A call by Ujjal Dosanjh/others to have mandatory education for immigrants

[canuckbeliever]

Some people are going to term this as racist but I actually agree with it. People should be allowed into Canada as long as they understand certain values and are willing to follow them (ie equality for women)

Foreign-born immigrants, most of them originally from Asia, now make up 40 per cent of the population in the Metro Vancouver region. That’s nearly double that of Canada as a whole.

But it’s clear many B.C. residents are unhappy about that. They want to pull up the drawbridge and slow down both population and economic growth.

New immigrants, meanwhile, often find the Lower Mainland a hard place in which to find affordable housing, suitable work ... and to fit in socially.

There seems to be a major disconnect between newcomers and longtime residents, especially when it comes to conflicting attitudes over women’s place in society.

Veteran Vancouver immigration lawyer Richard Kurland thinks the onus should be on the newcomers to help bridge that gap.

He wants prospective immigrants to B.C. to have to sign a document stating they’ll respect Canadian values.

British Columbia, Kurland suggests, should follow the lead of Quebec and ensure newcomers fully understand Canadian and British Columbian norms of behaviour.

“Quebec has looked at this. Quebec has made the decision to require a signature from a prospective immigrant that they will abide by Quebec values,” Kurland told me.

“They are not eligible to immigrate unless that document is on file. It’s part of the immigration process.”

Kurland points out that immigrants to B.C. are only made aware of Canadian values “at the citizenship stage.” That’s seven years after they arrive here — four years before they are eligible for citizenship and a further three years until they’re processed. “That’s way too late to discover that family violence is un-Canadian,” he said.

Kurland stresses he didn’t mean to stereotype all immigrants as misogynists or polygamists. But he insists they should all be made aware in advance of the social rules of the jurisdiction to which they’re destined.

“They’re choosing a new home,” he said.

“At a minimum, you should know what the house rules look like before you sign the immigration application.”

Former NDP premier Ujjal Dosanjh, however, questions whether “signing a document means anything.” But he does believe newcomers, either before they come or after they arrive in Canada, should have to take a “mandatory course in the political culture and general mores and values of our society.”

“One comes to this country to be part of it, and if you don’t know the basic cultural and political values, then you can’t be part of it.” he said in an interview. “And that is very, very important.”

The courses should be federally mandated and funded, Dosanjh added, and should last a couple of days. “It should be institutionalized so that any new immigrant coming into this country should have to actually read and understand those values,” he said. “And that’s not to say our values are better, just that our values are different.”

The courses should also tackle the treatment of women. “I think we should specifically talk about violence against women and the equality of women and gender equality and not forcing women to have abortions for gender selection and all of those values,” said Dosanjh, a prominent moderate Sikh in Vancouver.

I agree with him. When you come to a new country, it would seem obvious that you need to understand and abide by its rules and its written and unwritten codes of behaviour.

Most newcomers try to do this. They want to fit in, as I did when I first came to B.C. more than 40 years ago. That’s why they are often among the most patriotic of Canadians, as any Canada Day celebration shows.

But immigrants also want to retain their ethnic heritage — for a host of reasons, ranging from the obvious need for companionship to help in finding a job.

Moreover, they’ve been encouraged to do so by federal multicultural policies dating back to the Trudeau era and by politicians anxious to court “the ethnic vote.”

Many still retain attitudes to females that are foreign to Canada and act in ways unacceptable to the majority of Canadians. That seems especially true if they come from Asian communities where the notion of male privilege is inculcated from an early age — and where women are expected to do the heavy lifting to help keep the extended family together.

This came to the fore in stark fashion recently in the trial of Manmeet Singh, 28, who pleaded guilty to second-degree murder in the brazen murder of his 24-year-old estranged wife Ravinder Bhangu at Surrey’s Sach Di Awaaz newspaper in July of 2011.

Reports of the trial said Singh, despairing over the separation, went over to the newspaper office where Bhangu worked and hacked and slashed her to death, claiming she’d been unfaithful to him.

