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Great article in the UBC student newspaper about rape incidents


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#1 canuckbeliever

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:44 PM

Rarely read student newspaper articles (especially schools that are not named SFU) but this is a great read and really hammers down UBC's failure to do anything home





In response to Sauder rape cheer scandal earlier this year, the university undertook a massive internal investigation. The president of the university and other administrators made public appearances to condemn what happened. A task force was formed to look into “systemic problems” at UBC.
This was all done over a song.
The university needs to respond as robustly to the recent sexual assaults as they did to the Sauder FROSH events. They need to show they’re as serious about stopping any more women from being assaulted as they are about stopping any more first-years from hearing an offensive cheer.
There’s a tendency in the academic world to embrace attempts to tackle the complex and deep-seated problems in society. The rape cheer fell into that category, at least to the extent that pundits — and eventually administrators like UBC President Stephen Toope — saw it as a demonstration of society’s moral rot.
Fairly or not, the cheer was seen as evidence that our upstanding young people, our world’s future leaders, were behaving like vulgar misogynists.
The university was forced to take on the cheer due in part to the national media attention. But their response can also be seen in the context of academics striving to right a societal wrong.
“I think that we are given an opportunity now to seize this moment, to strike at the casual indifference to sexual violence and intolerance which still marks pockets in our society,” Toope said at the time. He added that the task force would “outline broader actions to support the kind of transformative, robust change we do believe is necessary on university campuses — including our own.”
For Toope, this wasn’t just about a handful of first-years on a bus. This was a chance for the university to lead on one of the pressing issues of our time. But while that might be a fun intellectual exercise for those involved, curriculum tweaks and consent awareness campaigns alone will not destroy rape culture at UBC, and whatever success they do have will be hard to measure.
Here’s something that’s not hard to measure: every weekend since the end of September, at least one woman has been ambushed on campus and violently sexual assaulted. Police have no suspects, nor a clear, public plan to improve security.
There are no deep moral quandaries to face, no changes needed to the curriculum, no earnest soul searching to be done. Everyone agrees that these attacks are wrong, that the person or people behind them are bad and that the correct remedy is to throw them behind bars. Sexual assaults don’t ask “big” questions of the university.

If an offensive cheer about sexual violence warranted hiring new full-time staff and creating a task force, what does the actual violent assault of student warrant?”

But here’s a question: how much money is UBC willing to devote to hiring new security personnel, or to issuing a report on how to improve security on campus? How much money is UBC willing to devote to installing better lighting or more blue emergency phones around campus?
The university had the Commerce Undergraduate Society pledge aquarter of a million dollars to fight unclear “systemic issues” following the rape cheer. That money is going to, among other things, hiring a new professional position with a similarly unclear job description.
If an offensive cheer about sexual violence warranted hiring new full-time staff and creating a task force led by the VP students, what does the actual violent assault of more than three students warrant?
It’s time for the university to show that they take these actual assaults as seriously as they took the rape cheer — even if the assaults lack the attractive intellectual questions, and even if the national media isn’t breathing down their neck.
The ball is in the administrators’ court. It’s time to make campus safe again.




http://ubyssey.ca/op...min-serious232/

Edited by canuckbeliever, 21 October 2013 - 11:45 PM.

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#2 canuckbeliever

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:58 PM

I go to UBC and I think the criticism is unfair. The last couple days before every lecture my profs have spent a decent amount of time brainstorming with the students about what to do in the case of feeling like you're in trouble (and no, what you wore had nothing to do with it). Safe Walk is a great service and as far as I can see, everyone is very vigilant. Aside from the odd joke about skirts, it's been dealt with by the students and staff very maturely on a personal level

Is there a bad allocation of resources by the administration? Absolutely. But rape culture? My ass.



