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Gretzky or Lemieux

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#1 Bring_Back_Bertuzzi

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:27 PM

i know alot of people think of Wayne Gretzky is the most skilled player but i want to know COULD Mario lemieux been the most skilled player. I will admit wayne Gretzky is the greatest player in nhl history and that will not change but could "super mario" have been better if the circumstances were right.

1) Gretzky came into the nhl with a year in the WHA
while lemieux came in straight out of Juniors

2) Gretzky played with the oilers a team that was a dynasty
lemieux played with the no Stanley cup almost bankrupt penguins

3) Gretzky had a mostly healthy career
lemieux had spinal disc herniation, chronic tendinitis of a hip-flexor muscle, chronic back pain and Hodgkin's lymphoma causing him to play only 915 of a possible 1,428 games (many of these games being in his prime)

4) Gretzky had 2 season where he did not have more then 1 point per game (mininum of 25 games)
while lemieux only had 1 and that was the year he only played 26 games

so if Lemieux had an extra season before coming to the nhl and played for a team like today's penguins and had a healthy career could he have been "the great one"
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#2 Drouin

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:29 PM

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Lemieux
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#3 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:29 PM

your forgetting about Orr, who was the most overall skilled.
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#4 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:30 PM

1-Orr 2-Mario 3-Gretz
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#5 -Vintage Canuck-

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:31 PM

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Bobby Orr
3. Mario Lemieux

Well, that's how I see it.
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#6 Xbox

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:33 PM

He very well could! I'd put him at #2

1) Gretzky
2) Lemieux
3) Orr
4) Crosby
5) Roy
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#7 TACIC

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:35 PM

A line of Gretzky-Lemieux-Howe with them all in their primes would just be plain scary
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#8 Bring_Back_Bertuzzi

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:36 PM

your forgetting about Orr, who was the most overall skilled.

yes but he playing in a different decade of hockey while lemieux and Gretzky played around the same time so they were easily to compare
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#9 250Integra

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:37 PM

1) Lemieux
2) Gretzky
3) Orr
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#10 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:38 PM

yes but he playing in a different decade of hockey while lemieux and Gretzky played around the same time so they were easily to compare


If thats what your going for, but Orr is #1 IMO, dominated in a way neither Lemieux or Wayne did.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 29 August 2013 - 08:50 PM.

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#11 Bring_Back_Bertuzzi

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:42 PM

If thats what your going for, my Orr is #1 IMO, dominated in a way neither Lemieux or Wayne did.

ya all around orr was better but i think Lemieux and gretzky just had more skill maybe its because how the game was and still is changing idk but i just think they had more skill imo

Edited by Bring_Back_Bertuzzi, 29 August 2013 - 08:42 PM.

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#12 shiznak

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:43 PM

Gretzky had better hockey IQ then Lemieux, but wasn't as skilled as Lemieux.
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#13 Nuxfanabroad

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:47 PM

Orr winning two scoring titles as a D-man will never cease to amaze me. Drop him into the Oilers 80's team(even at centre!), he would still dominate. You can't say that Gretzky could handle the blueline, in almost any era.
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#14 Amish Rake Fighter

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:49 PM

1. Orr
2. Lemieux
3. Murzyn
4. Gretzky
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#15 Plum

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 08:55 PM

I would rather have Lemieux on my team.
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#16 Warhippy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:04 PM

If Lemieux entered the league the same time as Gretzky with a solid line mate and is healthy then this is a strong debate but there so many variables.

Mario was injured a lot and didn't always have that all star cast played his prime in the 90's

Wayne was injury free the the most part but kinda slowed down in his last three years and played through the high scoring 80's...

Mario. For me




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CIaude Giroux Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:15 PM


He's out for 6 months (which will hinder his development) and he really needs that development. There's already worries that he won't translate to the NHL and he'll end up a huge ass bust.

 

 


#17 *16*

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:10 PM

i had this argument with a friend like 15yrs ago.... sorry can't start up on this again... kinda wondering why this topic has been created.
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#18 King Heffy

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:30 PM

Lemieux made plugs into 30 goal scorers. I never saw Gretzky in his prime, but what Lemieux was able to accomplish while playing hurt is insane. Catching LaFontaine after coming back from cancer treatments and winning the scoring race is absolutely insane. Lafontaine was no slouch himself.

