GLASSJAW Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Yes, yes it does. "Rape culture this, rape culture that... I'm not even sure if this the end result of misogyny" Okay then. that doesn't look like something i said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 backpedaling from your vague, unsubstantiated comment? either show me where i said what you're saying i said, or get your boyfriend in here to do it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I'm not where to start with this post of yours but I'll try. What is rape culture? Rape occurring? A sudden spike in assaults? If that's what it is then why aren't there designated terms like "theft culture" when there's a spike in thefts? Rape culture is a holistic attitude in which the responsibility and blame is given to the victims and rape is seen as an occurrence that is the result of the victim not being able to take the correct precautions. And that's what's displayed by "She asked for it", girls in South Africa putting spikes between their legs and honor killings of survivors and ostracized rape victims elsewhere. To take that dynamic and thinking and imposing it on this situation displays an incredible lack of critical thinking on your part. Do you honestly think the students were condoning rape with the chant? It was ill timed given that it was at an event where you're supposed to be a beacon of scholarly success. It would have been just as inappropriate to have frack in the chant. Your line of logic makes 90% of CDC responsible for condoning pedophilia with the Dee jokes. I guess we have "pedophilia culture". As for unresolved cases, it's undeniable that the response by the authorities have been sub par. But is that due to bad preparation and resources or rape culture as you seem to think? They haven't been going around telling girls to not dress a certain way if they don't want to be assaulted. This isn't due to some engrained misogyny. To propose that is simply asinine. the misogyny thing? Right there bud. Have a nice day. Or do you have yet another snarky near insulting comment to detract from your inability to proof read your work for content ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 You know you're losing when you have to resort to cheap shots but here you go. this is like pulling teeth how does that dismiss everything (or even anything) i said before it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 backpedaling from your vague, unsubstantiated comment? either show me where i said what you're saying i said, or get your boyfriend in here to do it for you Why would I have to bring up the quote for her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 You seriously cannot be asking that question. Let me spell it out for you regardless. You are against my stance that rape culture is irrelevant to the current state at UBC. And then to justify your point you write a long response which you end with saying that you aren't even sure if misogyny lead to the end result. i asked you a really simple question, which you didn't answer, and you totally misread it as being an opposition to your stance. you went so far as to assume my "line of logic" and said i lack critical thinking, no less. all of this based on my simple (unanswered) question. you mistook my question for a "point" -- i didn't think it was rhetorical at all, but however you read things is up to you my response to your weird post about "my line of logic" was largely a response to your comment, nearly point by point your selective definition of "rape culture" and your unfair comparisons (south africa) i think i responded to on their own, and are entirely unrelated to my final sentence your question about whether or not i believe the chanters all personally condone rape, or whatever, again i answered, and again, i don't think is a contradiction of my final sentence either. in fact, i think both positions sort of enforce each other. i don't feel i could take the liberty or the boldness to suggest each individuals action is a direct result of (what you call) "culturally engrained misogyny," but what i DO believe (and as i thought i said) is that the chant, AS AN ACT ITSELF, was a manifestation of the normalization and trivialization of rape (and therefore it's a manifestation of "rape culture") whether or not each chanter chose to participate in the chant, i think, could be a whole other argument with perfectly understandable and (in my humble opinion) permissible justifications, like peer pressure. if someone were singing along because they felt they had to, how can i say that their intentions were a direct result of (what you call) "culturally engrained misogyny"? i don't, so i don't think the group act is a direct representation of "culturally engrained misogyny" BUT that does not mean i do not believe that misogyny isn't an inherent part of our culture your nonpoint about theft culture, which i also commented on, is also totally irrelevant to my final sentence, and is therefore not dismissed by it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 There's enough media coverage of this by now that I doubt anyone, male or female, is going out for strolls at night on campus. So wouldn't the best chance of catching this sicko be a smokescreen of no police presence, and a few female undercovers walking around armed and mic'ed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Your initial question was asking how many unresolved cases and rape chants I needed to believe that UBC had a rape culture. In that alone you had directly asserted that rape culture and these assault cases are somehow related. I then replied saying that it is