I think the point of it is as much to point out the hypocricy of allocating significant amount of resources when there is a rape chant during frosh week and basically not use any resources when the construct unfortunately occurs.
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#3 canuckbeliever

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:18 AM

The underlying problem here is that UBC cares more its reputation when it becomes part of a media frenzy than self contained issues that don't get as much publicity, it has nothing to do with "rape culture", a term a lot of people love to throw around that's mostly meaningless here.


Again this is also something the article points out indirectly how UBC is not doing anything as the lights are not on.
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#4 canuckbeliever

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:24 AM

Again, completely irrelevant to this mythical rape culture that apparently needs to be destroyed on campus according to the writer



I just dont get where you are getting the rape culture thing from. I have read the article three times now. I also am running on 3 hours of sleep but I dont think thats the reason I dont get this rape culture reference because I really don't see the author going in that direction
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#5 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:25 AM

I just dont get where you are getting the rape culture thing from. I have read the article three times now. I also am running on 3 hours of sleep but I dont think thats the reason I dont get this rape culture reference because I really don't see the author going in that direction

"But while that might be a fun intellectual exercise for those involved, curriculum tweaks and consent awareness campaigns alone will not destroy rape culture at UBC, and whatever success they do have will be hard to measure."
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#6 canuckbeliever

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:27 AM

"But while that might be a fun intellectual exercise for those involved, curriculum tweaks and consent awareness campaigns alone will not destroy rape culture at UBC, and whatever success they do have will be hard to measure."


k its probably time to go to bed for me. wow lol
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#7 Tangelos

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:34 AM

Aww thought it said "Great article in the UBC student newspaper about Grape incidents"

That would have a been a worthwhile read. Was waiting for the grape incident but then I realized it was about rape... Everyone knows rape is totally not cool, unless I was being raped by Scarlett Johansson in which case I would probably enjoy it, but if I'm enjoying it, is it really rape? Hmm brain teaser for y'all.

Now I gotta google some grape articles to get over this disappointment. If I wasn't a Tangelo I'd definitely be a grape. Very underrated fruit.

Edited by Tangelos, 22 October 2013 - 12:34 AM.

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#8 SN -Admin

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:24 AM

Aww thought it said "Great article in the UBC student newspaper about Grape incidents"

That would have a been a worthwhile read. Was waiting for the grape incident but then I realized it was about rape... Everyone knows rape is totally not cool, unless I was being raped by Scarlett Johansson in which case I would probably enjoy it, but if I'm enjoying it, is it really rape? Hmm brain teaser for y'all.

Now I gotta google some grape articles to get over this disappointment. If I wasn't a Tangelo I'd definitely be a grape. Very underrated fruit.


This is a great example of how not to post here. This is nothing more than rambling, offensive idiocy. If you need to post nonsense like this hide it somewhere deep in WN, PM it to your friends, or preferably, don't post at all.

Consider this a warning.
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#9 Warhippy

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:31 AM

This is a great example of how not to post here. This is nothing more than rambling, offensive idiocy. If you need to post nonsense like this hide it somewhere deep in WN, PM it to your friends, or preferably, don't post at all.

Consider this a warning.

*Applause*
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CIaude Giroux Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:15 PM


He's out for 6 months (which will hinder his development) and he really needs that development. There's already worries that he won't translate to the NHL and he'll end up a huge ass bust.

 

 


#10 Tangelos

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:00 AM

The point of my post while not blatantly obvious is that I think this whole thing is pretty stupid. The only reason this is a "thing" right now is because a few sauder kids decided to chant something stupid and offensive. But the reality is kids say and do stupid things all the time. Just look at that kid in the states who made a dumb joke on the Internet about burning down a school and was later imprisoned for what 6 months? This is the same thing on a much smaller scale obviously, but the principle is the same. We've all seen this before where a few kids say something stupid and the media completely blows it out of proportion because that's what the media does, tries to strike fear in people. People just gotta relax. I doubt any of those sauder kids even knew they were saying something stupid at the time

Edited by Tangelos, 22 October 2013 - 10:01 AM.

