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[PGT] Canucks vs Sharks - Game 3


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#481 lexluthor

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:00 AM

I miss the 2011 style of run and gun the Canucks played. Almost every rush the puck was carried into the zone with speed, not this lackadaisical dump and chase that the Canucks are playing now. The lack of transition game is why the Sedins look lost at times and why the offense is utterly ineffective at maintaining zone time because they are chasing the puck in the corners instead of carrying the puck in and attacking the net.

That's when they had 2 defencemen, Salo & Erhoff, both who could move the puck out of their zone and transition to offence. Gillis didn't replace them with comparable d-men who could do the same job. What we have now is a d-core that is susceptible to breakdown under heavy fore-check from the other team. Just notice how many times we were stuck in our own zone in this game because our d-core couldn't handle the Shark's fore-check.

Edited by lexluthor, 06 May 2013 - 09:02 AM.

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#482 Sanj

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:11 AM

Time to bring in Gaunce! We need some people who are just dying to play. Some of those young guys would give their left nut to just get a shot and so they need the opportunity to do that. We can't be so afraid of our youth. We need to use them when we can. Take out Raymond, take out a fourth liner, bring in Gaunce or Jensen just to throw something different out. Something that cant be scouted from watching our games this year. The sharks know our playbook inside out and their forecheck shows it. We get hemmed so easily in our zone cause we try the same thing over and over again.
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#483 longsuffering

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:21 AM

How can it? Genius Gillis has given almost every player worth anything a No Trade Clause. How do you make changes when you're stuck with this group.

This is Gillis's team....he is the one that has to go!
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#484 khay

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:53 AM

The current situation is a fall out from the 2011 Finals.

It's clear to anyone watching that two things have happened since the Finals that have affected the Canucks confidence.

Both things essentially come from not being able to trust the Refs. It seems that the either playoffs are not suited for the Sedins or the Refs want a different style of play from teams in the playoffs.

Until the 2011 finals against Boston, the Sedins were scoring and teams were getting penalized for holding or slashing them. The Boston series changed everything including it seems the Refs opinion of the Canucks and the Sedins.
Suddenly it was okay to manhandle the Sedins, to crosscheck them from behind or pin them against the boards without getting penalized. The Sedins play stopped being effective because they couldn't cycle the puck anymore and the fall out was the other lines lost confidence in overall team scoring. If the 1st line can't score, then how can they win games?!

Another fallout from the Boston series is that the Canucks got labelled as fakers, divers and "girls", so Refs stopped calling plays that should have been penalties. I think the Canucks did start dramatizing things in the Boston series, but primarily because the Refs didn't seem to notice all the stuff Boston was doing.

Yesterday's game highlighted the influence of the Boston series.
- The Sedins were again manhandled, pinned against the boards and crosschecked from behind - no penalties and the Sedins eliminated offensively.
- Borderline calls against Vancouver as a result of Refs thinking the Canucks embellish or that they play dirty.
- Holding the puck call against the Canucks, but a SJ player holds the puck in the net and it's not a penalty or a penalty shot, yet somehow the play is whistled dead. Clearly you can see the player grabbing the puck as it's crossing the line.

Of course, I'm only adding to critics comment that we blame the Refs instead of playing the game. The problem is that Refs or the NHL are making it clear that they don't want a Canadian team in the finals due to bad ratings and they want a Boston or LA style team in the finals.

I'm guessing the Sedins are considering retirement rather than continue playing, because the Refs / NHL clearly don't like their style of play in the playoffs. So why bother continuing....


Well said, I think your analysis on why the Sedins performance dropped is accurate.

For some reason, when Henrik hooks on the opposing players, it's always a penalty but when he gets hooked, it's not a penalty. I noticed on multiple occasions where Henrik and Daniel were hooked as they were cycling the puck but the refs wouldn't call anything on them.

It appears that we don't have a chance to win with the Sedins... the refs won't let them play the game the way they can. F*ck NHL, two lockouts within 10 years, and now the horribly biased referring... the emotional drain that comes after each and every unfair loses... I gotta stop caring about this fuc*ed up league.
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#485 rwbernie

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:13 AM

any one see the the ottawa- montreal game yesterday,WOW--- the canucks should be forced to watch it 5 times and get some balls, come on where were the canucks, they didn't show !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#486 CHIPS

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:16 AM

I am guessing AV is gone 30 minutes after we lose game 4 by a score of 1-6. Why 1-6? Canucks often gets totally and hoplessly blown out in a must win game. The only exception was that game 7 against the Hawks.

