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Canucks turn an embarrassment of riches in net into a flat-out embarrassment - Jason Botchford


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#91 CB007

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:25 AM

Many young fans seem to think we've made a real gain by trading Scheider. Having lived exclusively in the Luongo era they have no idea how difficult it is to come up with a great young goalie. (Some teams try for decades.) I don't imagine any of them suffered under the Cloutier era.

- a very likely scenario is that in the next year or two the Canucks suffer from bad goal tending and use a first round choice to pick a goal tender... where then will be the gain? There won't be any.


I suffered through the later Kirk Mclean, Sean Burke, Corey Hirsch, Garth Snow, Bob Essensa/Felix Potvin and Dan Cloutier eras. And believe it or not Cloutier was the most steady of them all!

In Today's NHL, grade A goalies like Luongo and Schneider are easier to find then in the 90's. There are 10 to 15 goalies out of 30 teams out there that you can call 'elite'. I somehow don't think that we will have as much difficulty finding a replacement for Luongo then we did in finding him before.

Edited by CB007, 02 July 2013 - 08:26 AM.

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#92 Guest_Pinchin_*

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:44 AM

I suffered through the later Kirk Mclean, Sean Burke, Corey Hirsch, Garth Snow, Bob Essensa/Felix Potvin and Dan Cloutier eras. And believe it or not Cloutier was the most steady of them all!

In Today's NHL, grade A goalies like Luongo and Schneider are easier to find then in the 90's. There are 10 to 15 goalies out of 30 teams out there that you can call 'elite'. I somehow don't think that we will have as much difficulty finding a replacement for Luongo then we did in finding him before.

Bwaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaaaa.......HAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAA. Cloutier was not even remotely steady. He was a spaz, he was a baby and he was as inconsistent as they come. Steady??? Not even close.

#93 nuck nit

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:54 AM

Frankly I think Eriksson is going to jump a few spots on the depth charts this year. He's really good.

This has been my hunch,as well.
Those Swedish scouts save the franchise yet again.

#94 Piezo117

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:58 AM

I suffered through the later Kirk Mclean, Sean Burke, Corey Hirsch, Garth Snow, Bob Essensa/Felix Potvin and Dan Cloutier eras. And believe it or not Cloutier was the most steady of them all!


You missed Arturs Irbe, Kevin Weekes, Martin Brochu, Johan Hedberg, and Alex Auld

#95 Nuck-Shot

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:11 AM

Botch's reputation just took a hit in my books

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#96 bongo4420

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:40 AM

You know it's a terrible move when the vice-president of the MG propganda ministry can't even refrain from leveleing criticism.

#97 BenDrinkin

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:48 AM

Beotchford

#98 BenDrinkin

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:50 AM

Bwaaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaahaaaaaaaa.......HAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAA. Cloutier was not even remotely steady. He was a spaz, he was a baby and he was as inconsistent as they come. Steady??? Not even close.


..which is exactly his point. Goalies "sucked" back then compared to now. Comprehend much?

#99 Sugar baby watermelon

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 09:54 AM

It is a bad day in the Canucks Community when 2 of Botchfords articles are at the top of the list in the Canucks Forums.

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DON'T SUPPORT THESE DOUCHEBAGS!!!!!

#100 Bodee

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:55 AM

But Bodee you may not like the reality of this but these guys are paid to sensationalize by stretching the truth and creating drama. If many of you; which I happen to think is an untrue statement rather it's just a loud minority, agree then what does that say?

Vancouver sports media is terrible because Vancouver sports is terrible. I realize there are the lions but other than that there is really only the Canucks in terms of major sports and I'm being generous even lumping the CFL in with "major" sports. The best of the best in terms of sports Journalists don't want to be in a city with little to know sports teams. These guys are the bottom of the barrel and their writing reflects that. These guys are the national enquirer of sports journalism. It's not their fault, well it is their fault but it won't change unless an NBA and or MLB team comes to Vancouver. The best thing anyone can do is look at what is written by these guys and go the other direction in terms of opinion. Real sports towns don't have to put up with this kind of thing and neither should we.


