Guest Dasein Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 He hasn't been fantastic offensively, that's for sure. But anyone into advanced stats know what his defensive numbers have been since the start of the season? Wondering where his first year development is ranked and compared to the Patrice Bergerons and Mike Richards'. Well Bergeron had 16G23A39P in 71GP as an 18 yr old and Richards 11G23A34P in 79GP as a 20 yr old so it's kind of hard to compare Bo to those two guys who had a bigger role on their respective teams than Bo does right now. I'd say Bo might be further along than Richards simply because he's in the NHL as a 19 yr old (although Richards never had the chance since his 19 yr old season was the NHL lockout). Bo is definitely not in Bergeron's league in terms of development at this stage but I think Richards could be a comparable. We'll have to see what kind of a role Bo is in next season and his offensive numbers. I think he could do better than Richards, having already gained a year of experience as a 19 yr old. If someone does have the advanced stats and could tell a story by comparing these two players it would be interesting for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knucklehd Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I just gave an example above of Richardson staying on through 2 full shifts... there have been many of these type of things going on lately not to mention the fact that Hansen has passed the puck to Horvat exactly once so far this whole season!!! Seriously Bo is getting screwed by some of the Vets. period . Wow, that's a pretty out there statement. Time to put on that tin foil hat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 He hasn't been fantastic offensively, that's for sure. But anyone into advanced stats know what his defensive numbers have been since the start of the season? Wondering where his first year development is ranked and compared to the Patrice Bergerons and Mike Richards'. Unfortunately most advanced stats only go back to the 2007-2008 seasons so it would be difficult to compare his numbers to Bergeron or Richards. However comparing him to Toews (19) and O'Reilly (18) we can see that Horvat is being used in a much more sheltered (being given favourable zone starts and matched up against easier competition) way by the coach. Despite being used in more favourable match-ups and zone deployment Horvat has not been as successful as Toews or O'Reilly in possession numbers. In summation Horvat is one of the worst forwards on our team when looking at advanced stats so far. However that is likely to be expected by a 19 year old and he could easily improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately most advanced stats only go back to the 2007-2008 seasons so it would be difficult to compare his numbers to Bergeron or Richards. However comparing him to Toews (19) and O'Reilly (18) we can see that Horvat is being used in a much more sheltered (being given favourable zone starts and matched up against easier competition) way by the coach. Despite being used in more favourable match-ups and zone deployment Horvat has not been as successful as Toews or O'Reilly in possession numbers. In summation Horvat is one of the worst forwards on our team when looking at advanced stats so far. However that is likely to be expected by a 19 year old and he could easily improve. Which advanced stats site are you using? It's not that I don't believe you - I'm just curious. And you'd have to answer to the wrath of Rollieo Del Fuego sooner or later anyways with remarks like that anyways I know that he does get sheltered minutes and is rarely deployed for defensive zone faceoffs from watching the games, and I figured that he would not be in the same ballpark as Toews from his rookie season, but I did not expect Bo to be one of our worst forwards when looking at advanced stats. How does he fare in comparison to his linemates, Dorsett and Hansen? How about the other rookie, Linden Vey? Or Jensen, in his limited time here? Edited December 11, 2014 by Dasein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Which advanced stats site are you using? It's not that I don't believe you - I'm just curious. And you'd have to answer to the wrath of Rollieo Del Fuego sooner or later anyways with remarks like that anyways I know that he does get sheltered minutes and is rarely deployed for defensive zone faceoffs from watching the games, and I figured that he would not be in the same ballpark as Toews from his rookie season, but I did not expect Bo to be one of our worst forwards when looking at advanced stats. How does he fare in comparison to his linemates, Dorsett and Hansen? How about the other rookie, Linden Vey? Or Jensen, in his limited time here? I should have mentioned that it is early in the season (especially since Horvat has only played 16 games) and much can change. Because of the limited sample size (games played) Horvat is clumped around his linemates - Dorsett and Hansen. Vey is at the bottom with Horvat (Vey hasn't been given as easy zone starts, but he has face the easiest competition). I found a graphical display of that data for our forwards. It should make it easier to understand. Ideally a great player like Bergeron would be in the top left corner with a blue bubble, conversely a very bad (sheltered) player would be in the bottom right with a red bubble: http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage.php?f1=2014_s&f2=5v5&f3=&f5=VAN&f4=C%2BLW%2BRW&f7=10-&bubbleType=corsiRel&yAxis=qoc&update-filters=Update+Results Edited December 11, 2014 by baumerman77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I should have mentioned that it is early in the season (especially since Horvat has only played 16 games) and much can change. Because of the limited sample size (games played) Horvat is clumped around his linemates - Dorsett and Hansen. Vey is at the bottom with Horvat (Vey hasn't been given as easy zone starts, but he has face the easiest competition). I found a graphical display of that data for our forwards. It should make it easier to understand. Ideally a great player like Bergeron would be in the top left corner with a blue bubble, conversely a very bad (sheltered) player would be in the bottom right with a red bubble: http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage.php?f1=2014_s&f2=5v5&f3=&f5=VAN&f4=C%2BLW%2BRW&f7=10-&bubbleType=corsiRel&yAxis=qoc&update-filters=Update+Results Yeah of course. And the first few games where he only played 5-6 minutes make the sample size even smaller. It'll be interesting how his role evolves with this team as the season progresses and see where he is in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saucypass Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 From watching the games, Bo seemed to be okay for a 19 year old, but I'm not sold yet. I'd let him play 20-30 more games before I'd form an opinion on Bo. But so far, I'm not exactly sold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 The loan period for the WJ's is from the 12th to the 18th. Has anyone heard anything on this? I'm thinking that it could go either way now! We may need him at C. They have Gaunce on Lw now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Unfortunately most advanced stats only go back to the 2007-2008 seasons so it would be difficult to compare his numbers to Bergeron or Richards. However comparing him to