Edited by CHIPS, 06 May 2013 - 10:17 AM.

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#487 BenDrinkin

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:19 AM

It really was awesome during that cup run, us against the world, great memories for ever.

But it's time to rebuild the team completely.

Honestly, I think we should model our team in the same direction as the big american markets, what ever direction that may be.
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#488 winter

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:59 AM

the morning after.. ugh
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#489 Apples

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:06 AM

the morning after.. ugh


Damn its hot today. I woke up sweating like a pig
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#490 Ronning4center

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:08 AM

Well said, sir.
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#491 Pavel_Bure 10

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:08 AM

Posted Image


lol
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#492 hockeygod7

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:27 AM

Just watched the game again on my pvr and iys a fact..penalties killed the canucks and yes they were not fair..i see it as i say..true facts that bettman has instructed to the reffs to do this..it kills a teams momentum...this is not hockey its a farce...
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#493 Ronning4center

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:28 AM

Good bye Alain Vigneault!!

I don't know man. AV has done pretty damn good with a pretty awful mismatched roster. Ebbet as a fourth line center? Sestito can barely play hockey, Raymond, Hansen, Roy as a third line? Not a hitter amongst them. Add to that the goalie issue....I put this squarely and solely on Mike Gillis.
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#494 hockeygod7

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:30 AM

im so mad at the officials..the puck looks like it crossed the line in that close goal in the third..it shows it behind the red line..you need to be fair nbettmann..its a joke..the canucks are good team..you cant ruin the game by poor officiating..
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#495 bluesman60

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:44 PM

Stop...just stop it. For the love of effing god, we don't need to rebuild or blow up this entire core. We needed to tweak things after 2011, sort of same with 2012. We don't need to tweak things anymore, but we don't need to blow up the team either. Get rid of Raymond and AV, I say give Gillis one more year, I wouldn't be upset if Edler is gone but I would still miss him. Roy will be gone, same with Ballard and Booth.

Raymond
Booth
Ballard
Roy
Luongo(Iunno, could be Schneids)
We have been tweaking for a few seasons now and it is not paying off. Our core has got to be able to score enough during the playoffs and they are not. Our 3rd and 4th lines have still got to provide some secondary scoring, they are not.The Cap is going down so we are going to lose players like Raymond,Ballard and Roy. So in the end that alone makes this team weaker than it is now. We have to make changes to the top 6 and get players who compete hard every nighht and can pot the goals. There has been ample time for this group to become a team and this group is not good enough...the time for tweaking is over....major changes needed.Perhaps Edler
AV
Perhaps Gillis

We don't need to get rid of our base core in Sedins, Kesler, Burrows etc. We're not the Calgary Flames, we still got a couple of years left. Don't get all insane and crazy okay.

This team has been tweaked over the last few seasons and that has not worked. Your top 4 players have to be putting the puck in the net and your 3rd and 4th lines have to potting the occasional goal as well....but they are not. We have gone from a team that played exciting hockey to a team that plays boring 1-0 games and spends half the game dumping the puck out.This team needs a shakeup in the top 2 lines. Av has been the winningest coach in Canuck history and coached the team to the 7th game of the SCF but this current team is a shadow of the past. I think too many players have become secure in their position and now need a new coach that they have to earn the respect again. This is not what you have done in the past but what you do today. It might be time for a coaching change and a changing of the core. It takes gutsy moves on the part of MG to make the big trade and take the flack for trading away a fan favorite. There will be players lost due to the cap dropping so an injection of youth is going to be required. The prospect depth is weak so trading some vets to restock with young talent that can push the established players and provide some game changing momentum.

Edited by bluesman60, 06 May 2013 - 04:01 PM.

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#496 rwbernie

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:55 PM

Its kinda like edmonton, a lot of real good players but not big enough, sharks and LA have huge guys that can play well, hard to beat, ya just can't move them out of the way,, that's what the new nhl seems to be about.

Edited by rwbernie, 06 May 2013 - 01:02 PM.