completely irrelevant and that in majority of the cases NO ONE trivializes rape. These cases aren't "unresolved" due to rape culture, the authorities aren't being lazy due to "rape culture" or any form of misogyny. Notice the whole time I was addressing how these chants and the abilities of the authority are relevant to the issue at hand, which are the assaults. So you replied with things that are independent and irrelevant to the assaults and then you close off with saying the reaction to the rapist may have nothing to do with engrained misogyny. That's a long way from your first post. my response wasn't independent and irrelevant, my response was almost entirely directed at your (no offense) sophomoric and wikipedia influenced definition of 'rape culture' and your question about my opinion on intent (whether or not i believe those people condone rape) -- i hardly responded to your footnote of a sentence about authorities and sexual assault and unresolved cases because i don't care about that, it obviously wasn't part of my curiosity. after your response to my question, i was more offended by your abuse of an abstract idea to enforce your brash opinions. i feel like my initial question was pretty nondescript, given my limited ability to stay on topic while still asking the question (i.e. saying "a campus" instead of "UBC"), but i don't believe it was a direct assertion about anything, as i don't even have an opinion on the specific sexual assaults, given the relative absence of information available. however i do think there must be questions raised about culture if a certain amount of crimes and a certain amount of chants are committed, and that is what i was asking you: at what point, if any, do you raise questions about the culture? or do you refuse the idea of 'rape culture' from the onset. you more or less answered that in your response to my question, which i was primarily interested in and obviously in objection of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverpig Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 People are calling for money to be spent, but spending money for its own sake isn't going to solve anything. Blue phone seem to me to be completely useless. The most recent assault occurred when a guy came out of a wooded area behind a girl and grabbed her without her seeing him coming. I didn't check on the two previous assaults, but the article did mention that the methods were very similar. The blue phones do nothing to protect the victim in these cases. In fact, I can't think of a practical situation where they would help. Hiring security guards? How many would you need to effectively patrol all of campus 24/7? And UBC may not have dramatically increased their spending on security recently, but they do spend money on security. There's an RCMP detachment on campus. UBC has its own security personnel. The (useless) blue phones. Safe walk. The security bus. Is there any other neighbourhood in all of BC that has that level of security? What does the author offer as a solution? Spend more money. Right. Now, I'm not at all blaming the girl, but I feel it is important to highlight that UBC has set up options for her that would have kept her safe. The security bus goes by both Totem and Vanier right? She could have called for a safe walk. She could have walked with a friend or two. For sure, she shouldn't HAVE to, and that's not at all my point - I'm just highlighting the fact that UBC-run security options exist to combat this specific problem. Campus is big. It's forested. It's quite a nice place for these reasons. It's also completely impractical to post security guards all over it 24/7. The campus itself is 400 hectares (100m x 100m = 1 ha) Posting a security guard ever 200 m would require 100 security guards. Let's say you give them $12/hr each x 24 hrs x 365 days = $10.5M a year for unloaded labour costs. If they're union, that cost will probably double. Cameras on campus everywhere? Hello big brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 why do you keep saying this the committee pre-dates the assault. how could it be exploiting something that hadn't even happened yet? jesus christ i said that before, then you made a vague comment about how there's a long history of sexual assault on campus, or something? according to the last UBC annual report, there wasn't a single sexual assault reported on campus in 2012. in the 2011 annual report, there were 2 issues of sexual assault, but one is a vague 'reporting' of a 2009 incident. In Jan of 2012 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/flasher-near-ubc-park-prompts-police-warning-1.1156142 In March of 2012 http://www.newsbcc.com/canada/canada/flasher_near_ubc_park_prompts_police_warning/60843/ 4 assaults in 2010: http://ubyssey.ca/features/sexual-assault-on-campus/ And it's not just UBC. Sexual assaults and sexual deviants are common occurrences across all university campuses. It was only a matter of time until one of these deviants ended up being vioent. another comment you made about how there was an 'rushed immediate' reaction for a committee? when there very obviously wasn't (look at the dates). the committee was a response to the idiotic, misogynistic chanting that the idiot students were singing. if you can think of a better way to educate and fix intolerance, then maybe you should be leading the university it seems to me like so many opinions in this thread are based purely around cynicism and paranoia, if not total ignorance Do we really need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire academics to form a committee? The infrastructure to discipline the idiots responsible for the chant