According to a Surrey Now report, Crown prosecutor Chris McPherson said the “extraordinarily brutal” attack arose from Singh’s belief he was entitled to take revenge on his wife for leaving him.

In a Surrey Leader report, defence lawyer Brij Mohan was quoted as saying Singh was the product of growing up in a “misogynist culture” where women are often thought of by their husbands as property. “Nothing can justify his actions,” the lawyer said, but added it would be unfair not to mention the attitudes with which Singh was brought up.

Misogynist culture? Well, that may be harsh. But it certainly is a culture where the relationship between men and women can be very different from here. And when I asked former B.C. Attorney-General Wally Oppal about this, he pulled no punches.

“There’s no question that there’s an inordinate amount of violence against women in the Asian communities,” Oppal told me.

“And a lot of that emanates from the culture back there. Having said that, violence against women is a cross-cultural phenomenon, we know that. But there’s a disproportionate number of people in the Indo-Canadian community who are involved.”

Fortunately, Oppal said, attitudes are changing. However, there are still people here who celebrate the birth of a boy, but not that of a girl. And he is disappointed that, in recent years, so many Asian and other immigrants have moved into their own little “ghettos,” where ill-conceived views about women are perpetuated.

Oppal, a former B.C. Court of Appeal judge, said he’s always maintained one of the reasons why there’s an active gang culture in the Indo-Canadian community is that the boys are not disciplined in the family home the way the girls are: “The boys get a free hand, and so very early on they’re beyond people’s controls.”

Social worker Gary Thandi, who co-authored a 2011 report for the B.C. Justice Institute about South Asian male perpetrators of domestic violence, told me early intervention is key.

So, in my view, is a change in overall attitude among all immigrants about Canadian citizenship. They should be fully committed to it, not simply use it as a badge of convenience or source of free health care.

As former Kwantlen instructor Ray Arnold has noted, it’s time we stopped calling ourselves Chinese-Canadian, Japanese-Canadian or Italian-Canadian and just become Canadian, period.

That doesn’t mean we should not be proud of our heritage. But we should be equally or more proud to be Canadians.

And maybe we should become more insistent about ensuring those coming here are fully cognizant of that fact.

[Harbinger]

is he being an Uncle tom?

[canuckbeliever]

is he being an Uncle tom?

[aGENT]

It's sad on both counts that anything like this is even being talked about. On one hand it's sad that anyone would demand you be like them or GTFO. On the other, it's sad that anyone would need to be told that abuse etc are not acceptable and will not be condoned. But that problem exists in all cultures including our own, accepted or not.

I do think anyone hoping to immigrate here would have some level of education and/or work experience. THAT should be our biggest criteria IMO. I want positive, hard working and quality people who come and contribute to and grow our country.

[canuckster19]

I'm probably going to lower my status further after what some people think was my racist diatribe in the Annie thread.

I don't have a problem if they have a hard time assimilating, I can understand the hardships being a Canadian immigrant in Europe, what I have a problem with are the koolaid drinking, sycophant feminists and left wing eunuchs who get apologetic when they do something wrong. "Oh they're misunderstood, they don't know what they're doing" "His penis must have slipped into me officer as he tripped over my purse, it was my fault" Yeah cause robbing and raping are legal in what country?

Remember that Canadian journalist who was taken hostage in (was it Eritrea? Somalia?) she was raped for however long while her male colleague was taken care of pretty nicely. Yet all she had to say was that they are misunderstood? Really? Swedish feminist culture is plaguing itself to Canada now? God I hope not.

Pray to Vishnu, or Mecca or whatever, I don't care, but tow the legal line, one strike and you're out.

[terrible.dee]

I think you'd be singing a different song if say, you're denied entry because you're not ascribing to "Russian" values in a documented form because you don't agree with their homophobic policies.

