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elvis15

Ronalds Kenins | LW/RW

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15 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

I'm just saying the young players in our lineup were developed somewhere else. 

I agree to a degree that the Canucks have for the most part in their existence developed poorly and drafted even worse. which is saying something about this organization. but. under Benning's regime and leadership. we've drafted better and we are developing better prospects. you need quality prospects in order to develop them into good NHL players. we hadn't drafted well. to a degree. these players are still developing. they're just developing on the big club now. 

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39 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

I'm just saying the young players in our lineup were developed somewhere else. 

I have to agree and disagree with some of your points. 

 

53 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

It's the Canuck way.  When do our young players ever get a fair chance?  I also thought Kenins looked great for us a few seasons ago, if he doesn't get a fair chance this year I will feel bad for the guy.  This team just doesn't know how to develop players.. All of our young guys are either from a different franchise (Pedan, Tryamkin, Baertschi) Or were put right in straight out of Junior/college (Horvat, Virtanen, McCann, Hutton)  We couldn't develop (Jensen, Shinkaruk, Schroeder, Grenier, Zalewski Kenins?)  The list goes on.  Gaunce might be the first actual prospect in a long time that we have actually drafted and developed through the system to be on this team, but even he is still a question mark.

Everyone praises Coach Green like he is some sort of hero but I would like to see some of his players make an impact in the NHL before we plan the parade.  To be fair, our drafting has been god awful but imo it's more about developing than it is about drafting.  

So first off, I agree that yes some of our prospects have not gotten a fair shot (Grenier, Corrado although he had plenty of opportunities, Kenins, Shinkaruk, Jensen) to name a few. Shinkaruk trade for me was a puzzling and an unnecessary move, but without it, we might have not gotten Gudbranson. We got what we could from Jensen, he didn't pan out, traded his low value for another once high prized prospect in Etem.

 

Kenins did not perform well in training camp, and Corrado was underwhelming. There were guys better than Kenins and Corrado during training camp simply put.

 

If anything, Benning is stocking up our depth and is actually having not just 1-2 guys trying to crack the roster, but at least 6-7 players trying too.. making it a competition which is good for developing our prospects. Make them hungry for that spot.

 

However, what do you mean by "that we have actually drafted and developed through the system to be on this team"? IMO, since Benning came, we've been solid at developing some of our prospects. Horvat had another year of the junior and then developed in the NHL, and I don't see anything wrong. Virtanen, McCann as well. Tryamkin had 3 years in the KHL including this year, is that not developing through the 'system'? 

 

Let's look at the college guys (drafted). Boeser, Demko, Hutton. Hutton had 3 years down in college and was developing there and made the jump to the NHL and now has a spot on the roster. Is that not developing through the 'system'? Boeser is returning for his sophomore year, and could very well possibly turn pro after, and he had a historic freshman season that's overachieved the likes of Parise, Toews, etc? He's developing. Linden said Demko will be the starter for Utica next season. He's finished/developed 2 years in college plus another 2-3 years down the minors unless he surprises heads. 

 

Might point is that right now, majority of our farm team are Gillis picks. Benning's draft picks are yet the next wave of prospects to fill up Utica. Drafting has been quite exceptional too. It's only a matter of time you see Utica filled with good quality prospects. Not that we don't have them right now in our farm team, we do.

 

It asks me the question, how do you interpret developing? What do you mean by system? The old fashioned AHL route? Because imo it doesn't matter where you develop, KHL, AHL, CHL, College, developed from another team, etc, only matters to me is how they're developing or how they've been developed. Obviously, the program also matters, but you get my idea.

 

It's only been 2 years since Benning has been here and most of the prospects he's drafted through then are going to be eligible for Utica this and next season so that's when you'll really be seeing the wave of prospects coming into Utica and that's when you'll probably be seeing the "developing through the system' you speak of which I think you mean by the AHL route. 

 

You'll start seeing the wave of prospects coming into Utica each and every year from now on.

 

 

Edited by Odd.
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20 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

It's the Canuck way.  When do our young players ever get a fair chance?  I also thought Kenins looked great for us a few seasons ago, if he doesn't get a fair chance this year I will feel bad for the guy.  This team just doesn't know how to develop players.. All of our young guys are either from a different franchise (Pedan, Tryamkin, Baertschi) Or were put right in straight out of Junior/college (Horvat, Virtanen, McCann, Hutton)  We couldn't develop (Jensen, Shinkaruk, Schroeder, Grenier, Zalewski Kenins?)  The list goes on.  Gaunce might be the first actual prospect in a long time that we have actually drafted and developed through the system to be on this team, but even he is still a question mark.