Biased vote goes to Super Mario.
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#19 Green Building

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:48 PM

1. Orr
2. Lemieux
3. Murzyn
4. Gretzky


:lol: I laughed.

so if Lemieux had an extra season before coming to the nhl and played for a team like today's penguins and had a healthy career could he have been "the great one"


I never had the privilege of watching Orr play hockey as I was born in '80, but I'm sure he was dynamite. The question wasn't who is the best player ever though, it was could Mario have been the Great One? For me, the bold phrase above is what it comes down to. Nothing to do with the extra year at all, Lemieux was already a supreme talent. Had he remained healthy I'm not sure there would have a single "Great One", rather, there would have been 2.

Shiznak nailed it, Gretzky had an amazing hockey IQ, Lemieux had amazing talent.

i had this argument with a friend like 15yrs ago.... sorry can't start up on this again... kinda wondering why this topic has been created.


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Edited by Green Building, 29 August 2013 - 09:51 PM.

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#20 Xbox

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:52 PM

i had this argument with a friend like 15yrs ago.... sorry can't start up on this again... kinda wondering why this topic has been created.


Then why post?
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#21 TheRussianRocket™

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:27 PM

1) Lemieux
2) Gretzky


It's how I see it.

..you got to think about it - Gretzky played with HOF teammates who were highly skilled players with or without Gretzky. Lemieux did not, well at least not as many. Lemieux while playing donated his money to help save a franchise and had all that pressure of keeping the Penguins in Pittsburgh. Gretzky had none of that except crazy amounts of cash he made from doing promotions for multiple companies and corporations; Lemieux putting that heat on his own shoulders to save a drowning franchise is guaranteed to effect you on the ice as your mind isn't there which will effect your play.

And not to mention, the injuries and cancer(s) Lemieux played through. Plain and simple, Wayne had an injury free career while Mario was Super Mario. The amount of injuries he had are countless and to put things into perspective, he was so riddled with injuries that teammates/trainers had to tie his skate laces for him before games because his back was so bad. Say what you want, but that says it all. He played with a broken body but had so much heart and passion for the game he still gave it is all and is an all time great - THE all time greatest.

A healthy Lemieux >>>>>>> Gretzky anytime, anywhere. Not even a competition. Gretzky should be happy about this cause as far as I know, Lemieux is robbed of being the GOAT hands down. The amount of games Mario missed and all the injuries he played through yet still dominated; wow.

Edited by TheRussianRocket™, 29 August 2013 - 10:36 PM.

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#22 Plum

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:29 PM

Also, battling cancer makes him a bigger fan favourite.
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#23 TheRussianRocket™

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:45 PM

I would rather have Lemieux on my team.


This just about sums it up.
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#24 Phil_314

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:50 PM

Yeah, in terms of an overall package I think a healthy Lemieux would absolutely have been above Gretzky. His skill level and vision were almost at Wayne's level (though Wayne should be undisputed as the better setup man), plus Mario had a heck of a lot more size and strength which would have allowed him to beat defenders and goalies in other ways. His main issue was that he just couldn't stay healthy. However, like others mentioned Mario did it with players who weren't always the caliber of wingers that Wayne had (understatement-- the Pens of the 2000's should ring a bell).

I wish I had the honor of watching Bobby Orr but I wasn't around then, so I won't include him in my discussion. Maybe by virtue of what he did as a defenseman, his dominance may even rank him above Wayne, but it's just speculation from me. However, my only conclusion is that I would bet that a healthy Mario would arguably have had better stats than even the Great One.
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#25 Horvat-is-Schneider

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:50 PM

Better player, Lemieux

But Lemuix's was super injury prone, so from a standpoint of having on your team? Gretzky.
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#26 How the west was won

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:01 PM

Gretzky
- 1.92 points per game
- Name meaning - those who bear the Prawdzic coat of arms (also a russian sirname so why not draft russians?)
- has the record for most points in a season 215

Lemieux
- 1.88 points per game
- Name meaning - direct translation = the best http://wiki.answers....mieux'_mean
- has the higher points per game than Gretzky in a season at 2.66 translating to 218 points in a full season


Take what you will from this.


I prefer Lemieux.

Edited by How the west was won, 29 August 2013 - 11:08 PM.

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#27 goalie13

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:08 PM

Orr
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#28 Alex Burrows 14

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:11 PM

If thats what your going for, but Orr is #1 IMO, dominated in a way neither Lemieux or Wayne did.


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#29 Lulover88

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 11:38 PM

Wayne .. .. gave it everything he had , every game .. magic .. Lemieux ... bigger , faster , as talented , was know to float once in a while .

I would take wayne .. his attitude and work ethic give him the lead in my books, though Mario may have been a better all around player ..
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#30 Primus099

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:00 AM

if Lemieux hadn't gotten sick he could have very well passed Gretzky, we'll never know.
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