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Why buyout our players?

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#1 Warhippy

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:04 AM

This is something I;ve been thinking about for a while.

Monetarily our team is tight to the cap. Everyone has the Canucks buying out this guy that etc without due consideration as to the alternatives.

Is there a market for Ballard, Luongo Edler etc? Yes of course there is. There is always a GM that will give something up. We've seen that with Clowe, Ott, Redden, Gomez. There's a GM for our players we just have to find the fit and the right return.

Which brings me to my question. Asset management is the key to building a good club right? So if there was a trade that saw the Canucks bringing back say Lecavelier, Campbell or even Dipietro with a promise to eat and nom nom nom their horrible contracts for a greater retrun as a favour from the trading team....why waste a buyout on say Ballard?

I only ask this because everyone and their dog has a proposal seeing Dipietro coming to Van for a buyout. The key to any NYI trade that would see the Canucks getting their 1st rounder, Nino, Nelson De Haan or any of their top picks or prospects would be eating a bad contract. Same goes with Florida and numerous other teams in the league.

Since we don't know what Aquillini's mindset is and we certainly don't know what him and Gillis talk about this is all theory and speculation.

But as a fan and sarmchair GM ask yourself this. If you were willing to pay out money to let a guy just walk away and call it a bad investment, wouldn't you be open to eating someone elses bad contract for a genuine return while attempting to garner a return for the player you'd debated buying out?

Personally in my opinion if I am considering buying out Ballard or Booth, I am much happier taking on Campbells contract and a good pick or prospect in return as a favour and then trying to trade said player.

Again I only ask you to consider this from the position of armchair GM not the team itself. Why spend money for nothing, when you can spend that same money for something back?

Just a question I have been wondering and trying to gauge the mindset of the average fan in regards to buyouts.
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CIaude Giroux Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:15 PM


He's out for 6 months (which will hinder his development) and he really needs that development. There's already worries that he won't translate to the NHL and he'll end up a huge ass bust.

 

 


#2 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:13 AM

As an armchair owner I would fire the GM who is responsible for putting the team in this position in the first place, I know that.
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#3 Warhippy

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:15 AM

As an armchair owner I would fire the GM who is responsible for putting the team in this position in the first place, I know that.

You and me both, but sadly we don't get that option
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CIaude Giroux Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:15 PM


He's out for 6 months (which will hinder his development) and he really needs that development. There's already worries that he won't translate to the NHL and he'll end up a huge ass bust.

 

 


#4 qwijibo

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:22 AM

The thing is there weren't markets for Gomez and Redden. Yes, they were still somewhat serviceable NHL players, but not at the cap hits they carried. You don't think Montreal and New york would have tried to get anything at all in return for those players? They were bought out becasue they couldn't be traded and their cap hits put their respective teams in a very bad position. I don't think Ballard and Luongo are quite the same extreme, but finding a trading partner for either might be a challenge. Especially if other gm's feel that if they wait they can pick up players that have been bought out on a new, highly discounted contract.
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#5 TheLiveWire

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:36 AM

Exactly. Instead of buying out, lets say ballard, You might as well trade him. Even if all you get is a 7th round pick, you still get something for him.
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#6 qwijibo

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:42 AM

Exactly. Instead of buying out, lets say ballard, You might as well trade him. Even if all you get is a 7th round pick, you still get something for him.


Sounds easy enough right? But the bottom line is you need to find a teams that
a) has the cap space to take him on
B) has the need for him
c) feels that he's worth his $4.2M cap hit. (based on how he has played and how he's been used in Vancouver this could be a real sticking point)

The options just got a lot more limited
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#7 Warhippy

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 09:51 AM

I don't think a 3rd or even a 2nd round pick is out of the question for Ballard, especially after seeing what Streit just got and knowing the market is bare indeed.

But take Ballard and instead of buying him out, send him to a team with a horrible contract for a better return. I am saying simply if you're intent on buying someone out, get return for it. Ballard for a contract and better pick or blue chip prospect.

There's more than a few teams with contracts they'd love to shed for the price of a pick or a prospect I am sure.

And that's all I am saying.
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CIaude Giroux Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:15 PM


He's out for 6 months (which will hinder his development) and he really needs that development. There's already worries that he won't translate to the NHL and he'll end up a huge ass bust.

 

 


#8 qwijibo

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:04 AM

I don't think a 3rd or even a 2nd round pick is out of the question for Ballard, especially after seeing what Streit just got and knowing the market is bare indeed.

But take Ballard and instead of buying him out, send him to a team with a horrible contract for a better return. I am saying simply if you're intent on buying someone out, get return for it. Ballard for a contract and better pick or blue chip prospect.

There's more than a few teams with contracts they'd love to shed for the price of a pick or a prospect I am sure.

And that's all I am saying.