Everyone praises Coach Green like he is some sort of hero but I would like to see some of his players make an impact in the NHL before we plan the parade.  To be fair, our drafting has been god awful but imo it's more about developing than it is about drafting.  

This post is all over the place. Yes our drafting has been God awful before Benning. That has forced him to take chances with free agents like Kenins and Zalewski, and take chances with trading away draft picks for more developed prospects to fill those holes. 

 

The players are responsible for their own development and if they can't cut it, they need to be let go. That's not to say that those players will never amount to anything, but from a scouting point of view they were found lacking. 

 

Jensen never accepted that he was going to need to be a bottom 6 guy to break into the NHL... Etem does.

 

Shinkaruk is a gifted goalscorer, but he hasn't been putting the time in the gym to survive in the NHL. His arms are like pencils and he gets clobbered along the boards. Granlund has a stud NHL brother and is close to making his national team at the world championship. He's also Finnish and I truly believe that the Finnish connection was no fluke when considering our place in the draft this year. I may be reaching with this next point, but I think that is the same reason that Benning gave up a 3rd for Pedan. A bi-lingual Russian that is also huge and plays defense, who can relate and interpret for Tryamkin.

 

Benning is playing chess not checkers.

 

Schroeder still has a shot, but he's the same player that Shinkaruk is. McCann will likely prove to be better than these guys, but Guddy is a goon D-man that we had to replace Bieksa with. 

 

Grenier has an outside chance, but he's a perfect 2-way contract guy like all of the signings that were made early in free agency. If it wasn't for that flimsy stick on that breakaway we might be talking about him in a different light, but they haven't given up on him.

 

Zalewski is a dark horse this year. If he makes another step even close to the one that he made last year, he becomes a Hansen, Weise, Burrows type. I really have never seen a player that made a jump like that in 1 season. I'm going to say he becomes a very difficult player to waive next year. The best thing to do with guys like this and Grenier is to waive them early when teams haven't figured out their rosters yet. It's the reason we got Markstrom through in 2014. 

 

Kenins will need to choose between the AHL and NLA I'm guessing. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go back to Europe unless he sees a fit for a team in the minors.

 

This team is way ahead of where it was 2 years ago when Benning took over. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Odd. said:

Kenins did not perform well in training camp, and Corrado was underwhelming. There were guys better than Kenins and Corrado during training camp simply put.

Training camp is nice to get a good look at your prospects but I'd like to think that prior history is given precedence over the actual camp. If Burrows or Hansen get outplayed during training camp by a rookie who's having the week of his life, do they sit out? Does Horvat? I'm sure Kenins thought that his play of two years ago earned him a deserved extended look. At least I did. 

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5 hours ago, canuckledraggin said:

His wrecking ball style was his way into the league and it lead to his knee injury vs. the Flames in the playoffs. He never really played the same way after that. Hopefully he gets another shot in the NHL, but I think he likely bounces to the Swiss league again.

 

5 hours ago, wshdrvvn said:

I'm a fan of the guy but he wasn't the same last year.  the Kenins that bullied Chara and the Bruins did not play for the Canucks last season.

The guy was playing his life out two years ago, I don't think it's fair to set the bar that high for him in regards to every single game that he plays. If he played at that intensity an on 82-game basis, the guy would burn out in 2-3 years. 

 

He definitely wasn't the Kenins that we saw against the Bruins but I thought that he still wasn't that bad. IMO, he wasn't given a fair shot.

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59 minutes ago, guntrix said:

 

The guy was playing his life out two years ago, I don't think it's fair to set the bar that high for him in regards to every single game that he plays. If he played at that intensity an on 82-game basis, the guy would burn out in 2-3 years. 

 

He definitely wasn't the Kenins that we saw against the Bruins but I thought that he still wasn't that bad. IMO, he wasn't given a fair shot.

You're a schizo. Jake Virtanen is the exact same player, but you wouldn't have him on the Canucks no matter what. Why? Cuz he's younger?

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1 hour ago, canuckledraggin said:

You're a schizo. Jake Virtanen is the exact same player, but you wouldn't have him on the Canucks no matter what. Why? Cuz he's younger?

Because we drafted him at 6 and my expectations of him are far higher than 4th line banger.

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9 hours ago, guntrix said:

 

The guy was playing his life out two years ago, I don't think it's fair to set the bar that high for him in regards to every single game that he plays. If he played at that intensity an on 82-game basis, the guy would burn out in 2-3 years. 

 

He definitely wasn't the Kenins that we saw against the Bruins but I thought that he still wasn't that bad. IMO, he wasn't given a fair shot.