Nice reply, and you may well be right in your opinion of these writers...........however in this case I and many others think he has lucked out on this one.
You see it doesn't need a Pulitzer prize winning journalist to be able to see Gillis has really crapped the bed on the goalie and many other situations since the Finals.
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#101 Vansicle

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:01 PM

Say Lou decides to forgive and forget. He plays another season or two as the starter and plays well, proving that this is indeed his team. Then say Lack comes in to give Lou some much needed time off and he absolutely kills it. He plays so well that Torts starts him for a few games. Then imagine Lou chomping at the bit to get back in the crease but flails when given his position back. Say Lack comes back and kills it again, showing that he is indeed the real deal. Now Torts has to start Lack for a good stretch, as Lack is stacking up wins. Then, in a presser, Gillis says that Lack is the future of the Canucks. What in the hell is Lou going to do if this happens? What if Lou gets hosed again by this nincompoop Gillis? Does he get bought out? Does he get traded? Does anyone want Lou again?
If I'm Lou, I seriously consider finding a way the hell out of Vancouver for fear of never knowing where I stand. Think about it. Just three years ago Lou is made captain, given a NTC and a mountain of money. Shortly thereafter, he is pulled in favor of his back-up with the season on the line. Within a week, Lou is agreeing at least to the press to waive his NTC. Then, after holding out for way too much (admit it, he asked way too much for Lou, otherwise a lot of you wouldnt be rationalizing MG getting fleeced on the CS deal), Gillis says "there's no reasn we can finish the season with two starters . . . derp". After reality sets in, Lou actually becomes used to the idea and is fine with it. Maybe even excited to get a new start. Then, after the entire universe expects a Lou trade, CS is sent packing. Where is the stability? Where is the consistency ? Where is the logic? Sure, ou is "their guy" today. What about tomorrow? What about next month, next year? Gillis put himself above the team and got rid of the foundation of this team's future. Yes, he got some young players. Will they become NHLers? Hopefully. Was CS an NHLer? Absolutely. In fact, he for all intents and purposes, was good enough to supplant an "elite" goalie in Luongo. What Gillis did was literally trade a bird in hand for two in the Bush. And he managed to look insane in the process. At least in my eyes.
I believe Lou can play very well for this team. I believe he will be able to help this team into the playoffs consistently, but what I'm not sure of is why he would want to stay in a place that was so schizophrenic and that treated him like an extraneous part.

Snake Doctor, on 23 May 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:snapback.png

Miller is not on our list. It's Lack as our #1. There is no reason we would have traded both Schnieder and Luongo if we never intended to give Lack the #1 starting job.  Furthermore, the salary and term Miller is looking for is not in our favor.

 


#102 apollo

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:04 PM

100% gillis fault. Can this agent.
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The NHL is a fixed old boys club. I've come to acceptance with that and just watch for entertainment. The 2011 & 2012 Canucks are champs in my books.
THE CANUCKS ARE THE SINGLE, GREATEST SPORTS FRANCHISE OF ALL TIME. GO CANUCKS GO

#103 gdcanucks02

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:08 PM

I really dont understand why everyone continues to put down and chastize this team, its players, and the management. The goalie contorvery needed to be solved and it was. We had two extremely talented goaltenders and one of them had to go. So instead of buying out Lu, losing him for nothing yet still having to pay him for the next 18 years we traded Cory for the 9th overall pick in a deep draft and got a very promising, young player that gives us talent in the prospect pool.

We dont have the cap space to take on any more contracts and everyone seems to think we could take on salary when trading one of the goalies. Gillis did a very good job getting something while not taking any salary giving us more options. Remember that Luongos cap hit is only 1.3 million more than corys. so If luongo did get traded but we had to take on 1.4 million in salary then were not making better than this deal. With Ballard about to be bought out (dont agree with it but someone has to go, dont why they dont try and trade him though), we have room to sign some of our depth players and are going to have to trust that our young players (Kassian, Jensen, Gaunce, Shroeder, Corrado) are going to get a chance to make this team in meaningful roles. They have the abillity to, just need the opportunity.

Have faith in this team and support them. Go Vancouver

#104 Jai604

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:14 PM

Botchford is the Yete of Vancouver media


ahahaha

Couldn't agree more. Botchford is a ???? hack.

