n00bxQb Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 For me it isn't about who is paying it, it is about in year x when production slips and you have that cap to deal with. Look at how Booth, Ballard, and Luongo eat up cap space. There are 2 players on that list I actually like. But when the money becomes tight. It isn't fair to judge the Ehrhoff contract based on the new CBA since it was signed before its existence. I think I just don't like long term deals. Now there is some money tied up in salary. Comparitively, I would rather have Ehrhoff for 10 years at less money than Campbell. Either way our powerplay would have been miles better, I would hope anyways. As mentioned by Moneypuck, these guys are tough to come by. As I am defending my unsuredness towards the 10 year deal, I begin to waver towards retaining him a few years ago. Again, for me, it was never about the bad with Ehrhoff, we need a Dman with his skill set for our offence to shine. You're right. Gillis failed when he let him walk and never found a replacement. At the time I'm sure that he was hoping Edler was going to have a bigger role than he has shown to date. Oops. I bet he takes it. Sure it beats Ballard. But had we retained Ehrhoff we likely would never have acquired Ballard and would be comparing his 5.6 to Edlers 5. Each with 22 points this year. Having said that, I would rather sign the long deal for cheaper, stress NOT having an NTC, than shorter term and greater money. But yeah, it beats Ballard at 4.2. I like Ballard, he is just too costly. When you put it this way it's a no brainer: Ehrhoff @ 4 mil > Ballard @ 4.2 mil I'm almost hindsight reaching for the 40 million dollar pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Burrows 14 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 yes, no, yes, yes, no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyacry Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 What about Malhotra? This was one of Gillis' best acquisitions - a solid third line defensive centre and a very good faceoff man. It is extremely unfortunate how this unfolded. The loss of Manny was a major blow. Losing Salo hurt too but his contract is too rich for his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Fatigue Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 OOOO! fresh idea! let's hug on c.h's nuts!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drouin Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I miss Malhotra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hudson bay rules Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Well, ya can't keep everyone esp if they are offered a crazy contract elsewhere. I'd say Hodgson, Torres and Mitchell not only could've stayed but were cheap and contributors as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinteenseee Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 There's a common trend that all those 5 players managed to bring to the Canucks: Secondary scoring. The problem right now is that the Canucks cannot generate any offence. During the playoffs, teams spend hours watching tapes on the Sedins and Burrows cycling the puck - they devote a lot of effort into shutting down our first line, even moreso than the regular season obviously. This is why secondary scoring is so crucial to going deep in the cup. - Salo and Ehrhoff both had rocket shots and contributed offensively. - Samuelsson was THE most playoff clutch player we had on our team (eg. 1st round LA 2010). - Torres may not fall into this category entirely, but he was a huge physical force out there with the ability to turn a game around, like he has for the Sharks during this series. - Hodgson.. well.. I'm sure I don't need to explain his offensive scoring ability any further. Bottom line is, Gillis traded a lot of our major playoff impact players and got crappier returns in comparison. Kassian, Roy, Ebbett (lol), Booth.. what do these players really even offer? Kesler and Luongo will not win us the cup alone, no matter how beastly they are, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 Edler Bieksa, Kesler Henrik Sedin, also played injured. to be fair Grabner plays with Tavares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 Ask yourself this... Who has been the best line-mate for Kesler? Higgins, Booth, Raymond, Kassian or Samuelsson. Who has been the best offensive defenseman for the Canucks? Bieksa, Edler, Ehrhoff or Hamhuis. Who has been the best defense partner for Edler? Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Tanev or Salo. Who is the toughest player out of the bunch? (Gillis wanted toughness) Sturm, Higgins, Kassian or Torres. Who is the best point producer from the bunch? Roy, Kassian or Hodgson? Hear me out... Derek Roy was in the same spot Cody Hodgson was. Playing for the Sabres on the top line with Vanek and Pominville. He put up 44 pts in 80 games played. Hodgson put up 34 pts in 48 games, and played without Pominville for a period of time due to the trade to Minnesota. On pace for 58 points. Hodgson had 33 points in 63 games for the Canucks when he was on the third line with Higgins and Hansen. (.52ptspg) Roy had 6 points in 12 games for Canucks when he was on the second/third line with Higgins and Hansen. (.50ptspg) Roy has 28 points on the year. Hodgson has 34 points on the year. Hodgson is a young, developing talent for many years. Roy is a 30 year old free-agent rental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 Also all you Chris Higgins fan boys never look at this stat. Higgins 2010/11 playoffs: 25gp/4g/4a/8pts Primarily playing on the 2nd line with Ryan Kesler. Torres 2010/11 playoffs: 23gp/3g/4a/7pts Primarily playing on the 3rd line with Maxim Lapierre. Once again, Higgins is a no-show in the playoffs, up head to head agaisnt Raffi Torres. Who's making the bigger impact? Hell, in the regular season, Raffi Torres has 7g/11a/18pts in 39 games played and Higgins has 10g/4a/15pts in 41 games played.... Unfortunately both of these players could of been kept, but Gillis opted to sign Marco Sturm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 There's a common trend that all those 5 players managed to bring to the Canucks: Secondary scoring. The problem right now is that the Canucks cannot generate any offence. During the playoffs, teams spend hours watching tapes on the Sedins and Burrows cycling the puck - they devote a lot of effort into shutting down our first line, even moreso than the regular season obviously. This is why secondary scoring is so crucial to going deep in the cup. - Salo and Ehrhoff both had rocket shots and contributed offensively. - Samuelsson was THE most playoff clutch player we had on our team (eg. 1st round LA 