Larry Brooks writes interesting article about AV and Torts

[CanucksJay]

Who here thinks Nucks will get past 1st round with Torts? I do.

Funny thing is, I'm pretty sure if AV was still here and we had another 1st round exit, the AV lovers will keep crying that MG hasn't done enough.

Regardless, I still wouldn't be happy with just winning round 1 but it will be interesting to see what the impact of coaching will be as it seems like most of the team will stay in tact for next season so we will pretty much be able to compare apple to apples.

So predictions for next year anyone?

[schlaBAM]

Just realized Brooksie is a writer for NY Post. He now has 0 credibility, what a terrible news source. Obviously going to be biased.

[pimpcurtly]

Not to mention "moron" on a number of occasions.

People here seem to have the biggest beef with Brooks for the famous "get the eff outtta here, then, Brooksie" comeback in that after-game scrum. But not too many seem to recall how that back-and-forth developed since the sensationalistic sound-byte gets all the replays. In it, Tortorella was stonewalling legit questions by several reporters with a repeated "no comment" type ploy. Brooks finally asked him point blank if he was going to answer the questions at all. That's when Tortorella -- in bizarre Tortorella fashion -- went ape-doodoo.

If people think he's gonna "tone it down" as coach here, they'll be in for a surprise. CDCers can call Botchford, Willes, MacIntyre and Gallagher idiots all they want (on the latter I heartily agree), but they know enough about the Canucks personnel, history and on-ice tactics to ask Tortorella tough questions when tough times appear.

I must be in the minority. I don't want to see Tortorella's head explode for "entertainment" purposes. If I wanted that, I'd tune in to the WCF (and I don't watch that, either). In a presser, I want to hear sane answers to legit questions put forth by the media there, who, despite everyone's constant bitching about their motives and intelligence, are there to serve the listeners by asking those tough questions, even if you think it reflects poorly on the team from a cheerleading standpoint.

In any event, this stuff gets way too much attention. More importantly, IMO Tortorella is an unimaginative coach who'll add little if anything to the Canucks offensive strategy. But the locker-room approach -- and the comments about players in public -- won't work either, certainly not long-term.

[Lipschitz]

So goddamned sick of reading this everywhere.

[Lipschitz]

All the supposed Canucks fans who think Tortorella is a bad choice for coach need to take a long vacation. He has won a Stanley Cup. He is passionate about hockey. He knows what he is doing.

So what he is rough with the media. What has the media done in this city to convince anyone here that they support the team. The media here, just like anywhere else, is a parasitic entity that needs a Tortorella to slap it down once in a while.

How he treats the media should matter very little into Tort's hiring. The media will never help the Canucks win a Cup. Ever.

[Barry_Wilkins]

All the supposed Canucks fans who think Tortorella is a bad choice for coach need to take a long vacation. (1)He has won a Stanley Cup. (2)He is passionate about hockey.(3)He knows what he is doing.

(4)So what he is rough with the media. What has the media done in this city to convince anyone here that they support the team. The media here, just like anywhere else, is a parasitic entity that needs a Tortorella to slap it down once in a while.

How he treats the media should matter very little into Tort's hiring. The media will never help the Canucks win a Cup. Ever.

[wallstreetamigo]

But someone did call him an "assclown". Who was that again?

[RUPERTKBD]

He has definitely had his assclown moments for sure. Just like you have too..... And me.

It is also funny how you never say anything to me when I suggest he is a good coach though........

[Boudrias]

That's because I have trouble believing it. I can't figure out how you can slam a coach for so many things, yet still believe he's a good coach.

From what I can see, you trot that "but he's still a good coach" line out every once in a while, to try and give the impression that you are being objective, but IMO, anyone who refers to an NHL coach as an "assclown", "moron" or "idiot" as often as you do, cannot possibly believe that he is good at his job.

[CB007]

Why don't they just hire a PR person to deal with the media and leave the coaches, GM's and players alone!

[DarthNinja]

Here is what Brooks has to say about the real nature of his relationship with Torts:

VANCOUVER — Larry Brooks says he wishes John Tortorella nothing but the best. Seriously.

