CowtownCanuck Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Sadly we won't know until the experiment has been half produced. Every time you try to re-tool a team you are chasing a moving target. In 94 we nearly won the cup, there were a lot of discussions with the GMs following that about clutch-and-grab hockey and opening it up to the speed and finess players (sound familiar?). As a result in the years following, we dumped some of the size of the team, picked up players like Russ Courtnall and Alexander Mogilny, unfortunately the league forgot to change until several years later. But now teams are able to beat their way to the cup. "Dirty Hockey wins cups". Should we try to align oursleves to that theory the league will shift on us again. We already have a bad history with the refs, dirty hockey will not serve us well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 12 Ryan keslers and 6 Aaron romes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Green Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Gotta set trends, not follow them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue & Green Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 "Five years ago we came in here and reset this organization and it's time to do it again," Gillis said. "When I took this job we decided on a style of play [skill, speed, puck possession] that resulted in great success, and clearly the landscape has changed and we have to address those changes". No doubt I would rather watch 2011 Canucks rather than the 2013 St. Louis Blues. I hope we don't throw the baby out with the bath water. In 2011, the Canucks were that skilled, fast, puck possession team that was great to watch. Puck possession starts by winning the majority of the face-offs. It's pretty difficult to set the tone of the play if you are chasing after the draw most of the time. With all due respect to Roy, Schroeder, and Ebbett, the Canucks really need to address this not only with a healthy Kesler, but with a much needed NHL caliber 3rd line center that wins F/O's. It's no wonder the Canuck specialty teams took a dive this season. Also, the Canucks have had much more difficulty this season keeping possession and breaking out of their own end. No doubt Salo was a loss but this years defensive core doesn't make the great quick breakout passes consistently like it use to... yes, especially Edler. Perhaps a shake up with a new coach or trading for a puck moving defenseman will help. However, I believe the Canucks must balance this team with a bit more muscle especially in the top six, protect the stars... easy to say, hard to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 The Sedins played the PK after the previous lockout under Crow. It was well into January before anybody scored a PP goal against them. Henrik had a goal and two assists shorthanded, while Daniel had two assists. They can in fact PK. AV doesn't like to use his best offensive weapons in a defensive situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Shirokov Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Exactly my point. Why the hell does AV not let them do what other elite players do? Top impact players on other teams do it all. The fact that the Sedins do not PK or really play much on the defensive side of things likely contributes to them not being much better than average defensively and takes them out of games for long stretches especially in series like the SJ one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyfall Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Because they should be using all of their energy to generate offense. It was well documented that the Sedins became great two-way players this season, but they definitely took a step backwards offensively. We had to do it since our center ice depth looked like this for most of the season: H.Sedin Ebbett Schroeder Lapierre In addition, I'd rather not have our best players blocking shots. If they ever went down with injury, we'd be absolutely screwd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 free the horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personaltrainer604 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Of course you need some size. That's pretty much what the third and fourth lines should be for. And we do have some size, but need a little more. Every year Gillis harps on the importance of a good fourth line, yet never goes out and does anything to improve it. It's a constant revolving door every season. I'm talking about the style of play though. No matter if our player are big or small we have to play an agressive attack style of hockey. Sitting back and defending with the roster we have won't equal success. My point is, we don't need to suddenly change this teams identity, just some of it's personnel. Surround the Sedins with skilled players, and their level of skill will increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personaltrainer604 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Skill or a better term: offensive IQ. Not sure if it was AV's doing or whoever is in charge of the offence. Our players only go in a straight line while entering the offensive zone or use the dump and chase. This system is effective because it allows the dman to change efficiently and not get caught too often. But, this is very predictable and can be shut down quite easily by other teams fast good dmen. Other offensive teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh would either do simple criss-crosses to confuse the dmen and create space or use the triangle formation where one man charges the net while the guy with the puck decides whether to shoot to score, shoot for a rebound, or pass to the third guy for a shot. In short, I have basically watched all the regular season games for the Canucks and I have not seen them do any criss-crosses or triangular attack formations while entering the zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Our top 6 has been lacking the aggressiveness..they are skilled, but the speed on the first line lacks, as well as the forecheck...looking at our roster, our top 9 is soft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 free the horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personaltrainer604 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 It's that kind of fear that holds back the Canucks. At the same time the coach should be working wit the depth and young players to be better on offense. Basically as much as possible anybody at any time should be expected to play solid D and to be effective on offense. What the Canucks have been reduced to are one dimensional roles with no further development from the coach. The result is if one player goes down the whole team seems to be screwed like when malholtra went down. Seriously I've never known any team including underdog teams that needed every single player 100% healthy just for their system to work. The excuses have to stop. I understand what AV does but I strongly disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personaltrainer604 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 That comes down to coaching. If you demand your players go to the net, they'll go. Otherwise they don't get any ice time. It's hard for players to do that when the coach is constantly telling you to dump and change though. That seems to be the only solution Av had left. That's why a new coach who preaches going to the dirty areas is needed. Even Raymond was going there again this season, but he reverted back to his perimter play. That's when the coach should have jumped on him. And when he doesn't adapt, you bench him for a few games. There was too much buddy buddy attitude going on after 7 years though. We need a coach that's not afraid to lay down the law, and call players out when they need to bring more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB007 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 We need guys who hit to hurt in the top six, who can drive to the net with the puck, and Dmen who can prevent other teams' forwards from doing so. We need to play a simpler game. Dump out and dump in. Clear our net and crowd theirs. Clear rebounds and bang in rebounds. Puck possession aint very useful if you are always possessing them on the outside. Nothing in the slot and no net presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB007 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 What is needed is balance, producing the ablility to adjust to the other team. You need skill/speed and toughness, but on the same line. Bringing in size is a great idea, but not if they are all on the forth line. you need it all on the same line. My belief is that having a scoring line and then a tough line and a speed line is totally ineffective. Spread the scoring out, put some size on each line, roll four lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdc Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 How many years have the Sharks used the philosophy of size and toughness? And how many years have they had success in the playoffs? Sure they made it to the second round, but they did it on the backs of their skilled guys and their powerplay. Not grinding it out goon hockey. If they win the cup this year, it won't be because of size or toughness, it will be because of skilled guys like Thornton, Marleau, Couture, and Pavelski. They also got rid of their grittiest players at the deadline and signed Scott Gomez. Maybe they're realizing that there's no substitute for skill after all. Their top powerplay is also key to their success. Not too many teams other than the Bruins make it to the finals without a lethal powerplay. This happens every year after there's a new champion. The Ducks win and everyone thinks they have to be big and nasty. Then the Wings, Penguins, and Hawks win and it's skill that rules. After that it's the Bruins and Kings, and then it's size and defense that wins. All of these teams had grit, it's the personnel and the style of play that was different. The Hawks, Wings and Pens built around skill because that's what their core was made up of. And the Bruins, Ducks, and Kings built around size and defense because that's what their core was made up of. The Canucks core is built around skill, and need to supplement that core with skill. Does that mean we don't need some size and grit? Of course not. But thinking that we're going to win playing like the Kings and Bruins, when the team just isn't setup that way is a recipe for failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewonder20 Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Depends on who wins the SC ... then we will try to mimic them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Average Joe Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Three ways - Fear - Intimidation - Cheating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangelos Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 The canucks management should take a good look at the LA Kings, and do EXACTLY what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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