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:40 AM

The point of my post while not blatantly obvious is that I think this whole thing is pretty stupid.


What whole thing? The Sauder incident? Did you even read the article? It's about more than the Sauder incident.

The only reason this is a "thing" right now is because a few sauder kids decided to chant something stupid and offensive. But the reality is kids say and do stupid things all the time.


No, it's a 'thing' right now because students are being sexually assaulted every week at UBC.

Just look at that kid in the states who made a dumb joke on the Internet about burning down a school and was later imprisoned for what 6 months? This is the same thing on a much smaller scale obviously, but the principle is the same.


This has no relevance whatsoever.

We've all seen this before where a few kids say something stupid and the media completely blows it out of proportion because that's what the media does, tries to strike fear in people. People just gotta relax. I doubt any of those sauder kids even knew they were saying something stupid at the time


Again, you seem to be missing the entire point of the article. It is about serious sexual assault at UBC and the inactivity of UBC in the face of that, perhaps due to a lack of media attention.

Your first response was not witty or connected to discussion at all. Your second response was a weak, misinformed attempt to justify the first. Please only post when you have something of value to add. PM me if you have any questions, I don't want to hijack this thread more than it has been already.
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#12 GLASSJAW

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:23 AM

The underlying problem here is that UBC cares more its reputation when it becomes part of a media frenzy than self contained issues that don't get as much publicity, it has nothing to do with "rape culture", a term a lot of people love to throw around that's mostly meaningless here.


How many chants and how many unresolved (reported) sexual assaults does it take for you to consider a campus a 'rape culture'?
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#13 taxi

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:21 PM

The underlying problem here is that UBC cares more its reputation when it becomes part of a media frenzy than self contained issues that don't get as much publicity, it has nothing to do with "rape culture", a term a lot of people love to throw around that's mostly meaningless here.


The underlying problem here is politics. Academia is now dominated by left wing liberal arts majors. By setting up a task force to deal with a chant, you provide those same people with jobs.

Actually addressing real rape would require: hiring security guards, putting up cameras, etc..basically spending money that can't go directly into the pockets of like-minded people. The people in charge of budgeting are all academic types themselves. Don't expect change anytime soon. It's a lot easier to pay someone 85+k per year plus benefits and pension to head a committee than it is to spend the same amount on a few extra security cameras or guards.
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#14 GLASSJAW

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:02 PM

I'm not where to start with this post of yours but I'll try. What is rape culture? Rape occurring? A sudden spike in assaults? If that's what it is then why aren't there designated terms like "theft culture" when there's a spike in thefts?

Rape culture is a holistic attitude in which the responsibility and blame is given to the victims and rape is seen as an occurrence that is the result of the victim not being able to take the correct precautions. And that's what's displayed by "She asked for it", girls in South Africa putting spikes between their legs and honor killings of survivors and ostracized rape victims elsewhere.

To take that dynamic and thinking and imposing it on this situation displays an incredible lack of critical thinking on your part. Do you honestly think the students were condoning rape with the chant? It was ill timed given that it was at an event where you're supposed to be a beacon of scholarly success. It would have been just as inappropriate to have frack in the chant. Your line of logic makes 90% of CDC responsible for condoning pedophilia with the Dee jokes. I guess we have "pedophilia culture".

As for unresolved cases, it's undeniable that the response by the authorities have been sub par. But is that due to bad preparation and resources or rape culture as you seem to think? They haven't been going around telling girls to not dress a certain way if they don't want to be assaulted. This isn't due to some engrained misogyny. To propose that is simply asinine.


because "rape culture" is an abstract concept, it has to be desegnated with relativity. and in this case, it would be pretty wild, maybe even unethical, to bring up other cultures as comparison or even talking points. (south africa?) so when you say "take that dynamic and thinking and impose it on our culture" what are you even talking about? you are the person who is doing that, not me, not anyone else (from what i can tell).

do you think race and cultural theorists define traditions and manifestations of racism in comparison to the holocaust?

