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Wait a minute. What did Gillis say?


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#1 Bite me Burr

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:07 PM

Gillis said that, a few years back...years... like when Boston won the cup and then LA, a trend was emerging that saw big, fast, tough and aggresive steams win in the playoffs. So... NOW... he is going to "evaluate" things and move accordingly, though he says he disagrees with the style.

So he knew how to win, saw it, and didn't change... much? He should be fired then. Like any manager who comes out and says they saw it and did nothing because the disagreed with it while the business loses out.

Funny though, it all kind of adds up to what I have been going on about for years on here about what the Canucks need to win. I'm glad Gillis said it and is ready to make "bold" moves, again.

I see many posters have come around to what very few of us posters have been saying on CDC for a decade of more, that the Canucks aren't tough enough to push back when skill isn't enough and you need to impact the game another way. Now even the GM and all the hockey panels are repeating my/our words.

This year at least, we had Kassian and Sestito types. Too bad AV won't play toughness though.
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#2 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:09 PM

Magic wand malfunction?
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#3 oldnews

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:10 PM

Gillis said that, a few years back...years... like when Boston won the cup and then LA, a trend was emerging that saw big, fast, tough and aggresive steams win in the playoffs. So... NOW... he is going to "evaluate" things and move accordingly, though he says he disagrees with the style.

So he knew how to win, saw it, and didn't change... much? He should be fired then. Like any manager who comes out and says they saw it and did nothing because the disagreed with it while the business loses out.

Funny though, it all kind of adds up to what I have been going on about for years on here about what the Canucks need to win. I'm glad Gillis said it and is ready to make "bold" moves, again.

I see many posters have come around to what very few of us posters have been saying on CDC for a decade of more, that the Canucks aren't tough enough to push back when skill isn't enough and you need to impact the game another way. Now even the GM and all the hockey panels are repeating my/our words.

This year at least, we had Kassian and Sestito types. Too bad AV won't play toughness though.


Did you listen to yesterday's press conference?
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#4 Bite me Burr

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:11 PM

yes and many others
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#5 danjr

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:17 PM

If you didn't get it he said you have to wait and see if it is going to be just a short term trend, or the evolution of the game.
When they introduced the new obstruction rules, Vancouver decided to draft skill and speed. That was the way the game was supposed to be called. It sure isn't being called anywhere near what it was supposed to be. Now the Nucks have to find a way to get that Neaderthal mentatlity of players.
But the league will probably start penalizing Van for big hits, just because.
Screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.
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#6 DeNiro

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:19 PM

Every team wants the big tough fast players, but very few teams actually have them.

It's hard to change into a big tough team overnight with the Sedins leading the way.
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#7 DeNiro

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:23 PM

If you didn't get it he said you have to wait and see if it is going to be just a short term trend, or the evolution of the game.
When they introduced the new obstruction rules, Vancouver decided to draft skill and speed. That was the way the game was supposed to be called. It sure isn't being called anywhere near what it was supposed to be. Now the Nucks have to find a way to get that Neaderthal mentatlity of players.
But the league will probably start penalizing Van for big hits, just because.
Screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.


At this point I just wanna watch entertaining hockey though.

I'd rather lose with speed and skill, than lose with big grind it out goon hockey.

We've proven that skilled teams can make it to the dance. We just have to make sure all of the right support pieces are in place.

Edited by DeNiro, 10 May 2013 - 12:23 PM.

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#8 Everybody Hates Raymond

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:24 PM

Magic wand malfunction?


There's a pill for that.
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#9 etsen3

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:28 PM

Actually, he's been saying he wants to get bigger and younger for at least a year now. Look at the Kassian trade and the players he's been drafting the last two years.
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#10 Bite me Burr

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:28 PM

At this point I just wanna watch entertaining hockey though.

I'd rather lose with speed and skill, than lose with big grind it out goon hockey.


exactly the opposite of Canadian hockey...
I'd rather lose with an Iginla than a Sedin any day!
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#11 DeNiro

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:32 PM

exactly the opposite of Canadian hockey...
I'd rather lose with an Iginla than a Sedin any day!


And Iginla is skilled and fast is he not?

It's not the players it's the style. Iginla has the size and strength to play on a slow grinder team, but he also has the speed and skill to play on an offensive team like the Penguins.

It all comes down to which style you want to pay to see.
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#12 deized_kanuck604

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:52 PM

I believe he was making reference as to not getting rid of av
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#13 TheJokesOnYou

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:05 PM

If you didn't get it he said you have to wait and see if it is going to be just a short term trend, or the evolution of the game.
When they introduced the new obstruction rules, Vancouver decided to draft skill and speed. That was the way the game was supposed to be called. It sure isn't being called anywhere near what it was supposed to be. Now the Nucks have to find a way to get that Neaderthal mentatlity of players.