Brooks, the veteran New York Post hockey columnist whose exchanges of verbal jousting with Tortorella have become legendary, says he and Tortorella for the most part got along just fine.

"We have a much, much better personal relationship than anyone would infer from watching the YouTube clips and TSN Top 10 Moments and stuff like that," Brooks said over the phone Sunday night. "I have known him for a long time and we have had a lot of conversations and we have spent a lot of time trying to come to an understanding.

"I think 99 per cent of the time it was fine. The one per cent of the time, well, we are both volatile personalities and it just exploded and it dwarfed everything else. I hope he does well there and and I hope he has peace there because there's no need to fight every day."

Tortorella, who was fired last month after the New York Rangers lost in the second round of the playoffs, is expected to be introduced as the new head coach of the Vancouver Canucks early this week.

Brooks acknowledged that Tortorella will be challenged working in a hockey-mad market like Vancouver.

"The New York market for hockey doesn't compare to a Canadian market and certainly not Vancouver," Brooks said.

So how will Tortorella handle dealing with the rabid hockey media north of the border?

"I really do think it's up to him," Brooks said. "He has a choice to make and I think he had a choice to make in New York. He can be incredibly charming, he can be engaging when he wants to be. He's informative when he wants to be and there are times for whatever reason he decides to go the opposite way.

"It will be interesting to see whether people there attempt to provoke him or whether it's an entire new start for him. For him, I hope it's a new start. I do."

Brooks says things really went south for Tortorella during last year's playoffs when the Rangers made it through to the third round. He was frequently short and downright rude to reporters.

"He was abrupt and there was so much national coverage of it that the personna he adopted for last year's playoffs has dogged him since. I think up until then it was some good, some bad. But last year's playoffs was a real tough one."

Brooks has known Tortorella since the 1999-2000 season when he was an assistant coach with the Rangers and said in recent years the two of them came to an understanding that they would do their best to get along.

"We have always had a good relationship and our relationship became almost a caricature in a lot of ways," Brooks said. "A couple of years ago he and I reached an understanding that we were both going to do whatever we could not to provoke each other in public and if we had issues we were going to deal with them behind closed doors because these public episodes were kind of embarrassing to both of us after a while."

Brooks was surprised when Tortorella's name surfaced as a serious candidate for the Canucks' job because he doesn't see him as a Mike Gillis kind of guy.

Brooks now has Vancouver's former coach, Alain Vigneault, to deal with.

"It should provide a pretty intersesting narrative this year to see how each team responds under the new guy and under obviously dramatically different dynamics," he said.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/vancouver-canucks/John+Tortorella+media+York+wishes+well/8567991/story.html

[RUPERTKBD]

He has definitely had his assclown moments for sure. Just like you have too..... And me.

It is also funny how you never say anything to me when I suggest he is a good coach though........

[RUPERTKBD]

Then go read something else, perhaps? The Alain Vigneault ship has sailed, maybe you can cheer for the Rangers now.

[Putgolzin]

Which basically made him another Eklund.

My point is he doesn't get his named mentioned nationally on Sportscenter without Tortorella.

[wallstreetamigo]

BTW: What "assclown" moments have I had? Please show me, because I honestly disagree with that. I tend to couch my opinion as just that: opinion, and I refrain from using derogatory language towards other posters.

Or do you mean that anyone who disagrees with you is automatically an assclown?

[RUPERTKBD]

First, I think you missed my attempt at humor there although i am pretty sure you did so purposely as it is an opportunity for you to further an argument.

In terms of you (and pretty much everyone else in the world at some point) acting like an assclown it should be pretty obvious. To me, anyone who brings up one thing someone said while ignoring or dismissing other things that same person has said on the other side of the argument is being an assclown and is doing so purposely. It is something you feel the need to consistently do to me simply because I criticize AV or Bieksa. That is all good but you are still an assclown about it.

Kind of like you suggesting that I do not actually believe AV is a good coach and I just say that to look objective. I have actually given many examples and opinions on things that he does well as a coach over the years. The fact that I also believe he has done some completely stupid things and acted like an assclown in how he has handled certain situations is the only thing you seem to think I have ever said though.

