chicago) in order to succeed. With AV it's sink or swim on teh first tryout and if you can't play like the vets around you, 4th line and then the farm for you.

Both should go but unless Aquilini moves first, it's likely MG is forced to say good-bye to AV.
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#14 Mrjimmy

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:04 PM

I already said it was the GM and my post got locked.. :rolleyes:
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#15 c00kies

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:04 PM

Sorry, something messed up with my post above. My comments back were:

Technically you're right but unless we trade Burrows in the offseason (and we don't make trades), he's way overpaid for next year.

Trades aren't hard to make in the NHL, they are just hard to make for people who don't know how to make them. Last year Jeff Carter's "immovable" contract was moved.Pittsburgh traded for Iginla, Morrow and that Douglas Murray. I swear MG would have to think for an entire year before he could make this many key trades. I see people ahead of me think for an eternity at the McD's drive thru but that doesn't mean their menu is hard to order from, it just means they have trouble making decisions.

Teams wanted Luongo. If MG didn't accept any of the offers its because he doesn't realize what "fair market value" means. Just because he signed him to a crazy long-term contract doesn't mean teams should ignore this fact.

Fixed your post (minor changes)

And I agree that MG has to make a big move, we need new parts to add to our core, not to support the core.
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#16 gradin123

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:07 PM

No i completely agree. MG should take the majority of the heat.
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#17 deke44

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

Mike Gillis should be fired for not firing AV.
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#18 Scottish⑦Canuck

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:09 PM

Mike Gillis' job is a lot more difficult than many people on here make out.

We don't have the assets to trade for top players due to our recent success, so naturally there are teams who can offer a lot more than us for key players. I thought he did a good job of adding Roy at the deadline for the price he paid. In doing so he addressed (or so he thought) the problem regarding lack of scoring. Of course, everybody seems to have disappeared in the past two games, so that hasn't worked out. But can you honestly say that he should have seen it coming?

In terms of drafting, yes, he's been below average. But we do have a few good prospects in the system and on the whole the contracts he's signed players to haven't been terrible, with many below market value. His biggest mistake was signing Luongo to the contract he did, and that might just haunt him for the rest of his time as GM.
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#19 ninja321

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:10 PM

Burrows overpaid? You've got to be kidding me.... This guy took a home town discount for so many years and you're saying he doesn't deserve the money he's getting right now playing on our top line and top pk.
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#20 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:10 PM

You have $9-10M in assets NOT playing between Schneider/Luongo and Ballard.

That's like setting the salary cap at $64M for every other team and $54M for the Canucks. You have an owner who's happy to spend the money and yet you waste it on assets that don't help/play.

Other obvious mistakes / problems:

1. Burrows is wayyyyyyyy overpaid.

2. Make a trade next year to help the team! Every other GM manages to do it. Don't over value your players. Assess their real value and just make a trade to shake up the team.

3. Admit mistakes and move on. If Kassian is really this future gem, then lets trade him for something that will help now. Our window is closing. In two years we'll be the Calgary Flames of 3 or 4 years ago. Barely good enough to get into the playoffs with no hope of winning even if we get there.

4. Booth.............need I say more.

5. Letting key players walk: Torres, Ehrhoff, Ohlund, Salo yet paying others way over market to come / stay here.

6. Sticking with a coach that isn't on the same level as you. If Kassian is as good as you think he is, why is he playing on the fourth line? It seems the players MG brings in don't fit with the way AV wants to play.

Are the above comments fair or am I just losing my mind from the first two games of the playoffs?


Definetly this
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#21 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:14 PM

I'm with you OP.

Samuelson (30 goal scorer for us) was replaced by a 1 goal scoring terrible contract
Grabner (and a pick) was replaced by a healthy scratch with a terrible contract
Erhoff was never replaced
Torres was never replaced
Hodgson our best young player was given away for nothing

What is AV supposed to do with that?

But you'll get no love on these forums OP. It's filled with knuckle draggers that still think Kassian is amazing and when their favorite players don't produce it's because of the coach.


Sammuelsson has played exactly 4 games this year. Yeah we really lost out.

Ehrhoff has been replaced by Garrison, an upgrade IMO.

Not going to go through the rest, cause you should have just given your crystal ball to MG before he made those moves, because your really only going off hindsight here.
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#22 vcrguy

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:23 PM

Burrows overpaid? You've got to be kidding me.... This guy took a home town discount for so many years and you're saying he doesn't deserve the money he's getting right now playing on our top line and top pk.


He frequently doesn't play on our top line.  Do you even watch Canuck games?And yes, he's worth more than the $2M he made for many years, but not worth the $4M we just re-signed him for.He's also the most penalized player in the league for minor penalties.

Edited by vcrguy, 04 May 2013 - 12:24 PM.

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#23 CanadianRugby

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:26 PM

Sammuelsson has played exactly 4 games this year. Yeah we really lost out.

Ehrhoff has been replaced by Garrison, an upgrade IMO.

Not going to go through the rest, cause you should have just given your crystal ball to MG before he made those moves, because your really only going off hindsight here.

I didn't say we should keep Sammuelson, I'm saying his goals haven't been replaced.

Salo was replaced by Garrison, not Erhoff.
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#24 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:35 PM

I didn't say we should keep Sammuelson, I'm saying his goals haven't been replaced.

Salo was replaced by Garrison, not Erhoff.


I look at it like Salo was replaced by Tanev, and Ehrhoff was replaced by Garrison

And Sammuelsson hasn't exactly been spectacular since he left, I think his production wouldn't have been much more than what we have

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 04 May 2013 - 12:36 PM.

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#25 kassians_fist

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:37 PM

I think both MG and AV have made some stupid decisions. AV has to work with what MG gives him. MG made a huge mistake letting Salo, Erhoff, and Torres walk. I was fine with the Cody trade, but that's because I couldn't stand that kid and his attitude, and I get such a kick out of Kassian, he's a great fit for the team.

I'd like to see MG go before AV.
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#26 vcrguy

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:48 PM

I think both MG and AV have made some stupid decisions. AV has to work with what MG gives him. MG made a huge mistake letting Salo, Erhoff, and Torres walk. I was fine with the Cody trade, but that's because I couldn't stand that kid and his attitude, and I get such a kick out of Kassian, he's a great fit for the team.

I'd like to see MG go before AV.


did Cody really have a big attitude? I didn't see it but I miss lots of things.I have to remind myself sometimes not to blame Kassian for the trade. It's not his fault and I do like seeing him throw his weight around out there. Especially with that silly grin of his!
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#27 samurai

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:48 PM

MG has made some bad decisions for sure.
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#28 Fred65

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

Which earth shattering trade has MG made to make the team better. AV can only rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic so often. The Cap is over subscribed for next season with only 17 player signed. The prospects are at least a couple of years away and the list of 2013 FA's is extremely poor. I believe, right or wrong that there are not a lot of GM's that will do business with MG.

Edited by Fred65, 04 May 2013 - 12:55 PM.

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#29 ButterBean

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

You really want to trade Kassian after we traded Hodgson for him? Trading Kassian at this point is taking a step back.
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#30 Hairy Kneel

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:58 PM

Kassian still plays like a rookie, I wouldn't mind seeing more rookies next year especially Gaunce and Jensen, since we are officially in rebuild mode.
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