RIP LB RR PD


#105 chrisbanks

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:16 PM

You all hate botch
But he is right on this one.. WTf hillis

exactly , i dont like botch at all, but that doesnt mean hes wrong on this

#106 Sugar baby watermelon

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:18 PM

he is wrong and he is a f__ken idiot

#107 Mike Vanderhoek

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:18 PM

What part of one of the goalies needed to be traded does he not understand?

If we had traded Luongo for nothing or bought him out he would be writing an article complaining about that.

At least we got a valuable asset back. And last time I checked Lu is still a world class goaltender.

Having Lack and Eriksson (two of the best goalies in the AHL and SEL respectively), isn't too sshaby either.


I agree,

I don't understand why there is so much negativity by the local media here. I don't know why but had sports talk on the other night on draft day...Brooke Ward could really use a big bowl of " shutty! " so much complaining here by the media and what's real dissapointing is the misinformation by some media, I am not privy but Schneider was described as the better goaltender by his play, sorry Luongo still holds that distinction.
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#108 NuxFan09

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:38 PM

I don't particularly care for Botchford, but what part of this article is untrue guys? The whole situation really is an embarrassment.

#109 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:49 PM

Schneider was described as the better goaltender by his play, sorry Luongo still holds that distinction.


The most important measurement to use with goalies is save %. Schneider's was clearly superior to Luongo's the past two years, and Schneider's younger. The trend is likely to widen in the next seven years.

#110 apollo

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 12:53 PM

The most important measurement to use with goalies is save %. Schneider's was clearly superior to Luongo's the past two years, and Schneider's younger. The trend is likely to widen in the next seven years.


Has Cory ever played a full season? Has Cory ever played half a season even? Has Cory won more than 1 playoff game?
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The NHL is a fixed old boys club. I've come to acceptance with that and just watch for entertainment. The 2011 & 2012 Canucks are champs in my books.
THE CANUCKS ARE THE SINGLE, GREATEST SPORTS FRANCHISE OF ALL TIME. GO CANUCKS GO

#111 oldnews

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:03 PM

Beotchford


yep. Beotching as usual.

"Whether it's fondly or not, remains to be seen."

Should have shut up right there. Truth is he has no idea how Horvat will pan out.

But yeah, agree with everyone else here - he's actually the biggest embarrassment in the city.

#112 Barry_Wilkins

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:09 PM

Has Cory ever played a full season? Has Cory ever played half a season even? Has Cory won more than 1 playoff game?


Granted, he's not as polished as Martin Brodeur or Roberto Luongo. But that's not his fault, and we'll see more directly the long-term comparisons when he's put in 10 years of service. He's improved steadily over the years in a developmental workload which was engineered brilliantly by Canucks management.

The comparison between Luongo and Schneider has to incorporate many elements. I'd say starting out with save percentage over the past two years when both goalies played in front of the same players is a damn good place to start.

In addition, Schneider is technically more solid than Luongo. He positions himself well. His being younger than Lu by about 7 years doesn't hurt either. How will the comparisons be in another 4 years when Schneider is 31 and Lu about 37?

#113 SunnyHours

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

Say what you want about Botch but he knows Luu very well and despite his demeanour on the radio, I think there is truth in what he says.

#114 SamJamIam

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:13 PM

The only embarrassment here is Botchford. Having the assets to bring a top team an early pick in an amazing draft all while having the cap drop is nothing but peachy keen in my book.

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#115 snucks

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:49 PM

The problem is the idea that a team has to have a number one goalie. Its been a problem for the canucks inept management and coaches for years. What would be so wrong as to have 2 goalies and just play the guy thats hot and make sure that the other guy gets ice time when your ahead. In any case alternating goalies is not such a bad idea. There is no need to have a so called #1 unless one of the goalies is a head case. Its no wonder Vancouver is called a goalie graveyard ! Goalies don't have to be pampered. They are just another part of a team.

#116 Trebreh

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 04:17 PM

Luongo needed a fresh start with a different team. MG screwed up handling the goalie situation from day one. Luongo should've been gone the day CS was re-signed. His arrogance and ego and greed is why we were forced to trade a goaltender that was drafted by the franchise and developed for 8 years instead of the 34 yr old goaltender that's signed for 8 friggin more years.
I cannot believe how he wasn't fired along with AV after this debacle...........




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