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Mitchell, Salo, Torres, Sammuellson > Booth, Ballard, Raymond


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#31 Where's Wellwood

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 11:58 PM

Ahem, so in your mind Booth,Ballard and Raymond is > than Mitchell,Salo,Torres,Samuelsson?


Right now? Yes.

Mitchell's career is basically over because of injury. Salo is made of glass. and Samuelsson played 4 games this season.

Booth is injured but at least he played 12 games, Raymond is serviceable, and Ballard should be in this team's top six. Corrado should not.

In their prime, those 4 were better than the 3 we have, but those days are gone.

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#32 Where's Wellwood

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:05 AM

That doesn't change the fact that Mitchell won the cup and Salo is the best D on his team.

Gillis cannot evaluate players and it shows by the success of ppl we cut.

This cannot be refuted lol.


Yeah Mitchell won a cup. So what? Lots of players have won cups. It doesn't mean that player is good. It means there were on a good team. I'm not saying Mitchell is not a good player. He was. But now he's injured. And he was coming off a serious concussion when the Kings signed him. If Gillis had signed him to that same deal, and Mitchell had not ended up playing, we'd all be ripping Gillis. He did not make a mistake by not signing Mitchell.

Just because Salo is the best D on their team doesn't mean he'd be the best on ours. Better than Alberts/Corrado? For sure. But not for 3.5 million for two years on our team with his injury history.

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#33 stonecoldstevebernier

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:08 AM

I agree that we'd be better off with those players. But I definitely disagree that its MG's fault.

Mitchell: was coming off of a serious concussion, unsure if he'd be 100% again. It was unrealistic to expect MG to offer $3.5m again under the circumstances, but LA did and it paid off for them.

Salo: 2 years, $7.5m at his age? There was no way MG could match that with the logjam on defense. If he did, people would slam it as a boneheaded move for a 38-year old. I love Salo, but at that money, it wasn't happening.

Samuelsson: could you honestly say last season that you wouldn't have traded Samuelsson (and Sturm) for Booth? Now it may look bad, but a year ago its 35 year old Samuelsson for 27 year old Booth, a young power forward. Easy decision.

Torres: this one, I do wish MG had re-signed, and he could have done it after the 2011 season. That's the only one you could really go back and say was possible.

Hindsight is great, but there's no way you can tell me that if you were in Mike Gillis' place at the time you had to make the decisions on Mitchell, Salo, and Samuelsson that you would have acted differently. You might regret things now, but looking back they're all no-brainers. No use pining over what could've been.


 


#34 cyacry

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:18 AM

Right now? Yes.

Mitchell's career is basically over because of injury. Salo is made of glass. and Samuelsson played 4 games this season.

Booth is injured but at least he played 12 games, Raymond is serviceable, and Ballard should be in this team's top six. Corrado should not.

In their prime, those 4 were better than the 3 we have, but those days are gone.

Booth, being paid 4.25mil and not even in the line up...Raymond, completely invisible for past 2 games. Ballard, I agree he should be in top six but doesn't do too well without Tanev. Now, although Salo is injury prone he still provides a great shot and adds depth. Mitchell's ring says hi. Samuelsson logged 13 goals, 15 assist is 48 games in 11-12.

#35 Merci

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:21 AM

I agree that we'd be better off with those players. But I definitely disagree that its MG's fault.

Mitchell: was coming off of a serious concussion, unsure if he'd be 100% again. It was unrealistic to expect MG to offer $3.5m again under the circumstances, but LA did and it paid off for them.

Salo: 2 years, $7.5m at his age? There was no way MG could match that with the logjam on defense. If he did, people would slam it as a boneheaded move for a 38-year old. I love Salo, but at that money, it wasn't happening.

Samuelsson: could you honestly say last season that you wouldn't have traded Samuelsson (and Sturm) for Booth? Now it may look bad, but a year ago its 35 year old Samuelsson for 27 year old Booth, a young power forward. Easy decision.

Torres: this one, I do wish MG had re-signed, and he could have done it after the 2011 season. That's the only one you could really go back and say was possible.