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#497 crossbar and in

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:11 PM

If anyone calls Kesler for embellishing a spear to the face, then what would you call Couture's swan dive after he was tapped on the helmet by Henrik. Between Couture and Thornton crying like a baby, the US Olympic diving team definitely need to get San Jose to show them how to fool the judges. San Jose embarrasses the character of any hockey player with their whining,diving and extreme embellishments. The refs have been made to look like fools when the replay shows their crap.
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#498 Danvilleshark

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:35 PM

If anyone calls Kesler for embellishing a spear to the face, then what would you call Couture's swan dive after he was tapped on the helmet by Henrik. Between Couture and Thornton crying like a baby, the US Olympic diving team definitely need to get San Jose to show them how to fool the judges. San Jose embarrasses the character of any hockey player with their whining,diving and extreme embellishments. The refs have been made to look like fools when the replay shows their crap.


I agree completely.Signed Marty Havlat
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#499 Darth Kane

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:46 PM

If anyone calls Kesler for embellishing a spear to the face, then what would you call Couture's swan dive after he was tapped on the helmet by Henrik. Between Couture and Thornton crying like a baby, the US Olympic diving team definitely need to get San Jose to show them how to fool the judges. San Jose embarrasses the character of any hockey player with their whining,diving and extreme embellishments. The refs have been made to look like fools when the replay shows their crap.


Although Couture sold it, the hit was more than just a tap on the helmet. If Marchand did this to Henrik everyone would be calling for a 10 game suspension.

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#500 endemic

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:47 PM

May be next year..... :picard:
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#501 kilgore

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:55 PM

The current situation is a fall out from the 2011 Finals.

It's clear to anyone watching that two things have happened since the Finals that have affected the Canucks confidence.

Both things essentially come from not being able to trust the Refs. It seems that the either playoffs are not suited for the Sedins or the Refs want a different style of play from teams in the playoffs.

Until the 2011 finals against Boston, the Sedins were scoring and teams were getting penalized for holding or slashing them. The Boston series changed everything including it seems the Refs opinion of the Canucks and the Sedins.
Suddenly it was okay to manhandle the Sedins, to crosscheck them from behind or pin them against the boards without getting penalized. The Sedins play stopped being effective because they couldn't cycle the puck anymore and the fall out was the other lines lost confidence in overall team scoring. If the 1st line can't score, then how can they win games?!

Another fallout from the Boston series is that the Canucks got labelled as fakers, divers and "girls", so Refs stopped calling plays that should have been penalties. I think the Canucks did start dramatizing things in the Boston series, but primarily because the Refs didn't seem to notice all the stuff Boston was doing.

Yesterday's game highlighted the influence of the Boston series.
- The Sedins were again manhandled, pinned against the boards and crosschecked from behind - no penalties and the Sedins eliminated offensively.
- Borderline calls against Vancouver as a result of Refs thinking the Canucks embellish or that they play dirty.
- Holding the puck call against the Canucks, but a SJ player holds the puck in the net and it's not a penalty or a penalty shot, yet somehow the play is whistled dead. Clearly you can see the player grabbing the puck as it's crossing the line.

Of course, I'm only adding to critics comment that we blame the Refs instead of playing the game. The problem is that Refs or the NHL are making it clear that they don't want a Canadian team in the finals due to bad ratings and they want a Boston or LA style team in the finals.

I'm guessing the Sedins are considering retirement rather than continue playing, because the Refs / NHL clearly don't like their style of play in the playoffs. So why bother continuing....


I agree. But its a no win situation criticizing the refs. They know it and we know it. So they are laughing. But you can't ignore the facts. Alex Burrows with the most minor penalties in the season. I don't know if this is a first, but how many times is the leading scorer on a team the most penalized player in the league? And don't you think this may have an adverse effect on our top line with so many chinsy penalties called against one of the key players on that line? I think its pretty obvious that the Auger Brotherhood is still holding their collective grudge.

On one hand it is fruitless to blame the refs for losses. But on the other hand, they can have a major impact on who wins a series. A ref can make 10x as many calls if he wants to with all the hooking and holding and interference, on both sides. So its a job of discretion for the most part. So why did the Sharks get 4 penalties and Canucks get 11 in that last game?

And its also what is NOT called. A Sharks player actually picks up and throws a puck and its not called?..yet Henrik gets called for batting the puck back after a face-off?

I think it may be a snowball effect. Burrows like the team, has gained a reputation, earned or not, so the refs know that this is a team that deserves to call penalties on. So they do. I don't even know if it changes if we revamped the whole lineup. This ref bias may go back to Bertuzzi. They effectively killed Berts forte of working the front of the net when they started calling the slightest push-off on the D-man. Yet D-men are allowed impunity for cross-checking forwards in the same area. Have you ever seen since Bertuzzi in Vancouver the refs cracking down on the push-off from anyone else?