rape culture is relative, you can only judge things based on specific cultural standards--especially when we're talking about a university

it's kind of funny to me that you would consider this "ill-timed." at what time would a song about rape better be chanted? the divinity of the timing is that it was more or less presented in public earshot, and the gesture IS, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, an absolutely hostile manifestation of "rape culture" presented casually or as a joke. either way, it doesn't matter. to answer your question about whether or not the students were condoning rape, the answer in my opinion is a boring yet obvious: well, sort of.

yes in that they were trivializing rape simply by "joking" about it, but no in that I do not consider this batch of morons to be the "beacon of scholarly success" and actually consider them to be the as5hole end of it. they are probably too stupid to know what they are saying, why they are saying it, and what the weight is of what they are saying. they are, in short, idiots.

i'm hung up on the colondee reference because i'm not sure if it works or not. on one level, it's a personal "joke" made about one specific person who we all assume to not actually be a pedophile. the joke is not about a victim, and it certainly doesn't present itself in the form of a manifesto ("we like em young"). again, context matters: the joke is made from behind the veil on anonymity where there are literally no consequences for the tameness of the joke, but it is just narrowly shocking enough to be considered within the realm of "moderately funny." on the internet, impermissible things become permissible. if someone were to make those same jokes about someone in the workplace or classroom, i'm sure there would be a very negative reception. on the other hand, you're absolutely correct: making jokes about pedophiles, regardless of the pedophile, is a trivialization of the pedophile.

yes, there are discussions about "theft culture" (re: any article or commentary or discussion about the state of piracy), violent culture (goes without saying), racist culture (again, goes without saying), and who can forget the golden nugget of sexism? again, goes without saying. whether or not these points of interest are titled "theft culture" or "violence culture" doesn't matter, they are all considerations of the more or less the same thing.

yes, there is engrained misogyny, but whether or not this is all the result of it, i don't know
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#15 GLASSJAW

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:04 PM

The underlying problem here is politics. Academia is now dominated by left wing liberal arts majors. By setting up a task force to deal with a chant, you provide those same people with jobs.

Actually addressing real rape would require: hiring security guards, putting up cameras, etc..basically spending money that can't go directly into the pockets of like-minded people. The people in charge of budgeting are all academic types themselves. Don't expect change anytime soon. It's a lot easier to pay someone 85+k per year plus benefits and pension to head a committee than it is to spend the same amount on a few extra security cameras or guards.


the university has always been about left wing liberal arts
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#16 Warhippy

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:08 PM

The underlying problem here is politics. Academia is now dominated by left wing liberal arts majors. By setting up a task force to deal with a chant, you provide those same people with jobs.

Actually addressing real rape would require: hiring security guards, putting up cameras, etc..basically spending money that can't go directly into the pockets of like-minded people. The people in charge of budgeting are all academic types themselves. Don't expect change anytime soon. It's a lot easier to pay someone 85+k per year plus benefits and pension to head a committee than it is to spend the same amount on a few extra security cameras or guards.

The underlying problem here is women are being raped and people are more concerned with setting up a committee group or body to deal with ignorant chants instead of dealing with the person(s) who are sexually assaulting young women.

Politics be damned. If it was my daughter i'd be patrolling the campus with a gun and a soldering iron

Edited by Warhippy, 22 October 2013 - 03:09 PM.

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CIaude Giroux Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:15 PM


He's out for 6 months (which will hinder his development) and he really needs that development. There's already worries that he won't translate to the NHL and he'll end up a huge ass bust.

 

 


#17 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:23 PM

What level of rape or acceptance of rape in a particular society is needed for it to be branded with the "rape culture" label? It's incredibly ill-defined to me, and it seems even a statistical aberration on a population level is enough to warrant it being called a "rape culture".
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#18 ilduce39

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:41 PM

The main connection I can see between "rape culture" and the assaults at UBC would be the sexual objectification of women.. which may certainly put extra stress on a sexually-frustrated person. (Not to mention North American media's constant portrayal of Universities as being beer fueled orgies as much as places of higher learning.) I remember reading an article when I was in high school saying Gage and Vanier were the "easiest University residences to get laid" in Canada.