Hindsight is great, but there's no way you can tell me that if you were in Mike Gillis' place at the time you had to make the decisions on Mitchell, Salo, and Samuelsson that you would have acted differently. You might regret things now, but looking back they're all no-brainers. No use pining over what could've been.



There's only so many mistakes a GM can make.

Not signing veteran D incase their injured seems trivial to signing ballard and having ppl paid 900k out play him

Keslerific, on 25 May 2014 - 4:47 PM, said:

Gaunce is wayy cooler though, Gaunce is the kind of guy you want to bring with you to Costco

 

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#36 cyacry

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:30 AM

I agree that we'd be better off with those players. But I definitely disagree that its MG's fault.

Mitchell: was coming off of a serious concussion, unsure if he'd be 100% again. It was unrealistic to expect MG to offer $3.5m again under the circumstances, but LA did and it paid off for them.

Salo: 2 years, $7.5m at his age? There was no way MG could match that with the logjam on defense. If he did, people would slam it as a boneheaded move for a 38-year old. I love Salo, but at that money, it wasn't happening.

Samuelsson: could you honestly say last season that you wouldn't have traded Samuelsson (and Sturm) for Booth? Now it may look bad, but a year ago its 35 year old Samuelsson for 27 year old Booth, a young power forward. Easy decision.

Torres: this one, I do wish MG had re-signed, and he could have done it after the 2011 season. That's the only one you could really go back and say was possible.

Hindsight is great, but there's no way you can tell me that if you were in Mike Gillis' place at the time you had to make the decisions on Mitchell, Salo, and Samuelsson that you would have acted differently. You might regret things now, but looking back they're all no-brainers. No use pining over what could've been.

yea? then what about filling the holes in the team with all those players gone? Can you say MG did well on trade deadline? with Manny,Salo,Hoff,Torres,Samuelsson gone, what did he bring in to replace them? Roy is a rental (unless his brother convinces him, slim chance). Garrison in to replace Salo. Samuelsson for Booth which last time I saw him was on March 16th. Torres, literally slapped MG in the face in game 2. Not to mention Hoff...isn't the best D man, but better than Alberts and Carrado as our 3rd pair in a cup run.

Edited by cyacry, 05 May 2013 - 12:31 AM.


#37 Where's Wellwood

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:51 AM

Booth, being paid 4.25mil and not even in the line up...Raymond, completely invisible for past 2 games. Ballard, I agree he should be in top six but doesn't do too well without Tanev. Now, although Salo is injury prone he still provides a great shot and adds depth. Mitchell's ring says hi. Samuelsson logged 13 goals, 15 assist is 48 games in 11-12.


Samuelsson's being paid 3 mil and he's not in the line up either. Booth got 16 goals and 13 assists in 56 games in 11-12. Not much different than Samuelsson and Booth is younger.

Yes, when Salo is healthy he is great depth but you can never guarantee how long he'll stay healthy, and 3.5 per for 2 years is too much of a risk especially at his age.

Mitchell won the cup. Good for him. But what is he doing now? Helping the Kings? No, he's seriously injured. I'd rather have Ballard. At least he's healthy. If only AV would play him.

yea? then what about filling the holes in the team with all those players gone? Can you say MG did well on trade deadline? with Manny,Salo,Hoff,Torres,Samuelsson gone, what did he bring in to replace them? Roy is a rental (unless his brother convinces him, slim chance). Garrison in to replace Salo. Samuelsson for Booth which last time I saw him was on March 16th. Torres, literally slapped MG in the face in game 2. Not to mention Hoff...isn't the best D man, but better than Alberts and Carrado as our 3rd pair in a cup run.


Booth played more than Samuelsson this season and would you really want Erhroff for a decade? Because that's the only way you're getting him without paying upwards of 5 mil and a guy that as you say 'isn't the best D man'.

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#38 OrrFour

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 03:29 AM

Raffi fans are forgetting that he was tainted at the end of our Cup run.
He had a rep as an out of control, over the edge player due to his hits and suspensions.
Remember his hit on seabrooke?
On top of that, he wanted third line money. J Hansen makes $1.35 mil and Raffi makes $1.75 mil.
I'm sure he would've been welcomed back by the canucks as a 4th liner, but Raffi found a team that wanted him as a 3rd liner so the canucks couldn't afford him. They chose higgins, hansen, raymond, booth.