Maybe its the city. Everyone is jealous.
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#502 apollo

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:56 PM

Although Couture sold it, the hit was more than just a tap on the helmet. If Marchand did this to Henrik everyone would be calling for a 10 game suspension.

Posted Image


You got that right... we would be calling for a suspension.
Shanahan wouldn't give marchand one vs hank tho... not unless marchand killed henriks family and released footage of it
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#503 longsuffering

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:10 PM

It really was awesome during that cup run, us against the world, great memories for ever.

But it's time to rebuild the team completely.

Honestly, I think we should model our team in the same direction as the big american markets, what ever direction that may be.

I agree but not if Gillis does the re-building!
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#504 longsuffering

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:12 PM

I don't know man. AV has done pretty damn good with a pretty awful mismatched roster. Ebbet as a fourth line center? Sestito can barely play hockey, Raymond, Hansen, Roy as a third line? Not a hitter amongst them. Add to that the goalie issue....I put this squarely and solely on Mike Gillis.

This is the team that Gillis built ...he should wear it before AV.
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#505 longsuffering

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:13 PM

any one see the the ottawa- montreal game yesterday,WOW--- the canucks should be forced to watch it 5 times and get some balls, come on where were the canucks, they didn't show !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This!
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#506 Apricot

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:43 PM


You replied inside of my quote, so I got fairly confused.

"We have been tweaking for a few seasons now and it is not paying off. Our core has got to be able to score enough during the playoffs and they are not. Our 3rd and 4th lines have still got to provide some secondary scoring, they are not.The Cap is going down so we are going to lose players like Raymond,Ballard and Roy. So in the end that alone makes this team weaker than it is now. We have to make changes to the top 6 and get players who compete hard every nighht and can pot the goals. There has been ample time for this group to become a team and this group is not good enough...the time for tweaking is over....major changes needed."

Thats what you said, yes?

I agree, there needs to be major changes. I feel like firing AV, Bowness, Brown is going to be a big change, and it'll show the players that no one is safe, and they need to step it up. But as I'm reading some posts in this thread, a lot of people are saying "Trade Sedins, Burrows, Bieksa, Hamhuis etc." I find that ridiculously ridiculous. We don't need to change our entire core. Raymond is as useless as they come, so we're not going to be missing him. Ballard, 4+ mill for a 6th defencemen? Roy, well he hasn't been the third line centre we wanted, and he's going to leave on his own so thats fine. Booth, way to injury prone. The young guns will step it up next season, and I'm sure we can pick up a couple of people in the off season with trades+signings.
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#507 crossbar and in

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:53 PM

Although Couture sold it, the hit was more than just a tap on the helmet. If Marchand did this to Henrik everyone would be calling for a 10 game suspension.

Posted Image

In case you failed to notice, Couture throws his hands back in a perfect execution of a flying swan dive as he pulls his arms back while arching his back and smiling for the crowd.
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#508 Neversummer

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:56 PM

Shocked by Henrick's butt to the end. When I first heard it on the radio, I thought it'd be an accident. But then I saw the replay and it was intentional. Yes ... that should get a look at by Shanny, if SJ did that to us ... we'd be jumping all over it.
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#509 sedins4life

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

relax, it's only 3 games

nux in 7


WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!! Isn't that what you said last year?!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry 4 being harsh but I'm just sick of being let down year after year. Sometimes its the refs fault, make that mostly the refs fault, sometimes its the other teams dirty play/hard hitting and sometimes its our own fault. You dont know how hard it is to be a nucks fan in Edmonton.
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#510 Darth Kane

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:13 PM

In case you failed to notice, Couture throws his hands back in a perfect execution of a flying swan dive as he pulls his arms back while arching his back and smiling for the crowd.


Who said I failed to notice what Couture did? Why exact words were "Although Couture sold it", so I know he did his best to draw a penalty.

Regardless of what Couture did, Sedin deliberately took his stick to another player's head, the video clearly shows that. I don't know if this was your intention, but you can't excuse Sedin's actions because Couture took a dive. Reverse the situation, imagine Couture doing this to Sedin, would you be focusing on Sedin's dive?

Edited by Darth Kane, 06 May 2013 - 03:15 PM.

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