Toews (19) and O'Reilly (18) we can see that Horvat is being used in a much more sheltered (being given favourable zone starts and matched up against easier competition) way by the coach. Despite being used in more favourable match-ups and zone deployment Horvat has not been as successful as Toews or O'Reilly in possession numbers. In summation Horvat is one of the worst forwards on our team when looking at advanced stats so far. However that is likely to be expected by a 19 year old and he could easily improve. You are summarizing nothing without showing us numbers... It doesn't matter anyway, what I am seeing is a kid who hasn't been able to play his game to the full extent that I have seen it and I blame it on Bo being to worried about mistakes and where he is supposed to be on the ice and getting his butt of the ice for shift change as fast as he can. In summary once Bo gets playing time you will see a much different player. Just watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Which advanced stats site are you using? It's not that I don't believe you - I'm just curious. And you'd have to answer to the wrath of Rollieo Del Fuego sooner or later anyways with remarks like that anyways I know that he does get sheltered minutes and is rarely deployed for defensive zone faceoffs from watching the games, and I figured that he would not be in the same ballpark as Toews from his rookie season, but I did not expect Bo to be one of our worst forwards when looking at advanced stats. How does he fare in comparison to his linemates, Dorsett and Hansen? How about the other rookie, Linden Vey? Or Jensen, in his limited time here? Ha! a little fire here and there never hurts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 The loan period for the WJ's is from the 12th to the 18th. Has anyone heard anything on this? I'm thinking that it could go either way now! We may need him at C. They have Gaunce on Lw now. The 18th is the last day to name someone to the roster for the WJ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 You are summarizing nothing without showing us numbers... He did.. see link in the below quote. He also says that the sample size is too small and it's too early to judge Bo at this point and that Bo will improve - which I agree with and I think most people on this board would too. I should have mentioned that it is early in the season (especially since Horvat has only played 16 games) and much can change. Because of the limited sample size (games played) Horvat is clumped around his linemates - Dorsett and Hansen. Vey is at the bottom with Horvat (Vey hasn't been given as easy zone starts, but he has face the easiest competition). I found a graphical display of that data for our forwards. It should make it easier to understand. Ideally a great player like Bergeron would be in the top left corner with a blue bubble, conversely a very bad (sheltered) player would be in the bottom right with a red bubble: http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage.php?f1=2014_s&f2=5v5&f3=&f5=VAN&f4=C%2BLW%2BRW&f7=10-&bubbleType=corsiRel&yAxis=qoc&update-filters=Update+Results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Sorry missed the link...like I said it just doesn't matter or even mean anything. As soon as Bo gets going he will be utilized properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Bo's pretty much where I expected him to be (and most people should have). He's contributing, solidifying the 4C spot and learning on the job. He's 19, he'll have some ups and downs, make some mistakes and show flashes of what he'll become. What he has shown is that he's good enough to play here IMO. He'll continue to get better the more he plays. People who are disappointed in his point totals obviously had expectations that were/are out to lunch. Edited December 12, 2014 by J.R. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I think as Bo gets more comfortable (kind of a in funk right now) - he'll play better. Offensively, struggling for sure. Has one goal (if I'm not mistaken). I still believe that he can eventually displace Richardson (though, he is having a career year thus far) as the third line centreman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I think as Bo gets more comfortable (kind of a in funk right now) - he'll play better. Offensively, struggling for sure. Has one goal (if I'm not mistaken). I still believe that he can eventually displace Richardson (though, he is having a career year thus far) as the third line centreman. The entire team playing relatively poorly the last few games on a ridiculous 7 game road trip while also fighting the injury bug does not equal "in a funk" IMO. They're all @#$%'ing tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The fact that he is in the league as a 19 year old is a good sign even if he ends up being one of our worst forwards this season. Personally, I would like to see him go to the WJC. But that won't happen unless we are health at center and even then the Canucks may keep him. I do think that the Canucks are leaning towards sending him (if the team is healthy). Benning made some comments about it a few days ago (sorry I couldn't find them) that alluded to the WJC being a very important learning experience, especially this year in Canada and to a junior "veteran" player. That kind of language coupled with Desjardins comments at the beginning of the season about the importance of confidence in young players leads me to believe they are leaning towards sending him. But perhaps I am reading too much into that. Nevertheless we can still cheer for Virtanen at the WJC (hopefully...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 In regards to going to the WJC: “For me, I would love to stay in the NHL,” he said before facing the Montreal Canadiens on Jean Beliveau Night. “That’s my No. 1 goal. If I can stay here and help this team win, that’s going to be my No. 1 priority. Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/vancouver-canucks/Canuck+notes+Benning+final+near+future/10454593/story.html#ixzz3LjvyeGjr Bo's in a great situation here -- learning the league on a winning team, playing on a line with hard-working veterans, and in a role where he's not expected or needed to produce offensively. One step at a time, production and responsibility will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlweezer Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Van falls in love w. Rookies so easily, Horvat is reaching hodgson status where people are defending him blindly. I remember when everyone wanted more ice time for hodgson even tho he didn't deserve it and had Kesler and hank ahead of him at centre.. Same w. Bo. YOu can tell he isn't ready to produce offensive yet ppl want him ahead of Richardson. Bo should be sent to WJc so he can play more than 10 min a night and develop and gain confidence. Canucks won't miss him. We can slot kassian on 3rd line wing spot and move Vey or Mathias down for 4th line c. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiboynux4lifee******* Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) I think the Rangers game will be the final game Horvat plays. If he scores 3 -2 points maybe he stays, otherwise im positive he gets sent to the World Juniors. Edited December 13, 2014 by desiboynux4lifee******* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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