He got his hitting under control and the nucks wanted him too since his contract is up after this season.
Who would you prefer on our third line next yr tho?
Raffi: 18 pts in 39 games this yr -$1.75 mil
Hansen: 27pts in 47 games -$1.35 mil
Higgins: 15 pts in 41 games -$2.5 mil

#39 auvixa

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 04:47 AM

With complete bias, I'll say I miss Salo. At least his consistency was rock-solid. Remember when he won that one game for us against the Sharks last time they met in the play-offs? Yeah.

Edited by auvixa, 05 May 2013 - 04:47 AM.

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#40 lowest common denominator

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 06:36 AM

Needz moar out of control Torres

I'm pretty much sick of fringe players and Swedes. Bring on the rebuild and do it right.

Edited by scottiecanuck, 05 May 2013 - 06:37 AM.


#41 nuck nit

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 06:47 AM

You only name the bad things Gillis did. Garrison? Roy? Signing players for cheaper than market value?

Garrison=Hamhuis .Fell into MG's lap.
Roy is free to leave and is another tiny center ice man.

#42 nuck nit

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:04 AM

Hindsight is great, but there's no way you can tell me that if you were in Mike Gillis' place at the time you had to make the decisions on Mitchell, Salo, and Samuelsson that you would have acted differently. You might regret things now, but looking back they're all no-brainers. No use pining over what could've been.


Salo would have stayed for less and said so. Logjam on defense was Gillis' creation.
You argue Mitchell was coming off a concussion,but Booth and Ballard had injury histories when arriving here.
Willie was a diehard Canuck that went on to win a cup for an American team.We got two Americans with huge salaries with injury histories that aren't even playing for Vancouver or the cup.Both are likely done here.
Samuelsson had a good year last year after leaving here so there was time to get any number of players for Samuelsson.
Cohesion.Gillis lacks keeping players that provide cohesion.Ehrhoff,Samuellson and Salo all provided cohesion on the team and made it work for the other players.
Eddy without Salo.
Sedins without Ehrhoff.
The PP/Swedish contingent without Samuelsson.

#43 jetjordan737

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:27 AM

What is with people and this love affair with Raymond? He's like a little ballarena. And what production?? Guy is completely invisible! Softest player in the league. My sister could beat him up.

Most importantly he has no offensive production. Should have been traded or demoted or waived years ago!!! Some people on this forum are completely delusional. The ones that like him, probably have his poster on their ceiling.

#44 jetjordan737

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 07:29 AM

New nickname! MayRay = Bambi. The resemblance is uncanny! Only issue would be the risk of David Booth shooting him and putting him on his mantle.

#45 Nino

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:41 AM

Garrison is a great signing.

Roy is a rental

And the below market value signings come with NTCs so that really isn't a win win


And the only reason we got garrison is because he wanted to play in BC, the janitor for the Canucks office could of handled that deal. The Roy rental is going to look bad after we are out in the first round.

#46 riffraff

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:43 AM

How do we discuss such an obvious statement?
Posted Image


CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#47 aqua59

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:45 AM

I wish we spent the 10 million on players not playing in the NHL on the players all playing on other teams succeeding in the playoffs.



Edit: CDC could be a better GM than Gillis

lol, ya the CDC knows don't they. Half these hacks need to move out of moms basement.

#48 riffraff

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:48 AM

Raffi fans are forgetting that he was tainted at the end of our Cup run.
He had a rep as an out of control, over the edge player due to his hits and suspensions.
Remember his hit on seabrooke?
On top of that, he wanted third line money. J Hansen makes $1.35 mil and Raffi makes $1.75 mil.
I'm sure he would've been welcomed back by the canucks as a 4th liner, but Raffi found a team that wanted him as a 3rd liner so the canucks couldn't afford him. They chose higgins, hansen, raymond, booth.