Except Ballard is considered to be a bad contract too. So all you're doing is exchanging bad contracts. If each team feels they are taking the other teams problem child, who is going to give up the extra assets to make it happen?
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#9 RonMexico

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 10:19 AM

The cost to buyout Ballard is 5.6 million. Imagine asking your owner to give 5.6 mil away?

Doug MacLean on buyouts:

Former Columbus GM Doug MacLean, a Sports-net analyst, said it is a tough conversation to have with the owner.

"I had to go into my owner and tell him I was buying out Andrew Cassels and it was $900,000. It wasn't a very pleasant meeting," said MacLean.

"First of all it was awful to phone Andrew because he was a great guy and it was worse to tell the owner. You have to admit you made a mistake."
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#10 elvis15

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:23 AM

...
Which brings me to my question. Asset management is the key to building a good club right? So if there was a trade that saw the Canucks bringing back say Lecavelier, Campbell or even Dipietro with a promise to eat and nom nom nom their horrible contracts for a greater retrun as a favour from the trading team....why waste a buyout on say Ballard?
...

So in your armchair deal for Lecavalier, Campbell or even DiPietro, are we A. getting compensative value back in return for taking on the buyout, and B. getting rid of a contract of our own to free up the space we need to?
  • If we're only getting a buyout candidate and some small pieces, it makes no sense.
  • If we aren't moving out one of Luongo, Ballard or Booth, it makes no sense.
  • If we choose to move a better asset like Edler but take on a buyout, it makes no sense.
That's why people talking about DiPietro are doing so. NYI has openly stated they're willing to make it worth the while of the team that will take DiPietro from them. That can mean taking back a bad contract from the other team they can at least use and/or adding assets to sweeten the pot. In the case of trading back Luongo, he has a contract we'd like to move but also fills a big need for NYI so they'd be adding assets (my proposal is Neiderreiter, DeHaan and their 1st) while also taking a contract off our hands that is bad for us, but not as much for them.

When mentioning Ballard (and Booth), teams may take them back in a buyout trade but they won't give us extra assets for the privilege on top of the buyout candidate. We're better off to trade them for a mid round pick if that's what we want to do, and even if that doesn't work then we could put them on waivers and a team would be likely to take them.

If Booth can find a way to make his offence match his strong possession game then he can be useful to us. Ballard can't just improve to be useful though, he'll still be stuck behind 4 other D unless someone's traded. We'll have to see what Gillis can get or if he makes use of them another way.
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#11 Lidstrom

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:19 PM

Still can't believe NYR got McDonagh for Gomez. It gives me hope with Luongo

EDIT: NYR got Chris Higgins in the Deal too. Did a little digging and found this quote.

"We are extremely pleased to have acquired a player of the caliber ofScott Gomez. He is an outstanding playmaker and an excellent skater. Having won the Stanley Cup twice with the New Jersey Devils, he brings to our team a lot of playoff experience. Scott is an elite player who will certainly contribute to the success of our team for years to come" said Canadiens GM Bob Gainey.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but Gomez was near useless at that point anyways. Horrible trade.

Edited by Lidstrom, 20 June 2013 - 07:23 PM.

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#12 TheLiveWire

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:26 PM

The cost to buyout Ballard is 5.6 million. Imagine asking your owner to give 5.6 mil away?

Doug MacLean on buyouts:

Former Columbus GM Doug MacLean, a Sports-net analyst, said it is a tough conversation to have with the owner.

"I had to go into my owner and tell him I was buying out Andrew Cassels and it was $900,000. It wasn't a very pleasant meeting," said MacLean.

"First of all it was awful to phone Andrew because he was a great guy and it was worse to tell the owner. You have to admit you made a mistake."

Imagine that meeting. "Yeah dude... Please don't fire me. I made a mistake, so Can I get 5.6 million dollars? Oh and again, please don't fire me."
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#13 TheLiveWire

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:29 PM

Sounds easy enough right? But the bottom line is you need to find a teams that
a) has the cap space to take him on
B) has the need for him
c) feels that he's worth his $4.2M cap hit. (based on how he has played and how he's been used in Vancouver this could be a real sticking point)

The options just got a lot more limited


True but I don't think he's useless. I think ballard is a good dman, we just don't have the cap for him. he would fit somewhere like edmonton or colorado if you ask me.
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#14 erkayloomeh

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:39 AM

If I were a wealthy owner i would not bat an eye at a buyout like ballard or booth. sure, id rather a trade of some sort but if that wasnt possible then i would buy him out. I would even take a dipietro and buy him out if it meant getting a top pick in return. a top pick will cost me not much in the upcoming years compared to what an established winger for example would cost.
besides, the cap has gone down and our owners will be having a payroll that has dropped by 7 mil for the near future. they implemented the comp buyout for a reason....use it to our advantage to improve our team and future position. I am totally in favor of using the buyout to our advantage.
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