While we do not condone rape, per se, we as a society may unintentionally promote it by some of these attitudes and pressures on young men to get it and young women to give it up. (Generalizing - not always specific to those gender roles of course.) Does the subconscious (or conscious) realization of this cause us to be too lenient on the perpetrators? The other effect, of course is the imposed silence or public shame on the victim.

I know in other societies / cultures "rape culture" is a lot more pronounced - but to say it doesn't exist in Canada (especially in the dorm / frat / bar scene) is a bit silly.
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#19 taxi

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:45 PM

The underlying problem here is women are being raped and people are more concerned with setting up a committee group or body to deal with ignorant chants instead of dealing with the person(s) who are sexually assaulting young women.

Politics be damned. If it was my daughter i'd be patrolling the campus with a gun and a soldering iron


Impractical and illegal revenge fantasies aside, the issue here is that UBC has spent money to hire academic committees to deal with chants. They are refussing to spend money on things like increased securtiy and cameras. My analysis was pretty apt.
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#20 GLASSJAW

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:07 PM

Impractical and illegal revenge fantasies aside, the issue here is that UBC has spent money to hire academic committees to deal with chants. They are refussing to spend money on things like increased securtiy and cameras. My analysis was pretty apt.


The academic committee was implemented in mid September, before most (if not all) of the recent sexual assault things took place. You're judging UBC based on the decision they made about sexual assault before the sexual assaults took place?

Since then, the school has not "refused" to spend money on things like increased security or cameras. They just met with members of the RCMP looking for advice, apparently.

http://www.ctvnews.c...ampus-1.1507342
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#21 Warhippy

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:11 PM

Impractical and illegal revenge fantasies aside, the issue here is that UBC has spent money to hire academic committees to deal with chants. They are refussing to spend money on things like increased securtiy and cameras. My analysis was pretty apt.

That's not a fantasy that's a fact. I apparently care enough about my daughters to willingly spend endless hours scouring an area looking for a person who may have hurt them

I won't argue at all that your analogy was incredibly apt, but the anger of a parent should never be discounted.

Se "A Time to Kill" for a solid reference.
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CIaude Giroux Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:15 PM


He's out for 6 months (which will hinder his development) and he really needs that development. There's already worries that he won't translate to the NHL and he'll end up a huge ass bust.

 

 


#22 taxi

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:44 PM

The academic committee was implemented in mid September, before most (if not all) of the recent sexual assault things took place. You're judging UBC based on the decision they made about sexual assault before the sexual assaults took place?

Since then, the school has not "refused" to spend money on things like increased security or cameras. They just met with members of the RCMP looking for advice, apparently.

http://www.ctvnews.c...ampus-1.1507342


Assaults have been an ongoing issue on UBC and other campuses for a long time. This is nothing new. And yes it's telling that they rushed to immediately form a committee to deal with immature kids making bad jokes. Meanwhile, they've done little to prevent an ongoing and escalating problem of actual assault.
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#23 ilduce39

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:46 PM

So overt sexuality and oozing hormones from both parties fall under "rape culture" too? What pertaining to genitalia doesn't fall under that now? Warts maybe?

This rape culture has strayed so far from things related to actual non consensual contact here that it's really just a fancy form of persecution complex at this point. Reminds me of this feminist Rebecca Watson who cried about being "assaulted" in an elevator by a guy who had the nerve to ask her to get coffee with him. In the words of Richard Dawkins, grow up.


To be honest, not a POV I'm used to arguing. I was just going on the broader definition of "sexual objectification" - based on my experience working at a campus bar I've seen a lot of girls being groped / pawed at when waaaay too drunk and having to sit them in the back for them to sober up / a friend to come get them. These guys wouldn't go grab a girl's bum on the bus, but in that context and those situations it is culturally a lot more "okay."