He got his hitting under control and the nucks wanted him too since his contract is up after this season.
Who would you prefer on our third line next yr tho?
Raffi: 18 pts in 39 games this yr -$1.75 mil
Hansen: 27pts in 47 games -$1.35 mil
Higgins: 15 pts in 41 games -$2.5 mil


The hit on seabrook was good in my books.

Raffi: OT winner 1

Higgins, Hansen OT winner?
Posted Image


CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#49 Sergei Shirokov

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 09:00 AM

The hit on seabrook was good in my books.

Raffi: OT winner 1

Higgins, Hansen OT winner?






#50 riffraff

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 09:23 AM





Playoffs?

In fact I'm pretty sure Torres had a gwg for us during the Boston series......he has a playoff gear.
Posted Image


CanucksSayEh, on 12 March 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:
When the playoffs come around, nobody is scared of getting in a fight, but every night, they get their mom to check under the bed for Raffi Torres.

#51 Edlerberry

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 09:47 AM

I wish we spent the 10 million on players not playing in the NHL on the players all playing on other teams succeeding in the playoffs.



Edit: CDC could be a better GM than Gillis


eerily similar to what i posted a few hours before you made this thread lol

Chopper-for-life-7-600x200.png

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#52 Gollumpus

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 09:51 AM

I wish we spent the 10 million on players not playing in the NHL on the players all playing on other teams succeeding in the playoffs.



Edit: CDC could be a better GM than Gillis


Yes, I'm sure that the only reason that those teams even made the playoffs is because of these former Canucks being on their teams.

regards,
G.

Edited by Gollumpus, 05 May 2013 - 10:05 AM.

Following the Canucks since before Don Cherry played here.

#53 higgyfan

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 09:58 AM

Torres was a cheap shotting, head hunting puke when he played for Nucks and Coyotes. Like Matt Cooke, he was forced to refine his game and is now a pretty decent player. There was no way that MG would have known this would happen when he let him go.

MG did take note of the change in Raffi's game and tried to get him at the deadline. SJ scooped him.

#54 OrrFour

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:24 PM

Torres was a cheap shotting, head hunting puke when he played for Nucks and Coyotes. Like Matt Cooke, he was forced to refine his game and is now a pretty decent player. There was no way that MG would have known this would happen when he let him go.

MG did take note of the change in Raffi's game and tried to get him at the deadline. SJ scooped him.

You basically repeated my post about Torres but with much stronger language. lol

Who would you prefer on our third line next yr tho?
Raffi: 18 pts in 39 games this yr -$1.75 mil
Higgins: 15 pts in 41 games this yr -$2.5 mil

#55 OrrFour

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:32 PM

Garrison=Hamhuis .Fell into MG's lap.

I totally disagree.
MG, former agent, has created an environment and team that is attractive to free agents.
He has signed many free agents for less than market value: Daniel, Kesler, Burrows, Edler, Hansen, Lapierre, Bieksa, Henrik.
None of them are BC guys.
Each one of them could have signed with another team for more money, but chose not to.

#56 aqua59

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:17 PM

I wish we spent the 10 million on players not playing in the NHL on the players all playing on other teams succeeding in the playoffs.



Edit: CDC could be a better GM than Gillis


3 out of the 4 are injured now, today!

#57 higgyfan

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:22 PM

You basically repeated my post about Torres but with much stronger language. lol

Who would you prefer on our third line next yr tho?
Raffi: 18 pts in 39 games this yr -$1.75 mil
Higgins: 15 pts in 41 games this yr -$2.5 mil


Raffi had an unusually good season this year, which will increase his UFA value next year.

Higgins had Ebbett as C and Kass or Weise on wing for most of the season.

#58 Kass9

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:26 PM

OP seems to fail with perspective and hindsight.

Next!

#59 OrrFour

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:41 PM

Raffi had an unusually good season this year, which will increase his UFA value next year.

Higgins had Ebbett as C and Kass or Weise on wing for most of the season.

You may be right about their respective regular seasons, however, right now higgins looks like he's skating in sand while torres is a difference maker with his hits and offense.
I think we'd both agree that playoffs are the real measuring stick.
I hope Higgins shows up the rest of the series.




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