With all due respect, it gets tiring to be followed around by you into all kinds of thread trying to take something I said out of context or paint me a certain way while ignoring completely other things I have said on the same topic that do not fit in neatly with your opinion of me.

[wallstreetamigo]

Seems to me that you're the one who ignores the other things you say.

In one thread, you say the twins run the show. You say AV makes terrible personnel decisions, can't adapt his strategy, plays "favorites" over players who are "more deserving", doesn't hold his players accountable, deosn't talk to his players, presides over a "country club" atmosphere, etc., etc...

In another thread you say AV is a good coach. How can someone with so many supposed flaws possibly be a good coach? Why on earth did Sather hire him? Is Salts an "assclown" as well, in your mind?

BTW: I disagree with your premise. I don't see why I should not take issue with some of the things you say, just because you might say something mitigating in other instances.

[RUPERTKBD]

All of those statements are true imo. That does not mean he is not a good coach though. His style no longer was effective in Vancouver though partially because he had been here so long and the players need something different to get motivated and a fresh start. All of those things come over time. That does not mean he will go to NY and make the same mistakes which I think he even said himself he will learn from his time in Vancouver to become a better coach.

Vigneault himself stated on many occasions that he does not talk to the players much or really go to the dressing room. And that works in his mind. It got to the point here where it wasn't working though. He is now going to a place that will breathe a sigh of relief at that approach. Hopefully that will work for him there better than it did here the last few years.

EVERY coach has flaws. Every coach does some things well and other things poorly. Just like in every other walk of life.

Are you really asking me if Sather is an assclown expecting me to say no? Not for hiring AV though. It is a good hiring based on the type of coaching style and personality that it appears their team needs. It is a similar team in the ways that will help AV build a similar system but at a different stage in some ways with regards to prospects so he will not have to really develop them like he did in Van.

And I never said you can't take exception to anything I say. Feel free. But don't pretend to know what I believe or what I don't. If I say it, I mean it. And I think AV is a good coach in many ways. I think he is a bad coach in many ways too, just like I would say about any other coach.

[Lipschitz]

(1) So has Mike Keenan. So has Terry Crisp. So has Mark Crawford. Why haven't they been hired lately? Think it might have something to do with factors like Stanley Cup winners depending on much more than the coach during an isolated two month stretch? A Stanley Cup winner is, was, and always will be just that. Take every coach out of the equation and see how well each team does. Besides both Keenan and Crawford are enjoying their new jobs.

(2) So are fans. Why aren't there more calls for CDCers to get a Gillis interview then? Thanks for the heads up, Barry. I had no idea fans were passionate. I'm pretty sure Gillis is looking for someone with actual coaching experience. Tortorella's passion is undeniable. Vigneault seemed to lose focus. How else can you explain leaving your star goaltender in net to get lit up on numerous occasions?

(3) Non sequitur.

(4) Not the point. To you maybe. Those who think it a bad idea for the coach to swear at the media doesn't automatically mean they support the media. Jumping all over the media after innocuous questions at worst, challenging questions at best, equals a distraction which the media blows up. (News flash: the media isn't "scared" of guys like Tortorella, they can't believe their good fortune in getting the attention, which only encourages them to act tough themselves.) Circus ensues. Negativity expands. Players have to think about it, and get asked questions about it themselves. Not good. These are all suppositions, at best. If the media expects the most out of their subjects, then they should also hold themselves to a standard that eschews asking moronic questions.

But what's worse with Tortorella is he throws players under the bus. In public. That's never good. It's certainly not a motivator. Players still collect their cheques, and bide their time until the coach is canned. Alain Vigneault never threw Ryan Kesler under the bus? Please. The players should be motivated. The coach is their to ensure it through any means necessary. Maybe the Canucks lackluster play can be attributed to waiting out Vigneault. Watching the series against San Jose, it certainly looked like the Canucks were collecting and not much else.

[BedBeats™2.0]

Then go read something else, perhaps? The Alain Vigneault ship has sailed, maybe you can cheer for the Rangers now.