Doesn't have anything to do with the UBC situation though, I guess.

Your example is, I agree, ridiculous though and I find some "feminism" is simply man-hating... and screeching like that do much more harm than good.
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#24 taxi

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:56 PM

That's not a fantasy that's a fact. I apparently care enough about my daughters to willingly spend endless hours scouring an area looking for a person who may have hurt them

I won't argue at all that your analogy was incredibly apt, but the anger of a parent should never be discounted.

Se "A Time to Kill" for a solid reference.


Dude...everyone would be pissed in that situation, beyond belief. However, if you were walking around UBC campus threatening people with a saudering iron and a gun (it's illegal to walk around a public area with a gun), you'd be the one getting arrested. Also, what would you expect to find. These people are pieces of crap. They prey on vulnerable women. When they see a threat, they run. I'm also not sure how you expect to tell the rapists apart from everyone else at UBC.
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#25 VICanucksfan5551

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:11 PM

So overt sexuality and oozing hormones from both parties fall under "rape culture" too? What pertaining to genitalia doesn't fall under that now? Warts maybe?

This rape culture has strayed so far from things related to actual non consensual contact here that it's really just a fancy form of persecution complex at this point. Reminds me of this feminist Rebecca Watson who cried about being "assaulted" in an elevator by a guy who had the nerve to ask her to get coffee with him. In the words of Richard Dawkins, grow up.

Didn't think I'd ever hear you quoting Dawkins :P. Then again, he does seem to be in your corner when it comes to feminism.
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#26 gurn

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:14 PM

What should the university do anyway? The stupid chant thing was known to be done by uni students while the rape attacks are being done to students( and people at other places too) by person/s unknown. One thing is internal to the university the other thing is a criminal act. IMO UBC is being painted unfairly. Yes they could hire more security- and then raise tuition to cover the expense. Same thing with cameras. So where are the police in this story? Just who-other than the sick rapist is responsible for the acts of the rapists? And just who is responsible for catching the perp? Not the university-in my view. Maybe the police-that's a more likely place I think.
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#27 ilduce39

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:21 PM

I'm a 100% with you on this post for sure. One of the things I'm working on is to completely remove myself from the nightlife/dormlife/Greek scene because it's all an intricate breeding ground. The objectification by both sides is consensual at that point and if not consensual then at least expected: I know that with girls I know, if you go out with them and you DON'T get a chubby rubbed against your back randomly then you didn't really "play the field" or have as much fun as you're supposed to. Not my cup of tea.

To come back to rape culture though, I think the only place it's relevant is in the blurred lines of consent that this intricate (and in my opinion, pointless) mating ritual brings. Campus culture doesn't lead to girls being picked off streets and raped.


Yeah.. until the guy is caught you have no idea what the influence was... it could just be the best place to find young girls travelling alone after dark.

and.... on your back? You UBC kids do some weird stuff. Are they really into the basketball team?
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#28 Warhippy

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:55 PM

Fluid dynamics is sexist



Uhm well it could've just been that I got dealt the weirdest guy. I'm sure there are savvier attempts to woo. CDC men would know.

My point was it's kind of expected you get hit on if you're anything over a 4/10

4/10?

Dammit :(
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CIaude Giroux Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:15 PM


He's out for 6 months (which will hinder his development) and he really needs that development. There's already worries that he won't translate to the NHL and he'll end up a huge ass bust.

 

 


#29 Common sense

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:40 PM

the university has always been about left wing liberal arts


And that's the problem. As a result of these ivory tower dwellers, nothing will be done about this. 5 years from now, I'm sure Engineering or another faculty will come up with something new (maybe Mulan?)
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#30 GLASSJAW

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:16 AM

And that's the problem.


you're going to need to elaborate if you want this to actually mean something

the reason why sexual assault is happening at UBC is because of liberal arts education?
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