His opportunity was that of a depth forward.  he did not come in with enough intensity to earn an extended look like he got the year before.  You're right that it would wear on him quickly to play that way for a full season; I just didn't see even close to that level to earn him more minutes than what he got last year.  I still hope he gets a contract this year.

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Kenins lacked a LOT of consistency last year and was hampered by injuries. He was unwilling and/or unable to continue to play the way that got him his initial look. 

 

Too bad, I really think there's an NHL player there.

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1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Kenins lacked a LOT of consistency last year and was hampered by injuries. He was unwilling and/or unable to continue to play the way that got him his initial look. 

 

Too bad, I really think there's an NHL player there.

Agree with this 100%, especially the last part. He absolutely has the ability to play in the NHL and its mind boggling how different he was as a player. I still wonder if maybe he was coached to play a different style; the one game I saw live last year, Kenins had a bunch of opportunities where he could've really leveled guys into the glass (cleanly, too) but he just stopped up short and avoided or gently bumped them. Which ended up being a recurring theme, sadly... in his first stint, he would've delivered those hits as hard as he could.

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Kennins had a lot of injury time last year. I thought he had signed in the Swiss league. Hoping that Utica has a team that can contend for the Calder Cup with Kennins as a part of it. With all the signings his future with Van is more than iffy.

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On 7/13/2016 at 9:13 PM, guntrix said:

 

The guy was playing his life out two years ago, I don't think it's fair to set the bar that high for him in regards to every single game that he plays. If he played at that intensity an on 82-game basis, the guy would burn out in 2-3 years. 

 

He definitely wasn't the Kenins that we saw against the Bruins but I thought that he still wasn't that bad. IMO, he wasn't given a fair shot.

He came back the next year and wasn't the same player.  He looked like he thought he was on the team.  Of course you have to keep proving it over and over.  Earning a spot actually means taking it from someone else by offering more to the team.  I loved Kenins, but he definitely does need to bring it every night.

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Kenins is still a solid AHL player if he doesn't make the NHL roster. They're a ton of bodies upfront, but Kenins is worth signing. We have 44 contracts, Brisebois will slide so it's 43. Assuming we sign Pedan and Grenier, we're going to be at 45. I think we can sign Kenins at go up to 46 into the season, there's enough room for him in the middle six of the Comets' line-up.

Edited by Plum

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On 7/13/2016 at 5:18 PM, canuckledraggin said:

This post is all over the place. Yes our drafting has been God awful before Benning. That has forced him to take chances with free agents like Kenins and Zalewski, and take chances with trading away draft picks for more developed prospects to fill those holes. 

 

The players are responsible for their own development and if they can't cut it, they need to be let go. That's not to say that those players will never amount to anything, but from a scouting point of view they were found lacking. 

 

Jensen never accepted that he was going to need to be a bottom 6 guy to break into the NHL... Etem does.

 

Shinkaruk is a gifted goalscorer, but he hasn't been putting the time in the gym to survive in the NHL. His arms are like pencils and he gets clobbered along the boards. Granlund has a stud NHL brother and is close to making his national team at the world championship. He's also Finnish and I truly believe that the Finnish connection was no fluke when considering our place in the draft this year. I may be reaching with this next point, but I think that is the same reason that Benning gave up a 3rd for Pedan. A bi-lingual Russian that is also huge and plays defense, who can relate and interpret for Tryamkin.

 

Benning is playing chess not checkers.

 

Schroeder still has a shot, but he's the same player that Shinkaruk is. McCann will likely prove to be better than these guys, but Guddy is a goon D-man that we had to replace Bieksa with. 

 

Grenier has an outside chance, but he's a perfect 2-way contract guy like all of the signings that were made early in free agency. If it wasn't for that flimsy stick on that breakaway we might be talking about him in a different light, but they haven't given up on him.

 

Zalewski is a dark horse this year. If he makes another step even close to the one that he made last year, he becomes a Hansen, Weise, Burrows type. I really have never seen a player that made a jump like that in 1 season. I'm going to say he becomes a very difficult player to waive next year. The best thing to do with guys like this and Grenier is to waive them early when teams haven't figured out their rosters yet. It's the reason we got Markstrom through in 2014. 

 

Kenins will need to choose between the AHL and NLA I'm guessing. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go back to Europe unless he sees a fit for a team in the minors.

 

This team is way ahead of where it was 2 years ago when Benning took over. 

 

 

I think those who have watched Utica in the playoffs, and followed his progress over the years would agree with this statement. Zalewski has all the intangibles (size, puck skills, speed) to play a bottom six role in the NHL and is truly a crunch time performer. I am hoping he can make the a big step in point production this year. 

 

Cheers!

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