2010). - Torres may not fall into this category entirely, but he was a huge physical force out there with the ability to turn a game around, like he has for the Sharks during this series. - Hodgson.. well.. I'm sure I don't need to explain his offensive scoring ability any further. Bottom line is, Gillis traded a lot of our major playoff impact players and got crappier returns in comparison. Kassian, Roy, Ebbett (lol), Booth.. what do these players really even offer? Kesler and Luongo will not win us the cup alone, no matter how beastly they are, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 Also a piece on Ehrhoff, he didn't play with the best talent, with the exception of Edler, which was forced due to the Sami Salo injury. I recall his first year, he primarily played with Shane O'Brien. He played quite a bit with Andrew Alberts as well, and formed a decent pairing. Samuelsson hattrick... Look what pairing was on the ice for all the goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I have to say nice post OP, I don't say that often, well written. I can agree with you on just about everything, the only thing I wouldn't probably agree with is Samuelsson. Don't get me wrong he did put up some good numbers for his value, but he was already older and is getting older. He always seemed to cough up the puck at the blue line a lot, used to piss me off all the time. Although I wasn't to excited with getting Booth, especailly with seeing his numbers dropping playing in Florida, that's not a good sign. I was kinda hoping for a Rick Nash type of player, or even a Bertuzzi, a big power forward who can score to play with the Sedins. Also mad about Mitchell, imo he is one of the best defensive shut down D in the game, and with him being a B.C. boy he had so much heart to play and win here, the Canucks need more players like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Kane Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 This again... Cody is not Logan Couture. I'll leave it at that on the Cody subject. I'll take Higgins over Raffi as a 3rd line LW. Ehrhoff, whatever. I would rather Garrison. At the time Bieksa was the better guy to keep. Salo, it just didn't make sense for us to offer him the contract Tbay gave him, we would have loved to keep him but we couldn't. No way that contract makes sense. And we don't miss Sammuelsson. Check out his GP this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 This again... Cody is not Logan Couture. I'll leave it at that on the Cody subject. I'll take Higgins over Raffi as a 3rd line LW. Ehrhoff, whatever. I would rather Garrison. At the time Bieksa was the better guy to keep. Salo, it just didn't make sense for us to offer him the contract Tbay gave him, we would have loved to keep him but we couldn't. No way that contract makes sense. And we don't miss Sammuelsson. Check out his GP this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Zamboni Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 ballard, booth, pahllson, sturm, m.schneider 5 players that the canucks wont miss. gillis has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitecarnage Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Willie Mitchell is the player I miss most. He's maybe the best shut down defenseman we've ever had. His career was in jeopardy yeah, but I'd take him over Ballard any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitecarnage Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Yet we gave him a limited NTC... Love Higgins but NTC (not just him) are going to be our kryptonite if it comes to a rebuild/retool/revamp/tweaking/change/blow up or whatever else everyone is calling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Except we already had Ballard for a year before Ehrhoff hit free agency ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missioncanucksfan Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 G: While I agree with your assessment of Samuelsson, I point out that his replacement (Booth) has NOT done a better job at bringing what Samuelsson did. Ya, Booth has crazy wheels, ya Booth is younger, but Booth hasnt come close to providing the offence that Samuelsson brought. Samuelsson scored more goals than Booths entire point production. Yes, Sammy was on the decline but his contract worth 2.5 was off the books by that seasons end. Where Gillis messed the bed, was that he traded Sammy for a player that was already deemed "damaged goods". Booth was a year removed from a serious concussion and i swear STILL hasnt fully recovered from. Not only that is that we are on the hook with his 4.5 contract for 4-5 more years. NOW all of us here and surely yourself is begging for him to be bought out. I dont know but is that just an example of poor pro scouting and bad example of being "fiscaly responsible"? Torres and Higgins were brought in for and demanded of different roles. Torres has matched Higgins production while getting primarily 3rd/4th line minutes all while terrorizing the $hit out of opposing defences will nasty hit after nasty hit. Imo, Torres earned every penny and was also making half of what Higgins is making. Next year Higgins goes up to 2.5..... At that price.... Who would you pick next year? And again, Torres only got a bad name mainly due to high ranking Chicago execs like Scotty Bowman barging into Bettmans office screaming rape n murder after Raffi would cleanly flatten one of their players. I explained to you that Ehrhoff alone didnt make the difference but his chemistry with the Sedins and other defence core is what made his value that much important and STILL worth what his contract was. Surely he would still be a factor on this team for the first 5-6 years of his contract... Maybe longer, we dont know. As for Hodgson.... He wouldve slotted in just perfect on the 2nd line all year until Kesler came back. Oh Im sorry, are you going to convince me that the combination of munchkins such as Schroeder and Ebbett, Burrows experiment, was head n shoulders a much better success? And again.... Heaven forbid that when Kesler DOES return that he get 3rd line role. Hodgsdon wouldve provided secondary scoring that this team lacked all year and maybe... Just may e take a bit of heat off of the Sedin line coz god knows.... They got the best defence match ups all year. So what if Hodgson wanted more ice time... I think he earned it and deserved it. You dont think Kesler isnt a pain in the ass and demanding ice time? Roy was a waste of a 2nd and a half decent defence prospect. But Gillis HAD to provide something at the deadline but this just shows his eye for pro scouting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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