Just sounds like a PC version of "let's instill our perfect Western values to uncivilized folks" to me. As long as laws aren't broken and personal rights aren't infringed,

[aGENT]

Yeah but if they hold misogynist views and they aren't harming anyone it's not your job to seek to change them

[Warhippy]

No one's

I don't want anyone to come up to me and tell me my views must be changed to be a proper citizen if it does no one harm (not that they align with the views in question here at all). I'm sure you wouldn't either. A society that prides itself in having no boundaries with ideas should accept that with it comes people you won't agree with. Too often I've seen people heralding free speech and thought only when it conveniences them.

[aGENT]

I nearly lost my crap yesterday when this kids smug parents were in my daughters kindergarten class trying to inform the children that Halloween is not permitted where they're from and is against their cultures beliefs and as such the class could not dress up for it.

That really didn't last long.

[RonMexico]

If you are planning to leave your current country and moving to a new one, shouldn't you want to intergrate yourself into your new home? If you have no plans to do so, why are you even leaving your current country of residence?

[Warhippy]

I really don't agree with the imperialist idea of sticking to the values of the land. You do what feels right for you, regardless of geopolitical boundaries. The herd mentality disturbs me. It's really easy for many here to say "If you want to live here then act like the people here" but the double standard is quite pathetic frankly. I can't imagine the same people being too happy about having to don burqas if they had to move to Saudi out of necessity, at which point they'll be whining about personal freedom. Why the double standard?

[Harbinger]

we need one world government so we can have all the differences we want

[Warhippy]

My problem is identifying certain practices as Canadian and alienating anyone who chooses to not follow it. I grew up in a Muslim household and I hold no emotional significance to Christmas holidays. Am I any less Canadian than your carol singing self if I choose to not follow that? Do you see where this is going? It's a very disturbing logic that runs on excluding people not in the majority even if by objective definition they are of the land.

So in a way you are imposing celebrating Halloween, Christmas etc. on people who are Canadian and choose to not adhere to it by telling others that this is the way of the land.

[HTania]

I really don't agree with the imperialist idea of sticking to the values of the land. You do what feels right for you, regardless of geopolitical boundaries. The herd mentality disturbs me. It's really easy for many here to say "If you want to live here then act like the people here" but the double standard is quite pathetic frankly. I can't imagine the same people being too happy about having to don burqas if they had to move to Saudi out of necessity, at which point they'll be whining about personal freedom. Why the double standard?

[Tom Sestito]

Completely agree with ujjal on this.

[Karlsson`s Flo]

For the most part, I agree. Immigrants need to understand society and respect that this is a new culture they are entering. That being said, if their customs and beliefs do not interfere with Canadian values and morals, we should be respectful toward their diversity.

[CBH1926]

I really don't agree with the imperialist idea of sticking to the values of the land. You do what feels right for you, regardless of geopolitical boundaries. The herd mentality disturbs me. It's really easy for many here to say "If you want to live here then act like the people here" but the double standard is quite pathetic frankly. I can't imagine the same people being too happy about having to don burqas if they had to move to Saudi out of necessity, at which point they'll be whining about personal freedom. Why the double standard?

[VICanucksfan5551]

I like your idea about doing what feels right to you.

That might work in liberal and politically correct Vancouver, but not so much in the rest of the world.

You mentioned Saudi Arabia, if a western woman does not feel she should cover her face what happens?

Do you think mutaween won't stop her and enforce their religious views?

[MANGO]

if you are coming to Canada, it is because you want to be part of Canada. Not so you can change this country into something else. Then it ceases to be Canada. Yes , you can be anything you want in your own home. Same rights every other person in this country has. But this country is already bending over backwards for immigrants, and they should feel lucky to be able to come here. What about me, euro-Caucasoid male, born and raised here. what happens to my Canada? I don't get a special interest group. I just get to pay for everyone else's.......

Not to single anyone out but. hypothetically, If you are Russian, and you are lobbing to make this country more Russian, then you should go back to Russia....because this is Canada, not Russia. Clearly, you don't like Canada as much as you like Russia, and made a mistake coming here.

[GLASSJAW]

lmao conservative people