was already in place. Everyone already knew what they were saying is wrong. In what possible way is a committee going to stop 18-20 years olds from making bad jokes? Are they going to put up some public awareness posters? I'm pretty sure everyone already knows that rape is wrong. Once again, the money could go towards stopping actual rapes. The committees are useless. They are composed of partisan academics finding ways to justify their own salaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Some Posters anonymously put up around campus "Don't be a creep! Learn how to manage your sex drive.""Make consent part of your approach.""Learn how to deal with rejection.""Recognize that many women are bombarded with sexual interest.""If you slip up, and everyone does, learn how to make amends.""Don't be a rapist! Someone walking alone is NOT an invitation for you to rape or assault." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Feminists... *facedesk* But....have a nice day, hello and would you like to get a coffee are akin to assault. Aren't they? Feminists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Feminists... *facedesk* I, for one, am glad that someone finally told people to not be a rapist... i mean, NOW they know that they shouldn't be a rapist. no one ever told them that before, and it's not like it should be common knowledge or anything. I mean men have no self control unless someone told them to have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 "If you slip up, and everyone does, learn how to make amends." what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 what. if you force it in by accident, it's ok, just say sorry and buy her some jewelry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 In Jan of 2012 http://www.cbc.ca/ne...rning-1.1156142 In March of 2012 http://www.newsbcc.c..._warning/60843/ 4 assaults in 2010: http://ubyssey.ca/fe...ault-on-campus/ And it's not just UBC. Sexual assaults and sexual deviants are common occurrences across all university campuses. It was only a matter of time until one of these deviants ended up being vioent. Do we really need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire academics to form a committee? The infrastructure to discipline the idiots responsible for the chant was already in place. Everyone already knew what they were saying is wrong. In what possible way is a committee going to stop 18-20 years olds from making bad jokes? Are they going to put up some public awareness posters? I'm pretty sure everyone already knows that rape is wrong. Once again, the money could go towards stopping actual rapes. The committees are useless. They are composed of partisan academics finding ways to justify their own salaries. first two links happened 'in a park near UBC campus' -- you think that falls under UBC's jurisdiction? you think UBC has a responsibility to monitor what I imagine to be a public park? the four incidents in the other link were gropings, which happened at various times of the day, in various conditions (including IN buildings). if you think these incidents happened because of a lack of security and not because of sociopathic horny perps, then that's up to you. how many security cameras and security guards would it take to make sure a groping does not happen? either way, i do not think a handful of sexual assaults since 2010 can justify your saying that the school has an 'ongoing problem' with sexual assault that it is now trying to exploit you saying 'the committees are useless' is vague. first of all because you've pluralized it, and second the only one we're even talking about in this thread probably hasn't even been fully established yet. 83k a year over three years isn't much money. that's 83k from the annual 1.1 billion dollar endowment. it will not give an unemployed liberal arts student a pension plan. instead, it'll probably bring in a few guest speakers, and have a handful of UBC professors clock a few extra hours to give extra lectures and provide reading material about why the school doesn't find certain things acceptable anyway, the money for the committee probably comes from the school's purse that is specifically for things like, you know, committees. if the school's campus is considered unsafe because of a lack of security, the action or inaction taken to respond to that is probably from an entirely different budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASSJAW Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 now that avelanche is in here too, this thread is going to put me into an early grave pz out yall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themcdeal Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Have all the incidents occured late night? Im on my phone and dont wanna find each article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazin! Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 This is still being talked about? There is no "rape culture" at UBC. If you think there is one, then there is a "rape culture" in all of the Lower Mainland. I attended UBC for my undergraduate degree (lived on campus for 2 years) and my graduate degree. I work in high schools. I play video games online with males of all ages. I watch videos on youtube and occasionally (sigh...) read comments. The term "rape" has just lost all meaning to the general public, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazin! Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Have all the incidents occured late night? Im on my phone and dont wanna find each article Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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