We do. His name is Daniel Sedin. He hits too hard for the NHL, even in OT.
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#14 ccc44

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:07 PM

Gillis said that, a few years back...years... like when Boston won the cup and then LA, a trend was emerging that saw big, fast, tough and aggresive steams win in the playoffs. So... NOW... he is going to "evaluate" things and move accordingly, though he says he disagrees with the style.

So he knew how to win, saw it, and didn't change... much? He should be fired then. Like any manager who comes out and says they saw it and did nothing because the disagreed with it while the business loses out.

Funny though, it all kind of adds up to what I have been going on about for years on here about what the Canucks need to win. I'm glad Gillis said it and is ready to make "bold" moves, again.

I see many posters have come around to what very few of us posters have been saying on CDC for a decade of more, that the Canucks aren't tough enough to push back when skill isn't enough and you need to impact the game another way. Now even the GM and all the hockey panels are repeating my/our words.

This year at least, we had Kassian and Sestito types. Too bad AV won't play toughness though.

I dont blame him for not wanting to change it because to be honest i dont want to spend the money on tickets to watch the dead puck era come back ,This year was a reminder on how un entertaining hockey can be
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#15 canso

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:05 PM

it seems like the '11 finals were seen by the whole league as a sign that big and tough is the new way of things, and that's a bummer. our boys had a meltdown in that series and i still don't buy that it was just because the bruins were tough and nasty, there has been a phsychological faultline running down the middle of this group for years and the bruins busted it open, just as the blackhawks have done several times playing a skill system.

the canucks could have won that series, and i wish they had. not only for the obvious reason of wanting to see them win the cup, but also so everyone could have come away having seen skill beat size, and so we wouldn't be having this conversation. that 2011 vancouver team played some sublime hockey at their best, it was so great to watch. and it's not as though they didn't hit hard, they did that too but they won on the strength of their skill.
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#16 cc_devil

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:05 PM

I think he actually meant if I hadn't been such an idiot we still would of had HOdgson who would of carried the third line and produced like Couture.But I"m a dumb***
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#17 B_a_M

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:12 PM

I feel like the NHL is changing every year. LA didn't win with size it was mostly their goaltending in Quick. Boston deftainely played a rough style of game then most teams do in the league. When Chicago won the cup they won with speed and skill and could very much do the samething this year. To win the cup you need a lot of bounces and to get lucky.
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#18 chrisbanks

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:25 PM

everyone is saying this size and strenght is beating skilll is not true just a couple teams over the last few years have had really good big skilled guys ... they havent just gooned it up with no skill and beat people into submission... LA had big bodys sure but their big bodies are some of the best players in the league like brown and kopitar .. richards and carter are no slouches either.. boston played a physicle style but still had a ton of skill on their team... ... LA and boston arguably have the best big guys in the league and know how to play to their strenghts both of them also put up the best goalie performances in the last decade in net.
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#19 canucklehead44

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:28 PM

1. We need to get rid of Ballard and acquire an offensive dman. Unfortunately Jovanovski & Ehrhoff types are hard to find - usually you just luck out. Here are three players I would like to see the Canucks target in place of Ballard:
  • Joni Pitkanen - 1 year left on his contract. Would cost a lot to acquire
  • Ryan Whitney - Whitney has struggled with injuries and inconsistent play, but still averaged around 42 points over 82 games with Edmonton. Could potentially be picked-up for 2.5-3.5 million depending on the market.
  • Andrej Meszaros - I really like his size and skating ability. Again he has suffered a lot of injuries, but I would gamble on a straight Ballard for Meszaros swap.
2. Speed and grit. I would love to see us get Raffi Torres or Matt Cooke back.

3. Bottom 6 faceoff winning centre. Brian Boyle comes to mind. Size, toughness, and 56% on the dot. Fairly skilled (score 20 goals one year), is usually near the league lead in hits and is capable of killing penalties.

4. Toughness - Pick up a legit heavy, just in case. McGrattan, Orrr etc are free agents.
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Sig too big.

#20 westcoast

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:29 PM

Gillis never really says much of anything.
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#21 Ginu

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:46 PM

There is a trend and all years have the same outcome in common... we lose the playoff run and rebuild for speed and skill, then we lose the game because were not tough enough and now we are being remodeled to be big, fast and skillful.... Sure its nice to think about this, but with our cap issues I just dont see what MG is talking about.

We were bigger and outhit this season and whats the outcome? a four game sweepbecause we cant score and refs are against us?

Sadly MG failed on a huge scale as a gm and AV was stubborn to play certain line combinations or certain players...


The truth is, the game is always changing from game to game from period to period from shift to shift and all that matters is how the players are being managed and the ability to adapt to different teams and different play-styles... Truth is AV has a really hard time adjusting and by the time he figures something out its just too late.

Edited by Ginu, 10 May 2013 - 02:46 PM.

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#22 SEAN HARNETT

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:48 PM

it seems like the '11 finals were seen by the whole league as a sign that big and tough is the new way of things, and that's a bummer. our boys had a meltdown in that series and i still don't buy that it was just because the bruins were tough and nasty, there has been a phsychological faultline running down the middle of this group for years and the bruins busted it open, just as the blackhawks have done several times playing a skill system.

the canucks could have won that series, and i wish they had. not only for the obvious reason of wanting to see them win the cup, but also so everyone could have come away having seen skill beat size, and so we wouldn't be having this conversation. that 2011 vancouver team played some sublime hockey at their best, it was so great to watch. and it's not as though they didn't hit hard, they did that too but they won on the strength of their skill.


I couldn't agree more!
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#23 Clinch16

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:54 PM

I think he actually meant if I hadn't been such an idiot we still would of had HOdgson who would of carried the third line and produced like Couture.But I"m a dumb***


You were ok there for a second but then you mentioned Hodgson so yes, dumb*** seems about right
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#24 Hairy Kneel

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:57 PM

The snake oil sales pitch prove why he was such a great players agent, speaking a lot w/o saying much.
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#25 oldnews

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:58 PM

yes and many others


then you would have heard him say that he has made a few moves in that direction (as you referenced) but it's not easy when everyone is seeking the same thing, and there is also little player movement. He said essentially that they tried but the results were measured.
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#26 Bodee

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:02 PM

At this point I just wanna watch entertaining hockey though.

I'd rather lose with speed and skill, than lose with big grind it out goon hockey.

We've proven that skilled teams can make it to the dance. We just have to make sure all of the right support pieces are in place.


Exactly.
Gillis talks like we are miles away. We aren't. The team is basically sound when fit and all we have ever needed was 2 or 3 of the right type of big body.
Gillis talks as if we have nothing on the ice. We weren't even fully fit plus I feel too much chemistry was lost because of continued changes, many unnecessary.
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#27 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:49 PM

And Iginla is skilled and fast is he not?

It's not the players it's the style. Iginla has the size and strength to play on a slow grinder team, but he also has the speed and skill to play on an offensive team like the Penguins.

It all comes down to which style you want to pay to see.


Well I think he's not alluding to big, fast, tough players, although they are the solution. Rather, offciating the games has returned to clutching, grabbing and guys like Marchand, or LA with King, Brown and Nolan all mucking it up. This limits the Twins puck possession game and scoring. One solution (see Samuelsson supplanting Burrows 2 years before that in the 1st round) has always been to find a bigger guy who can hang with the Twins. If that guy is supposed to be Kassian, Gillis and AV ought to have a chat.

If not, MG has failed to source a skilled role player with size. Strike one!

My two cents; in our SCF year what do you think Torres, Malhotra and Hansen's role was? They embodied this "new" thing. Although Manny also added a face off god; he was 220 lbs, fast and could handle all the match ups like Getzlaf or Thornton. And Torres and Hansen, Torres in particular who is also 215 lbs, slaughtered people on the fore-check. And we had Kesler, a supremely strong athlete, running around on another line. Have we ever caught him or Burrows clutching and grabbing? We were that new trend with size flying around hitting people; with the leagues best PK unworried it would hurt us. Now some of those guys are gone, and Kesler has pretty much been injured since. If this is Kassian's role to fill, him and AV (or a new coach) ought to have a chat?

We have gone backwards in terms of team size and speed. I posted 2 years ago, sure Higgins is a better hockey player; it does not mean he helps our team as much as Torres who was a physical hand full. MG instead has been drafting and trading for bigger guys to fill such roles. See Kassian, Jensen, Gaunce, Mallet, Booth. But to literally steal a baseball analogy; none of them hit in the big leagues! Batta swing; strike 2!

And I know the OP wants a pitcher who'll dust back opponents with high heat, and a catcher who'll break your knee's.

But the real reason we finally beat Chicago in '11, our D beat fore-checkers to the puck and we were up ice before we could get hit. Edler is now a step slower, and Erhoff lugged the puck better than Garrison or Salo. Its why LA's crushing pressure wore us out. And with Erhof playing hurt and Hamhuis out also Bostons pressure hammered us. So we start coughing it up and play defence on our heels; just like this last series against SJ! Our D is simply not as good at moving the puck, and then jumping into the play to finish teams off.

Strike 3!

Our real problem is not any new trend; we ourselves are not as fast, big and talented as we once were...


exactly the opposite of Canadian hockey...
I'd rather lose with an Iginla than a Sedin any day!


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#28 debluvscanucks

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 03:55 PM

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